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indeed, by the Indian authorities also, that it was most desirable, as far as possible, to make provision for the employment of the Natives of India; but the difficulty has been in what way it could be accomplished. When the hon. Member for Brighton brings forward the Motion for which he has given notice-that competitive examinations should be held in India

the question of the capital would soon settle itself. I caused a despatch to be prepared for the purpose of being sent to India, and submitted it to my Council; they came to a division on the subject, seven in favour and eight against my despatch; I had power by giving a double vote to have turned the scale, but I was under this difficulty-I had been in private communication with Sir John Lawrence, and II shall feel it my duty to state the reasons knew his own opinion was adverse to the change I wished to propose. He thought it would weaken the authority of the Governor General that a Governor of Bengal should be sitting by his side; and, knowing that to be the opinion of the Governor General, and that my Council were equally divided, I thought it was not a case in which it would be right for me to exercise my casting vote to direct that these steps should be taken. I thought it rather desirable that I should direct a letter to be written to the Government of India, stating the case, and asking them officially to state their views. Accordingly, I had such a despatch prepared and sent out to India. I did so with the intention of bringing the matter before Parliament, and giving this House full knowledge of what had taken place, and all the arguments used on both sides of the question. I am sorry that I have not yet got the official answers from India; but I have received privately Papers from Sir John Lawrence, and from the present Lieutenant Governor of Bengal; and what I propose to do is to lay before the House the various memoranda which have been put in, and the despatch and Papers I have sent out to India; so that the House may have before it all I have as the means for forming their opinion. But in the Bill all I propose to do is to insert a clause giving power to the Secretary of State, if he please, to erect Bengal into a Presidency, on the footing of Madras and Bombay, either with or without a Council. I do not think I need enter further into that part of the subject. There is only one other point included in the Bill which I must mention, and it is one of considerable importance and interest. I am sorry I do not see the hon. Member for Brighton (Mr. White) in his place, who has given a Notice with reference to the subject-it relates to the admission of the Natives into the Civil Service of India. It was always felt by the old Court of Directors, by the Indian Council, by all the home authorities, and,

why I cannot assent to that proposal. I do not think it would be at all suitable to the condition of India that the Civil Service should be thrown open to anybody who can pass the best competitive examination among the Natives of India; for, although I am a strong advocate for competitive examinations in this country, I do not think they apply to such a country as India, where you require, not the cleverest men, but various other qualifications which you are not so well able to test by competitive examinations. It was felt, however, that a great deal more might be done with respect to the admission of Natives. In the Uncovenanted Service there are a great many appointments that are of considerable value, and a Re turn has been presented to the House showing the number of appointments in the Uncovenanted Service held by Natives and Europeans; and it is not pleasant for me to say that the proportion is, I think, about six Europeans to one Native. The impression of myself and the Council is, that the Uncovenanted Service should be, as far as possible, a Native service, though no doubt certain appointments should be given to Englishmen. In explanation of the large proportion of Europeans in the Uncovenanted Service I may mention that appointments were given to many Europeans who rendered services during the Mutiny, and other appointments were given to the sons and relatives of old officers. Still, I feel that the Uncovenanted Service is a dangerous service for Europeans, as it affords a scope for jobbing, and we ought to confine it more to Natives than to Europeans. In addition to this, I think it desirable that we should provide some mode by which Natives should be admitted into the Covenanted Service; and I therefore propose to introduce into the Bill a clause to open, to a certain extent, a door for that purpose. At present there is an Act by which a certain number of choice appointments are reserved to members of the Covenanted Civil Service which can only

provide safeguards against reckless expenditure. We have a system which has raised the credit of India to the highest pitch, and therefore I would be the last to disturb it, and would be slow and cautious in introducing any change. Nevertheless, I repeat that in the principle of Mr. Massey's suggestions I concur. With regard to the two Bills, the objects of which I have now explained, I propose to introduce them to-night, and to name three weeks or a month hence for the second reading, and I will move for the production of those Minutes and Papers to which I have adverted. Some of these Papers are of a character that it is not usual,

less of a confidential character; but there is nothing in them which it will be objectionable to publish, and it will be for the convenience of the House that they should be in the hands of Members.

Bill to amend in certain respects the Act for the better Government of India, ordered to be brought in by Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE and Sir JAMES FERGUSSON.

Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 91.]

BANK HOLIDAYS BILL.

be entered by competitive examination in this country; but there is also, by a sec. tion of that Act, power given to the authorities to appoint other persons, provided they have resided in India a certain number of years, and have passed certain language tests. This latter provision, however, not being thoroughly effective, I propose to introduce a clause declaring that nothing in that Act shall prevent the authorities from appointing any Native of India to any post in the Covenanted Service, subject to such regulations as may appear expedient to the Governor General, and as shall be approved by the Secretary for India and the majority of his Council. Such a provision will afford a safeguard against perhaps, to produce, they being more or the powers being abused to the detriment of the Covenanted Civil Service. I propose, also, to define a Native of India as being a person born of parents habitually resident in India, and not of persons merely established there for a temporary purpose. I have now gone through all the main provisions of the two Bills, and if the House adopts them I think they may tend to improvements in the Government of India, though I am far from saying that they go to the root of the difficulties we have to deal with. We Select Committee nominated:-Sir COLMAN must consider that India is not one undi-O'LOG HLEN, Mr. STEPHEN CAVE, Mr. GoSCHEN, vided whole; and that we have to deal with PIM, Mr. HUBBARD, Viscount AMBERLEY, Mr. Mr. ROTHSCHILD, Mr. Alderman SALOMONS, Mr. an enormous variety of people in every BARNETT, Mr. WALDEGRAVE-LESLIE, Mr. PAULL, stage of development. It is desirable to Mr. LUSK, Mr. FRESHFIELD, Mr. GOLDNEY, and provide, as far as possible, the means of Mr. GRAVES :-Power to send for persons, papers, fair play among the different parts of India, and records; Five to be the quorum. and to bring about a state of things, in accordance with which there would be more of local administration, subject, however, to the general control of the Government of India. With respect to the financial relations of one part of India to another, those are questions into which it is impossible for me at the present time to enter; but they have been raised in India, and are now undergoing consideration there. Mr. Massey has proposed a scheme by which local administration and objects may be promoted by the expenditure of local funds, raised on a system of local taxation. This is a matter difficult to manage, and we must be cautious, for it is better to be a year or two too long than to be precipitate in our proceedings. However, in the general principle of Mr. Massey's proposals I cordially concur; and I hope it will not be very long before something of the kind is carried into effect. We must take care that the solidity of Indian finance is not shaken, and we must

Instruction to the Committee, to consider the propriety of discontinuing the days of grace and the practice of noting bills on the day on which they become due.-(Mr. Stephen Cave.)

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GOVERNOR GENERAL OF INDIA BILL. On Motion of Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE, Bill to define the Powers of the Governor General of India in Council at meetings for making Laws for making Laws and Regulations for certain and Regulations, and to make better provision parts of India; and for certain other purposes, ordered to be brought in by Sir STAFFORD NORTHCorE and Sir JAMES FERGUSSON.

Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 92.]

PETROLEUM ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
On Motion of Sir JAMES FERGUSSON, Bill to

amend the Act twenty-fifth and twenty-sixth Vic-
toria, chapter sixty-six, for the safe keeping of
Petroleum, ordered to be brought in by Sir JAMES
FERGUSSON and Mr. Secretary GATHORNE HARDY.
Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 93.]

House adjourned at a quarter after
Eleven o'clock.

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port, and he would then propose to fix the Committee again on Monday week.

LORD CRANWORTH thought it very necessary that, in abolishing imprisonment for debt, great care should be taken that the measure should not be made a simple means to enable a debtor to hold any property he might acquire after bankruptcy.

LORD ROMILLY said, that one of these Bills effected a serious change in the whole system of the English Law. It was proposed to be enacted that a bankrupt should be deemed guilty of misdemeanour, and be liable to imprisonment for three years, with or without hard labour, at the discre

COMPULSORY CHURCH RATES ABOLI- tion of the Judge, for certain acts, if those

TION BILL.

STATEMENT.

EARL RUSSELL said, that the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Malmesbury) had requested last night that he (Earl Russell) would be prepared to state this evening the course he intended to take on the proposal of the Government to refer the Compulsory Church Rates Abolition Bill to a Select Committee. While he confessed he had great doubts on the subject, yet, on the understanding that the principle of the Bill was not to be departed from, and that the Committee would be only for the purpose of going carefully through the details, he should not oppose

the Motion of the noble Earl. He would on another occasion state more particularly his views on the subject.

BANKRUPTCY ACTS REPEAL BILL. (The Lord Chancellor.)

(NO. 74.) COMMITTEE.

acts were done with a view to defraud cre-
ditors. The bankrupt was to be held
guilty unless he proved to the satisfaction
of a Judge and jury that he committed
the acts, perfectly innocent in themselves,
without intent to defraud. For instance,
in Part XX., sec. 365, it was enacted, that
if within four months next before adjudica-
tion the bankrupt removes any part of his
property to the value of £10, he is guilty
of a misdemeanour and liable to be impri-
soned for three years, with or without hard
labour, unless he shows to the satisfaction
of the Court and jury that he did not do
so with intent to defraud. Therefore the
bankrupt, when prosecuted under this
clause, may have his account with his
banker produced, and be called upon to
prove that any cheque drawn by him for
four months before adjudication, which ex-
ceeded £10, was not drawn for a fraudu-
lent purpose.
What answer could the
bankrupt give to vindicate himself from
such a charge? If he proposed to explain

Order of the Day for the House to be the transaction he is stopped at once; the put into Committee read.

bankrupt would not be allowed to give his THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, that evidence on oath, and unsworn evidence since the three Bills on the subject of would be held to be no evidence at all. bankruptcy (the Bankruptcy Acts Repeal Can he call witnesses and prepare his deBill, the Bankruptcy Bill, and the Judg-fence? By no means. For that purpose ment Debtors Bill) were laid before their he must employ an attorney; but he would Lordships, and had been made public, he not have the means of employing an attorhad received a number of communications ney or procuring the attendance of witwhich induced him to propose modifications nesses, as every penny would have been in various details of those measures. A taken from him by the process of banknoble and learned Lord had also given ruptcy. If Parliament were to do this, they notice of Amendments, some of which he would either enact a clause which it would be deemed to be improvements on the Bill, impossible to enforce, or they would authowhile to others he was not able to give his rize an act of the greatest possible injus assent. Under these circumstances, he tice. Such a provision, even if it should thought that the most convenient course be passed by their Lordships, would never to pursue would be to go into Committee be assented to by the House of Commons; on the Bills pro forma, with the view of and there was, besides, a great number of introducing the Amendments on the Re- other clauses of a similar character. NoVOL. CXCI. [THIRD SERIES.]

2 R

thing was more remarkable than the differ- Lordships whether, if they thought it right ence of feeling of the mercantile creditor to throw the burden of proof upon the in the abstract and in the concrete; al- debtor, his mouth should not be so far unways ready to enact clauses of the utmost sealed that he should be allowed to give cruelty against debtors generally-always his own statement of the transactions in most merciful and kind to the individual which he had been engaged. debtor who had become insolvent. The great evil of such legislation was that its tendency was to promote a system of reckless credit, instead of endeavouring, as it should do, to discourage that system, which was the principal cause of wild speculation and ultimate ruin.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, that he concurred in every word which fell from his noble and learned Friend (Lord Cranworth) with regard to the afteracquired property of the bankrupt. He thought it was very necessary they should be careful, when they were abolishing imprisonment for debt, not to hold out our bankruptcy proceedings simply as a means for a person to get what was commonly called "whitewashed." But upon that point the present Bill proceeded further than that of 1866, which made after acquired property liable if the dividend had been less than 6s. 8d. in the pound; whereas it was now proposed to make such property liable, under the direction of the Court, no matter what the proportion of the dividend might have been. With regard to the subject introduced by his noble and learned Friend the Master of the Rolls, he could assure his noble and learned Friend that the principle upon which the clauses to which he had referred were framed involved no novel principle in our criminal jurisprudence. There were many cases already in existence where the onus of proof was made by the law to rest on the person charged, that the acts charged were not the result of any criminal conduct on his part. This matter was one which had been much considered by the mercantile community; and they concurred in the view that if a person in trade was found, for example, falsifying or destroying books or removing property at particular dates, having reference to the particular circumstances of those dates, the onus should be thrown upon him of showing that he acted without any criminal or improper intention towards his creditors, and the creditors should not be left under the obligation of proving that which they could not prove-namely, what was passing in the mind of the debtor. He agreed, however, with his noble and learned Friend, that it was worthy of the consideration of their

LORD ROMILLY said, he believed it impossible for a Bill of this magnitude to be passed through Parliament in the two or three months remaining of the Session, and that it would be as well before it was proceeded with, to take the opinion of three or four well-qualified persons as to its provisions. When he had the honour of introducing the Incumbered Estates Court Bill for Ireland, he submitted his measure to a number of persons whom he knew to be hostile to it, and in that way objections were pointed out which would not otherwise have presented themselves; and he thought a similar benefit would be derived from a further discussion of this Bill out-of-doors.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR reminded his noble and learned Friend that the measure had gone fully through the very process which he advocated. A Bankruptcy Bill had been introduced and freely criticized before a Select Committee in 1866. In 1867 another Bill, profiting by that criticism, had been brought in, and had also undergone similar criticism; and the present Bill was the result of the experience derived from those two previous occasions. He had, he might add, that day had the pleasure of meeting a deputation from the Chamber of Commerce of Liverpool, who had stated to him that they highly approved of the Bill, while pointing out two or three particulars in which they desired that its provisions should be modified.

EARL GREY said, he altogether disapproved that principle of commercial morality which allowed men to launch into all sorts of speculations, and to pocket the money derived from them if they were successful, while, if they failed, only a small dividend was paid to their creditors. There ought, in his opinion, to be some modification of the old system of imprisonment, to meet the grave offences which were in those cases the result of imprudence as well as of fraud.

BANKRUPTCY ACTS REPEAL BILL [H.L.] (No. 74)-BANKRUPTCY BILL [H.L.] (No. 75) —JUDGMENT DEBTORS BILL [H.L] (No. 76) -House in Committee (according to Order); Bills reported, without Amendment;

Amendments made; Bills re-committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday the 4th of May next; and to be printed as amended.

RIOTS IN LANCASHIRE.-QUESTION.

THE EARL OF LICHFIELD asked the Government, If it be true that a large Number of Staffordshire Colliers have been forced to leave their Employment in the Coal-pits of Lancashire, in consequence of the Magistrates and Police Authorities of that county having declared their Inability to protect them from Violence and personal Injury?

THE EARL OF MALMESBURY said, he was sorry to have to state, in reply to his noble Friend, that it was true the force for protecting the persons to whom he alluded had been withdrawn, and that they had therefore been obliged to return to Staffordshire. The first intimation received by his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary of what had occurred came from a deputation of coal-owners, who called upon him yesterday morning and stated the facts. Immediate inquiry was made by the Home Office, and a Report was sent to Mr. Hardy by the Chief Constable of the place to the effect that he had not sufficient force to maintain what he had for some time maintained - the protection of those Staffordshire colliers; that the riot

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ous conduct of the pitmen had extended, and that, therefore, his force not being sufficient, he had been obliged to withdraw his men from that part of Lancashire. The same statement was made by the Mayor; whereupon Mr. Hardy telegraphed, both to the Chief Constable and the Mayor, that he expected them to obtain more assistance and to maintain the law, as it was their duty to do. Mr. Hardy further applied to the Horse Guards for an increased military force; and he understood a troop of cavalry and about 300 infantry were by this time ready to maintain peace and order on the spot. Beyond that, the Government had no information. Mr. Hardy, he might add, also communicated with the Clerk of the Peace, stating that he expected the Magistrates to use their utmost exertions to do their duty with respect to these riots.

PUBLIC PETITIONS.

Select Committee on: The Lords following were named of the Committee; the Committee to appoint their own Chairman :

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MR. GRAVES said, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, If it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to invite competition for the conveyance of the West Indian Mails on the expiration of the present Contract?

MR. SCLATER-BOOTH said, in reply, that the Government had no intention of inviting competition for the conveyance of the West Indian Mails at the expiration of the present Contract. The West India Mail Steam Packet Company had represented to the Government that it would be impossible for them to make the outlay which was necessary for the adequate performance of the service after the disastrous results of the hurricanes which occurred in the West Indies last year, unless their term were extended beyond the two years during which the Contract was to run. quest was regarded as a reasonable one and was acceded to. The terms upon which the Contract would be recommended were still under consideration, but one condition would be that the Packet Station should be removed from St. Thomas to some other place in the West Indies.

This re

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