the man who shrinks from it, and avails | should prefer being committed, to giving himself of an unjust, partial acquittal, up the privilege of parliament, and promust be guilty.

mising to take no notice of a personal atLord George Germain said, that he tack, not founded upon public opinion, never was personal in the House, never upon any sentence, upon any trial, and by any conduct of his merited such an at- hearing epithets made use of against him, tack; he despised that hon. member, but which was meant as personal as they apwould level "himself with his wretched peared; he should give no other answer, character and malice; old as he was, he and abide by the decision of the House. would meet that fighting gentleman, and Several members rose, and a dispute enbe revenged. He was interrupted by a sued, whether lord George had made sufcry of Order in the House, and general | ficient apologies or not, and a motion was confusion.

made about eleven o'clock, by Mr. Buller, The Speaker said, if the House would í “ That the hon. Temple Luttrell be imsupport him, he would keep order. A mediately taken into the custody of the cry of Chair, chair.

Serjeant at Arms." Disputes continued Lord North admitted, that lord G. till past twelve, in which sir James Low. Germain had been out of order, what fell ther, sir G. Yonge, Mr. Howard, and from him had nothing to do with the others, were of opinion that the privilege question. It was a personal attack on an of parliament would suffer, if Mr. Luttrell individual, and therefore out of order. was committed upon the present facts be

Mr. Luttrell said, he would not be bul.fore the House; and drew a distinction lied out of the privilege of a member of between public and private charges. Mr. that House; he had a right to speak his Buller, Mr. Onslow, and many members sentiments publicly and fully on a public on that side, thought lord George could character. The sentence of the court- not, in honour, make further apologies, martial, in the reign of George the 2nd, and were therefore for committing Mr. was a public record, relative to a man in a Luttrell. public post of trust, which required spirit, Mr. Luttrell stood up, and said that bezeal, abilities, and integrity, and many es- ing again informed by the oldest members sential qualities, as requisite in a war mi- of parliament from every quarter of the nister as in a general. He had not alluded House, that no public business whatever to the noble lord's private vices or virtues, could go on till this altercation was setand if he could be conceived out of order, tled, and being resolved to abide, at all as to the question, it could not imply that events, by his privilege of parliament, he public charge of the minister was a private should beg leave to second the motion for personality.

his immediate commitment ; that by his Mr. Luttrell took an opportunity, in absence the House might proceed on a the confusion of debate, to attempt to get question of great importance to every miout of the House, to avoid being compelled litary man, and to the whole nation; and to promise not to resent lord George Ger- that as parliament had but a few days more main's personal abuse of him, but the to sit before its prorogation, and still more Speaker gave orders to the Serjeant at weighty affairs of state remained for their Arms, to stop Mr. Luttrell, and bring him discussion, it was necessary to discharge to his seat.

this dispute, he would make no apology for The Speaker then said, that words of public severity of language, but an apology heat having dropped from two honourable he must seek for personal insult to himmembers, in the course of the debate, he self. must require them to stand up in their Upon this, Mr. Luttrell was, between places, and give the House an assurance twelve and one o'clock in the morning, that the matter should go no farther. going to be taken into the custody of the

Lord G. Germain said, if he had said Serjeant at 'Arms, when any thing that was improper to be said in Lord George Germain rose to make a the House, he was sorry for it, and hoped second apology, which was fairly and parthe House would excuse it. He acknow. ticularly addressed to the hon. gentleman, ledged he was out of order.

for certain improper words, which the noMr. Luttrell was then called upon. He blelord had addressed to him, in the warmth said, if after being insulted for doing his of debate, and from feeling himself hurt duty, he was to be committed for deliver- by the charges stated against him. ing the sentence of George the 2nd, he Mr. Luttrell then said, that now the [ VOL. XIX. ]


House were satisfied that sufficient apology , reason for excluding strangers. This he was made for the personality they had suspected before to have been their moheard spoken against him, he should, out tives, notwithstanding the many disguises of respect to the House, comply with their they had thrown upon it, and the arowal injunctions, that it should go no further ; determined him in his conduct. He knew and begged leave once more' to observe, it to be necessary to the existence of the that what was said by him of the noble lord constitution, that the people should be acwas meant as public matter, not as private quainted intimately with the conduct of abuse or enmity.

their representatives. The news papers The previous question was put on Mr. were the only channels of conveyance, Vyner's motion, and carried without a and he declared for his own part, that if division.

such a measure was adopted, he would

dare to inform his constituents of the proADMISSION OF STRANGERS INTO THE ceedings of parliament. House of COMMONS-PublicATION OF THE Debates.] May 27. Sir P. J. Debate on Mr. Hartley's Motions for Clerke observed, that the members of that putting a Stop to the War in America-, House were very improperly treated in the And against the Prorogation of ParliaHouse of Lords, by being associated with ment.] May 27. Mr. David Hartley said: every stranger that was promiscuously in- The motion which I shall offer to you totroduced either by the peers or the door-day requires little explanation, and I hope keepers. They were obliged to stand, the House will think that it requires no and run the danger of having their pockets apology. If I thought that it could possipicked, as had in more than one instance bly admit of any debate, that the House occurred this session. Considering how before their prorogation should make a very differently the members of that House sort of recapitulation of the objects which were treated in this, he thought it became have been adopted as the ultimate end of them to assert their dignity, and establish all our labours during this session, I might a perfect equality between them. The trouble you with some arguments to induce House unanimously concurred with the your compliance. But as the system of hon. member, and hoped that in the be- conciliating America by those reasonable ginning of next session it would be a mat- concessions which we, on this side of the ter for their consideration.

House, have been many years pleading Mr. Temple Luttrell expressed his sa- for, has now been adopted by the administisfaction that the standing order, which tration themselves, I could wish to fix the had been exerted the day before to exclude sense of the House and of the public to strangers from the gallery, was again re- perseverance in the same disposition, and laxed. That circumstance induced him to that they should publish to the whole depart from the intention he had otherways world that the change in their conduct has formed, of putting every standing order not arisen from any temporary caprice, that existed, no matter how troublesome, but from a sedate and considerate review into execution. He considered it as the of past measures respecting America, and right of his constituents, that they should a firm conviction of their injustice and folly, have admission to see the proceedings of thus producing, as the fruit of that convictheir representatives, and whenever that tion, a total reversal of them. It certainly right was invaded he would, if he could may fall out, that the concessions now of not prevent, at least make them repent fered to America, may not be received as it.

they would have been some time ago, Lord Ongley complained bitterly that when we, on this side of the House, so the debates of that House should be per- strenuously contended that some offers of mitted to appear in the news-papers. "He concession and accommodation should be saw them daily misrepresented, as party made to them: that it is possible that this opinion, favour, or disgust, directed; and may happen, will be allowed by those who it was for that reason that he wished the are most sanguine in their expectations of gallery to be shut against strangers. He success from the commissioners. For my would be happy if an act of parliament own part, I am perfectly clear, that their was made totally to prevent the publica- voyage will be totally fruitless. The tion of their debates.

terms which you now offer might have Mr. Temple Luttrell replied, that now served to have brought on a treaty of acindeed they spoke out, and avowed their commodation if they had been offered

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some time ago; for instance, when the y doubt or suspicion in the minds of any noble lord at the head of the Treasury, of persons in America of their sincere desire fered what was called his conciliatory pro- for the restoration of peace, which they position, but a fallacious indecision has ac- value and prefer above all other considecompanied every measure that has been rations whatsoever ; and for which purpose taken towards the recovery of the affec- they will be ready to co-operate with his tions of America by any proceedings of Majesty in any further conciliatory meajustice or moderation. For these reasons sures which may be necessary to give efprincipally it is, that I offer this motion to ficacy to their intentions; and that it may you to-day, to signify, that you are hear- be known at the same time to all foreign tily bent upon accomplishing the great ob- powers, that the Commons of Great Briject of reconciliation ; that you value tain stand always prepared, upon all just peace above every other consideration; and necessary occasions, to resent every and if any rubs should happen in your insult, and to repel every attack upon the present plan, to declare to all the world, dignity of his Majesty's crown and upon that

you will be ready to co-operate with the national honour.” his Majesty in any further conciliatory Sir George Savile seconded the motion. measures which may be necessary to give Lord North heartily concurred in the efficacy to your pacific intentions. I motion. therefore move, “ That an humble Address Mr. Grenville thought the words “any be presented to his Majesty to represent further conciliatory measures” were very to his Majesty, that the great and impor- loose, and might be construed to include tant events which have come to the public the independency of America, which he notice since the commencement of the was not for allowing. He must therefore present session of parliament, both with wish that either those words might be torespect to the state of the American war, tally left out, or others inserted, restrainand the conduct of the court of France ing this approbation to such measures as towards Great Britain, are of the most were consonant to the act appointing comalarming nature, and call for the most missioners. speedy and prudent counsels to put a stop Earl Nugent was for having the motion to the progress of the war in America, as negatived as it stood, well as the most vigorous and decisive Lord Newhaven opposed the motion ; measures to repel any hostile attempts saying, he would never agree to it, as he from France. "To assure his Majesty that suspected independence to America lurkhis declaration at the beginning of the ing in some corner of it. That he had present session, That he should consider supported government to the best of his the restoration of peace in America as the abilities, with a view to recover America greatest happiness of his life, and the from its unhappy delusion. That he had greatest glory of his reign-is perfectly never wished to enslave America, but consonant to the dispositions of his faithful ardently wished they should continue subCommons: and tha this further declaration jects to Great Britain as free as himself, to them in the course of the present ses with the fullest exercise of all the rights sion, of his determination to maintain and of the British constitution; but that he uphold the power and reputation of this would never give a vote to render them country in respect to all foreign nations, independent, or suffer them, while the , is not less satisfactory to them, as the na- power of this country existed, to extort tional honour must ever be as dear to it by rebellion. He would be bold to say, them as it can be to his Majesty himself. that it was not in the power of the King, To represent to his Majesty, that those Lords, and Commons, to give independence two points of restoring peace in America, to one part of the British dominions to and of maintaining the national honour in the prejudice of the rest. He lamented, the sight of all foreign powers, are the that there was an end to all government nearest to the hearts of his faithful Com- in this country ; that the laws of the land mons, and that they will never relax from stood still, and that the constitution reeled pursuing them with sincerity and ardour to and fro like a drunken man. till they shall be fully and effectually ac- Sir George Savile jocosely observed, complished. That his faithful Commons that it was no wonder the constitution beg leave to express these sentiments in should reel, seeing that our administration the most public manner to his Majesty, had been drunk these four years. with this view, that there may remain no Sir W. Meredith said, that whether or

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not the motion went so far as to offer in- | improving every possible opportunity of dependence, it was a certain known truth restoring peace between this country and that it was not the interest of America to America. I am very confident, that the insist on it. The religion, language, cus- day will soon come, when the House will toms, manufactures, and laws of this coun- regret having been so touchy upon every try, would naturally invite a connection proposition that has but the shadow of between them and us. France and her | American independence. It is want of laws were odious to them. Extreme dis- prudence in the extreme to become more tress was the only tie that united America and more attached to impossibilities, in with France. The independence of Ame- proportion as they become more evidently rica would only be of service to a few of The Americans, you all know, are in the rulers. The people at large would fact independent. If you regret that insuffer by it. It was as inconsistent with dependence, you have your ministers alone their interest to desire, as it was with our to thank for that event. By their advice honour to grant it. The mean conces- and persuasion, his Majesty and this sions of ministry, he feared, would not be House have turned a deaf ear to all the accepted. Propositions of reconciliation petitions and applications from America with a people who had been so ill used, in for redress of grievances. But order to have effect, should come from at that time offer no other terms thao unmen in whom that people could have a conditional submission, the only alternaproper confidence, not from those who tive to which is independence. Your had so long harassed and deceived them. force is now, in all effect, defeated in

The friends of the motion perceiving, America. One army entire is taken prithat if the question was put, it would be

The force which remains, is so negatived, strongly solicited Mr. Hartley far from being adequate to the conquest to withdraw it: which he consented to. of America, that, I fear, it will find great

difficulty even to defend itself. The miMay 28. Mr. David Hartley rose and nisters of this country first introduced fosaid: I propose, with your permission, reign forces into the contest. The Ame. this day, to offer the following motion to ricans have now in their turn called in a the House: “ That an humble Address foreign power to their aid. We know that be presented to his Majesty, to intreat his a French fleet of 12 or 14 ships of the Majesty, that he will be graciously pleased line (and, as report says, with 3,000 land not to prorogue the parliament, but' that forces on board) has sailed these six weeks he will suffer them to continue sitting for from Toulon to their assistance. Then the purpose of assisting and forwarding see what a situation your remaining army the measures already taken for the Resto- will soon be in. The whole force of Ameration of Peace in America ; and that they rica augmenting and triumphant, against may be in readiness, in the present critical a brave, but diminished and 'deserted situation and prospect of public affairs, to army, for the ministry have taken no care provide for every important event at the

to send them sufficient succours. These earliest notice. This motion was ori. are the events which are coming upon you ginally a part, and intended to have been without delay. Let me then ask, whether subjoined to the motion which I offered this be the time to be prorogued for sumyesterday to the House; but as this pro- mer amusements; or rather ought we not, position was independent of the other, I at such a moment, to redouble our anxiety was induced to separate them, to accon- and attention, to provide “ne quid detrimodate myself to the sentiments of some menti capiat res publica." hon. gentlemen who were willing to give Another argument that I would offer to their assent to the declaratory Address, you against a prorogation is, that we may but not to the proposition of keeping the be found watchful upon our post, as the parliament any longer sitting. The per- guardians of this country, to be in readi- . son to whom I more particularly allude, is ness to receive at the earliest moment, the the noble lord at the head of the Trea. report from the commissioners, who are sury, to whom I beg leave to return my gone to offer a treaty to America. I think best thanks for his support of my motion we may be but too well assured what that yesterday, though it was ineffectual

. There answer will be. Can it be believed that a is no obligation that I could feel more nation who renounced the government of sensibly, because there is nothing that I this country, and asserted their indepenhave so much at heart as cultivating and dence even as a challenge to you two years ago, when you made the great and the alliance between France and America ? formidable attack upon them, being then Certainly not. America will be faithful without allies ; can it, I say, be conceived to her alliances. Remember at the same that the same people, having now success- time, that it is the ministry of this counfully asserted that independence, and try which has driven them into those al. being triunphantly in possession of it, liances. These points are fixed; I know with foreign alliances for their farther sup- they are. I have had some means of inport, now that your force is but little better formation authentic upon these subjects, than totally defeated, should for no reason, that I am confident I am not deceived. If and from no necessity, relinquish that as a private person, I might give an opisituation of independence, which you can- nion, I would endeavour to obtain your not wrest from them? It is an impossible consent to the following terms, as the expectation. The declaration of indepen. basis of a negociation. I have the strongest dence has not only passed in Congress, reasons to know that this country will but every province has adopted the new never get better terms of treaty. I have government of independence; and almost explained the reasons of my conviction every individual upon the continent has to his Majesty's ministers, and have laid taken the oath of allegiance to their re- before them the following heads of negospective new governments. Besides these ciation, as the result of the best opinion proofs, which I think can hardly be called and expectation, that in my opinion, the presumptive proofs, because they amount case presents: That America be declared to a certainty, we have, however, recent independent: That Great Britain and and positive proofs which lately arrived America shall agree mutually not to enter from America. I mean the resolution of into any treaty offensive to each other: the Congress of the 22d of November, That an open and free trade shall be 1777, which runs to this effect: “ Re- established between Great Britain and solved, that all proposals for a treaty be- America: That a mutual naturalization tween the King of Great Britain, or any shall be established between Great Britain of his commissioners, and the United States and America: Thąt commissioners be apof America, inconsistent with the indepen-pointed on each part, to negociate a dence of the said states, or with such trea. | fæderal alliance between. Great Britain ties or alliances as may be formed under and North America. their authority, will be rejected by Con- Sir George Savile seconded the motion. gress.” These are the considerations No person offering to answer, the Speaker which induced me to offer you the motion, was proceeding to put the question. Gewhich I did yesterday. I am confident neral Burgoyne applied to the Treasurythat you have sent your commissioners bench, to know whether the King's serupon a needless errand, and that they will vants meant to agree to the motion? In return with a refusal ; for which reason, if which case he said he should give the I could have had any influence with the House no trouble: that otherwise he House, I would have recommended to thought liimself pledged to deliver his them as a preparation for such an event, sentiments. The call was, “ Go on;" and to have come to a declaration, that, pre- General Burgoyne proceeded as folferring peace above every other conside- lows: ration, they would have been ready to co- Mr. Speaker, I shall not pursue the ar. operate with his Majesty in any farther gument of the hon. gentleman, upon the conciliatory measures, which might be expediency of parliament being ready sitnecessary to give efficacy to their pacific ting to deliberate upon the first intelliintentions.

gence that may arrive from your commisIf any man were to put the question to síoners ; that argument has already been me, what should we do in the present cir- too ably enforced to require a second: cumstances of our affairs ? if my motion neither, Sir, after so long an indulgence of this day were to be complied with, I as I received in a former debate, shall I confess I should be put to a great difficulty again press upon the attention of the to give him an answer. But this is an House the debt they owe to national jusadditional reason for taking the wise and tice and policy, upon the subject of en: prudent advice that parliament upon con- quiry : though the generals Howe and sultation might afford. The point of in- Carleton may be expected every day; and dependence is over ; do not deceive your it was upon their absence alone, that the selves upon that subject. Can you break greater part of the House seemed disposed

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