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and of the purity of every branch of judicature, a most reprehenfible and dangerous practice, tending to shake the very foundation of the authority of the house of peers and they branded it as fuch by their refolution.

The house had not fufficient evidence to enable them legally to punish this practice, but they had enough to caution them against all confidence in the authors and abettors of it. They performed their duty in humbly advising his majesty against the employment of fuch minifters; but his majesty was advised to keep thofe minilters, and to diffolve that parliament. The house aware of the importance and urgency of its duty with regard to the British interefts in India, which were and are in the utmost diforder, and in the utmost peril, most humbly requelted his majesty not to diffolve the parliament during the course of their very critical proceed ings on that fubject. His majesty's gracious condefcenfion to that request was conveyed in the royal faith, pledged to 20 thoufe of parliament, and folemnly delivered from the throne. It was but a very few days after a committee had been, with the confent and concurrence of the chancellor of the exchequer, appointed for an enquiry into certain accounts delivered to the boufe by the court of directors, and then actual ly engaged in that enquiry, that the minitters, regardless of the affurance given from the crown to an house of commons, did diffolve that parliament. We moft humbly submit to his maiefty's confideration the confequences of this 1 ir breach of public faith.

Whilft the members of the house of commons, under that fecurity, were engaged in his majel ay's and the national business, endeavours were industriously used to calumniate those whom it was found impracticable to corrupt. The repu sation of the members, and the reputation of the house itself, was undermined in every part of the kingdom.

66

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In the fpeech from the throne relative to India, we are cautioned by the minifters, to lose fight of the effect any meature may have on the constitution of our country." We are apprehenfive that a calumnious report Spread abroad of an attack upon his majesty's preroga tive by the late house of commons, may have made an impreffion on his royal mind, and have given occafion to this unusual admonition to the prefent. This attack is charged to have been made in the late parliament, by a bill which paifed the house of commons in the late feffions of that parliament, for the regulation of the affairs, for the preferuation of the commerce, and for the amendment of the government of this nation, in the East Indies.

Thau his majefty and his people may have an opportunity of entering into the ground of this injurious change, we beg leave humbly to acquaint his majesty, that, far from having made

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any infringement whatsoever on any part of his royal prerogative, that bill did, for a limited time, give to his majefty certain powers never before poffeffed by the crown; and for this his prefent minifters (who, rather than fall short in the number of their calumnies, employ fame that are contradictory) have flandered this house, as aiming at the extenfion of an unconstitutional influence in his majesty's, crown. This pretended attempt to increate the influence of the crown, they were weak enough to endeavour to perfuade his majesty's people was amongst the can les which excited his majelly's refentment again his late minifters.

Furher, to remove the impreffions of this calumay concerning an attempt in the house of commons again his prerogative, it is proper 10 inform his majesty, that the territorial poffeffions in the East Indies never have been declared, by any public judgment, act, or inftrument, or any refolution of parliament whatsoever to be the fubject-matter of his majesty's prerogative; nor have they ever been understood as belonging to his ordinacy,administration, or to be annexed or united to the crown, but that they are acquisitions of a new and peculiar defcription unknown to the ancient executive conftitution of this country.

From time to time, therefore, parliament pro vided for their government according to their difcretion, and to its opinion of what was requir ed by the public neceffities. We do not know that his majesty was entitled, by prerogative, to exercise any act of authority whatsoever in the Company's affairs, or that in effect, such authority has ever been exercised. His majelty's patronage was not taken away by that bill; becaule it is notorious that his majefty never origi nally had the appointment of a single officer, civil or military, in the Company's establishment in Ladia; nor has the leaft degree of patronage ever been acquired to the crown in any other manner or measure, than as the power was thought, expedient to he granted hy,a& of Parliament; that is, by the very fame authority by which the offices were dilpoled of and regulated in the bill, which his majesty's fervants have fallely and injuriously, reprelented as infringing upon the prerogative of the crown.

Before the year 1773 the whole administration of India, and the whole patronage to office there, was in the hands of the East India company. The Eaft India company is not a branch of his majelty's prerogative administration, nor does that, body exercile any fpecies of authority under it, nor, indeed from any British title, that does not derive all its legal validity from acts of parliament.

(To be continued.

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nefs ought have come before the Houfe in a
different manner. Upon a matter fo important
as an augmentation of the army, he would na-
turaily expect a message from the Throne
with an estimate of the expence. The Right

compact of 1769, that was accompanied by both
message and climate. He bas delivered his ef
timate with candour, bat perhaps it is not easi-
ly understood-particularly as gentlemen in this
Houfe may not be intimately versed in military
affairs. Time at all events will be neceflary for
its confideration. Mr. Grattan was much against
fo important a matter taking place, as an aug-
men ation of the army, without a fpeech from
the Throne advifing the House of it, and an ef
timate of its expence.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that it was evident from the statement he had just made that there was no extraordinary expence, or number intended. If any thing extraordinary was intended extraordinary measures would be neceffary, and the Right Hon. Gensle man would be perfectly right. Variations in the number and regulation of the army had been frequently made, without objection, although no melage from the Throne had been received, and although no eftimate of the capence, had been laid before the House.

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The Right Hon. Mr. Grattan answered, that the number was by no means clear. The Right Hon. Gentleman had only told the Houle, you fhall have expence one way, and reduction another." It was a mere matter of estimate. This he thought not what the privilege of the House demanded on an occafion of fuch importance.

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The Right Hon. Mr. Conolly obferved, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken in a very frange manner. He had told the Houle that t an augmentation, and no augmentation." The master had been prematurely preffed upon the Houle. If gentlemen were to make grants leilure fhould be allowed them to confider to what purple-for his part, that was the filt time he ever heard that the prefent measure was intended. He had the honour of propofing the These men he infilled, if raised in the regular fit augmentation, and that which, afterwards way, would coft the nation at least 22,000l. took place and he did fo, because he was firmand how widely different, he asked, was the ly convinced that the defence of the country prefent_cafe ?--Ministers, he said, had acted, required them-and because he was convinced with the utmost œconomy, fia raising a neceffary that they were indifpenfably neceffary. He connumber of men, and that without tranfgreffing.ceived however that they were men bana fide in on the original compact of s1769-he should therefore love that it was the opinion of that Committee, that 12,000 men were neceffary to be maintained in the kingdom for its defence, defence, and that 3,332 are necessary to be maintained for foreign lervice, unless in times of invation or rebellion, making the whole of the military establishment 15,332 men,..

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actual fervice.—But what was he now to fuppofe? Why 19 years after he was to understand that they had not been men in their fees, but men on paper!...

He could not avoid congratulating the Right Hon. Gentleman (Chancellor of the Exchequer) on his new appointment. From the fituation in which he had feen him the preceding night, he little imagined that he had room for other bulinets on his hands, (the Chancellor was very bu fily engaged in the Committee of Accounts) he was agreeably farpsized however to find him acting in the capacity of Secretary at War.-The idea of his Right Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Grattan) for affitting in defence of the British colonies, had his warmest fupport and most hearty concurrence. It was always his wish to fee LI

Ireland

Ireland able to affift the fifter country in preferving the remnant of her dominions that had been left; but he contended that the vote of affiltance ought to be specified by act of Parliament. It had been told after the little augmentation, another could not take place without confent of the British Parliament; and after draw ing a conclufion from the fact, mentioned the refpect that was due to the House upon a meafure like that before them, and fpoke of the jealoufy entertained in all free countries against the augmentation of the standing army. If he had had the ear of the Chief Governor, he would certainly have advised him to purfue a different mode of conduct. Our conftitution was now new and vigorous, and fuited perhaps to that treatment which would have been tolerable with an old and corrupted one.

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Mr. Parfons remarked, that none of the treaties which Great Britain had made, were laid before the Houfe, nor any documents to enable us to judge of the propriety of incresfing her forces.

The Secretary of State obferved, that a Right Hon. Gentleman had asked, why a meffage and eftimate had not been laid before the Houfe, as in 1769. He thought he could fatisfy him. In 1769, there had been a compact entered into, and that compact confifted of two parts. Twelve thousand men were judged neceffary and allotted for the defence of the country. 3220 were affigned for foreign fervice in the colonies. Now no fuch thing was intended, nor was any augmentation offered-and he fubmitted to the Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Grattan's) candour, whether a speech from the throne, and ef. timate can be faid to be necessary ?

When he had feen the Right Hon. Gentle man on the fecond bench (Mr. Conolly) rife, he really expected it was with an intention of returning thanks to the prefent Adminiftration for perfecting his own plan the augmentation of the army. He thought it highly beneficial, that for little better than 1000l. annually, the nation fhould have an increase in forces of no less than 9000 men. As to the idea of fupporting the colonies of England, these colonies he infifted were now as much the colonies of Ireland-the fame benefits, the fame liberty of trade, were held out to both countries. The advantages reFulting from thefe colonies, were reciprocally fhared between them. A vote had formerly paffed, allotting a force to affilt in protecting these colonies that affitance England declined to accept for no less than 10 years. And what did The fave to Ireland in that time? no less than 100,000l. But the faving of the money was not all. England was aware of our inability, and the borrowed our men, and the paid them herTelf. It was an act of liberal generofity, of feeling-he knew that the American war was conceived by many in this country not to be the moft proper or defenfible; and left it should cause difcontent or murmuring, the deciined availing heffelf of what our generosity had offered.

Mr. Conolly again rofe, and faid that the laft Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken as if he had bean an enemy to the augmentation-he was not. But he conceived the Houfe would act with more propriety, by maturely confidering

the business in debate. He spoke of the respect they were entitled to upon to material a point as an alteration of any thing that related to the army.

The Secretary of State rofe, and explained. Mr. Corry just role to exprefs his hearty con currence in the principle of the two Right Hon. Gentlemen near him Mr. Conolly and Mr. Grattan, that of affording fupport to England. After attending to our own national debt, and encouraging our own manufactures, he thought the affiftance of England fhould be the first ob jet of the liberal and generous difpofition of this kingdom. But he differed with his Right Hon. Friends in their other pofition, that of a message and estimate being neceffary. Had a fingle man been added beyond that prefcribed by the original compact, he thought that their idea would be juft. But what was the cafe ?-The Chancellor of the Exchequer tells you his Majesty's pleasure of modelling the army, and lays before you an eftimate of the expence. This is exceedingly fair.

His Majesty's prerogative, in this refpect, is unquestionable. This is no addition to, but a mere regulation of the army, and not at all liable to objection. Your accounts of the army differ every year, fome years the expence 490,000l. at others 500,000l. and at others more, and the Right Hon. Gentleman having gone into the detail of the increase yearly removes any caufe of objection. I therefore think that this increafe of the army, is a measure of confummate prudence, planned with judgment, and executed with economy.

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Mr. Grattan ftill continued that time was neceffary to confider a matter of fuch great importance, as a change in the army, and that change attended with expence. The Houfe was going not only to grant the fupply, but to vote the augmentation, and who would fay, that the deliberation of Parliament was not neceffary upon fuch an occafion The Right Hon. Gentleman (Chancellor of the Exchequer) had informed them, that the expence would amount to no more than 200ol. How was the Houfe to know that? By bis eftimate!How could they be certain that the expence would not be 30,000 inftead of 2000. by nothing but by his eftimate and did they think that fufficient ?-for his part, as a man tenacious of the privileges of the Houle, he did not. He defired to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman oppofite to him (Mr. Fitzherbert) whether what had been laid before the Houfe was the whole of the fyftem?-and whether any further additions were intended?

Mr. Fitzherbert replied, that the intention in making the augmentation was to keep the men on this establishment effectively up to the number ftipulated in Lord Townshend's meffage; and the conduct of Administration, in not fending a meffage, did not proceed from difrefpect to the Houle, as they confidered themselves carrying into execution the already declared fente of Parliament.

Mr. Grattan. That is not an answer to the question I propofed. I defire to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman, whether any further augmentation of the army is intended ? Mr. Fitzherbert. None whatever.

The

9

The Chancellor of the Exchequer now took notice of the very great advantage the nation had reaped from the lottery of last year, the whole benefit of which, instead of being difperf. ed in a variety of hands, had been brought forward to the public benefit, producing a fund of 50,000l. and enabling the nation to lower the intereft one-half per cent. on a very confiderable part of her debt. These benefits, he said, arofe from the circumftance of the lottery hav ing been a close lottery. He would not make any apology to the gentlemen who had been difappointed of shares in it, because he was convinced they were better satisfied to fee the good ef fect produced to the national credit, than they would have been by any little emolument that could poffibly accrue from a share.

The plan of reducing the interest on the national debt, he said, ftill continued his favourite object; and the fuccefs of last year inclined him to confider lotteries as the belt means for producing that effect. He had tried the monied people in England and in Ireland, and the propofal he was now about to mention, appeared to him infinitely the belt, amongst a great number that had been offered.

It was propofed to lead the public 400,000!. at three and a half per cent. in order to pay off a like fum, bearing intereft at four per cent. Thus finking the intereft one-eighth, and bringing a profit or annual faving of intereft to the public of 20001-so that on the one fubfcription this nation gains 50,000l.-but in addition, the propofers offers to take all the treasury bills which are due this year, amounting to a fum of 238,090l. at two-pence halfpenny per cent. per diem, making a further faving of 1816. The whole annual advantage to the public will then be 38161. equal to the interest of 95,000l. of the public debc.

Now gentlemen will fee what an advantageous bargain this is to the public-but there is fill fomething more we are offered, which I now fubmit to you; if we will give two lotteries in different years, that the fubfcribers will reduce the intereft on the whole of your loan debentures and Exchequer bills, this will make an annual faving of 89991.—that is on debentures reduced from 41. to 31. 101.-45911. and Exchequer bills from 41. to 31. 101.—4407.Thele propofals are, as I have faid, by much the best of any that have been offered in England or in Ireland, and I mention them now, that if any gentleman has any more anvantageous scheme, government may adopt it. [Paufe] After this the lottery will be difcumbered of loan, and confequently become ftill more productive; and I hope gentlemen will look upon the prefent tranfactions as the greateft effort that can be made to reduce the interest of the national debt,

Mr. Carry elofed the business of the day in a very handsome manner. He said it was but fair to oblerve, that the expences of the nation were certainly lefs by 30,000l. than in the last year, notwithstanding the increase of the military and of the civil ellablishments, which laft was the act of the former Adminiftiation he did therefore think it candid to ac

knowledge an endeavour to curtail the public expences, and a difpofition to economize.

2.) The Right Hon. Secretary Futzherbers informed the Houle, that he was commanded by his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant, to ac quaint them that his Majcity has been pleated to return a most gracious answer to the addrefs of this Houfe, which he reid in his place, and after delivered in at the table. "GEORGE R.

"HIS Majefty has received, with great fa tisfaction, the addrefs of the Houle of Commons of Ireland; their expreffions of loyalty and attachment to his Royal perion and govern ment, and their affurances of zealously contributing to the fupport of the honour of his Crown, and the general interefts of his dominions, excite fuch emotions in his Majefty's breast, as cannot fail to enfure an carneit attention to their profperity and happiness, for the advancement of which, it will always be his Majesty's defire, to fecure to his faithful and loyal subjects the bleflings of peace, and to encourage their com merce and manufactures.

"His Majefty is highly pleased with the af fectionate attention which has been paid by the Houle of Commons to the memory of their late Chief Governor, whofe public and private victues his Majefty does not doubt will long remain imprinted on the minds of his people of Ireland: however, fenfibly his Majefly may feel the lofs of fo faithful a fervant, he cannot but meet with much confolation in the fatisfaction which his people of Ireland receive in the re-appointment of the Marquis of Buckingham to the government of that kingdom, whose diligence and zeal his Majesty is perfuaded will be conftantly exerted for the promotion of fuch measures as will best tend to their interests and prosperity.

"G. R."

The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved, that an humble address be prelented to his Majefty to return our most fincere thanks to his Majetty, for his moft gracious answer to the addrefs of this Houfe, which was unanimously agreed to.

4. The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid he had lalt feffion given his ideas upon the reduction of the interest of money, in confequence of fomething that had fallen from an hon. Baronet, whom he did not then fee in his place, (Sir H. Cavendish). His opinion at that time was, that it would be most prudent to let private property take its own course, and regulate accordingly than to make an experiment on the public money, which might be attended with rifque. Experi ence had confirmed him in his opinion and the intereft of private money having gradually dimi nished of itfelf-the public property might with Lafety be placed on a fimilar footing. But he would not have it underflood, that he was authorized to mention fuch a business officially-gen tlemen, if they thought proper, might take it up, and they fhould have all the affiftance in his pow. er. It was not, however, the intention of goverement to press or agitate it further, and he Lia

gave

gave notice of it to the gentlemen who were more immediately concerned in the event.

> Mr. Stewart (Killymoon) defired to know, if an estimate was ready to lay before the houfe, of the probable expences that would follow the intended alteration of the military system a

The Right Hon. Mr. Fitzherbert replied, that as the intended regu tions went to a total alteration of the military fyftem, it could not be expected that an eftimate could be prepared fo ea-and he begged that the hon. gentleman weuld not prefs in point of time—as it would certainly be laid before the houfe in due feafon.

Mr. Stewart was fatisfied, but before he fat down, expreffed his fears, that the officers who might fuffer by the change, would not be adequately recompenfed,

Right Hon. Dennis Daly moved, that the petitioner complaining of an undue election for the county of Cavan, be ordered either by himself or bis agent, to furnish the fitting member with a return of the voters objected to on the faid election, on or before Saturday the 9th of Febru

ary.

Mr. Daly obferved, that this was nothing but what was ufaal on fimilar occafions-Ordered. 5 The committee of supply and of ways and

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6. Mr. Hartley prefcated a petition from the woolen manufacturers of this city, which he fard contained an humble application to the hon. house, that a duty should be laid on the exportation of bay yarn, when the wool arofe to an extravagant price, and that a bounty should be gi ven on its export, when the rates of the raw material fhould fall too low, each to be determined by the wildom of the legiflature, and thus the manufacturer would be enabled to give ample employment to his working people, and the woolgrower in no manner injured.

Chancellor of Exchequer faid, that every encouragement was due to this induftrious fet of people, but he feared, in a cale where the in tereft of the two countries would in any manner clath, that a duty in return might be laid on at the other fide upon fome articles of import that might be highly injurious to this country.-The petition was ordered to lie on the table for the perufal of the members.

Sir L. O'Brien propofed to lay a duty of 9. d. h. per ton on all cordage imported, not being the manufacture of Great Britain.

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Chancellor of the Exchequer defired that cordage, the manufacture of France, should also be exempted from this duty, as under the commercial treaty France was entitled to that exemption, articles made of hemp being particularly (peciAed in the tariff.

French cordage was accordingly exempted, and the refolutiod propofed by Sir Lucius O'Ben palled.

Sir F. Hutchinfon wifhed to know the terms on which the lotteries of the piclent and next year were granted. He camp ained that the moj had not beer made of the last year's lottery; that the perfons who undertook it had been ai-, lowed too much profit, and said that the reducFon of intereit on the public debt might have been Sed without any lottery at all; but if go

vernment was attached to that injurious mode of railing money, he could fee no reason why they thould not fell out the tickets in small parcels, by which a much greater profit would have accrued to the coffer of the state. He complained of the gambling fpirit introduced by lotteries, and delired again to know whether government had entered into contract for the next year, and upon what terms?

Chancellor of Exchequer faid, he was extremely glad that the hon. Baronet had thus openly made his objections to the plan for reducing the intereft on the public debt, as it gave him an op portunity of taking fome degree of credit from that tranfaction, which otherwife he would not have had the vanity to have done. No act of go. vernment in which he had been concerned, had ever had more entirely his approbation. If ever there had been a circumstance honourable to go. vernment, and advantageous to the nation, certainly this was one. He did not, he faid, expect to have heard it charged as a reproach to govern ment, that relinquishing the means of corrup tion-relinquishing the patronage which the dif

ibution of lottery tickets, amongst favouritės and dependents, naturally gave them-but which was as injurious to the public, as difgraceful to the state-relinquishing every object but the be netit of the nation, they had fairly applied the whole force of the lottery to that benefit, in it. ducing one-eight the intereft of the whole nationat debt. He thought he had aiready fufficiently explained the lottery tranfaction. From this the hon. Baronet would fee, that no fuch profit as he imagined had been made by the undertak ing. He confeffed he should be glad to fee gen

nen who, with fo much fpirit, had undertaken to negociale a prodigious Tum of money, for the state to gain fomething by their trouble, but whether they gained or did not gain was no confi• -deration to the public-all that regarded them was, whether better terms could be had from any other person or perfons; and he in the moft folema manner averred, that having perfonally, or by letter, applied to almost every monied man and company in England and Ireland, and having received a number of propofals of various kinds, there were none by any means fo advantageous to the pubic as thofe which had been agreed upon.

He obferved, that the terms had been confiderably railed upon the undertakers this year, and would be fill higher the next if they had the lottery. They had been made to pay for their own dicovery; but as to any bargain for the next year, it could be only conditional, as the event of a war would make it impoffi be for any person to give the public fuch advan tageous terms as they were enabled to give now in time of profound peace.

As to what the hon. Baronet had faid, of reducing the intereft on the national debt from 41. to 31. 10. without any benefit to compenfate the lol, he could not fee how it could be done; no man who received 41. per cent. would voluatari. ly relinquith that fum, and take 31. 10-and furely the hon. Baronet was too juit to compel by law to relinquith their property. Besides, it was impoffible to foresee what an effect fuch an act of power might produce, but through the medium of the lottery men; of their own free will con

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