LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, he could answer the question so far as it regarded Canada. The Governor-General of Canada had received a despatch from his right hon. Friend (Sir G. Grey), and that despatch had been laid before the Colonial Legislature; but no proposal on the subject had yet been made in the Colonial Parliament, which had adjourned before the matter could be discussed. of the changes which the Government | the Crown had the disposal of the waste intend to make in that department; the lands. offices which it was intended to abolish, and those which it was proposed either to create or substitute; together with the amount of the salaries for such new offices, and an estimate of any expenditure consequent on the proposed changes? MR. MONSELL said, in reply that if the hon. and gallant Member would refer to the Order in Council, laid on the table of the House by the command of Her Majesty, dated the 1st of June, he would find all he required with respect to his first question. With regard to the last one, he was afraid it was not possible to lay on the table an estimate of the expenditure in consequence of the proposed changes. There would be some reduction effected, and the amount of that reduction would be found by the hon. and gallant Member by comparing the salaries laid down in the Order in Council with the salaries previously paid. GRANTS OF LAND TO FOREIGN LEGIONARIES-QUESTION. LORD NAAS inquired whether the Governor-General of Canada had been requested by the Government to make an application to the Colonial Legislature for a grant of one million of acres of land, to enable Her Majesty to offer settlements to such of Her Majesty's foreign legionaries as might be willing to settle in Canada; and, if so, whether it was the intention of the Government to offer similar settlements to the officers and soldiers of Her Majesty's regular army? THE GOVERNOR OF GIBRALTAR- MR. BRIGHT after referring to the Ordinance of the 4th May issued by Sir Robert Gardiner, the Governor General of Gibraltar, prohibiting unlicensed printing, and reading an extract, declaring that it had been the custom not to permit printing in the Garrison without the consent of the authorities, and prohibiting the printing of any matter or thing not previously submitted and sanctioned by the civil secretary of the Garrison, under a penalty of not less than five nor more than a hundred dollars, and imprisonment for three months for non-payment-said that this was the assertion of a power which would be frightful if it were not ridiculous. He denied the fact that the custom referred to in the Ordinance existed; on the contrary, for the last forty years, if not longer, printing presses and printing had been allowed in Gibraltar; and a year ago, when a deputation from thence waited upon the Duke of Newcastle, and complained amongst other grievances of the want of newspapers, MR. FREDERICK PEEL replied that the Duke, who received them with great there was no intention of altering the courtesy, said he saw no reason why there arrangements regarding the grants of land should not be another newspaper in Gibas an inducement to persons to enlist in raltar, or why freedom of the press should the regular army. There was no resem- not exist there as far as was consistent blance between soldiers enlisted for a long with the purposes of this country in mainperiod and foreign legionaries merely enlist-taining a garrison at Gibraltar. At Malta ed for the period of the war or until dis- there was more than one newspaper pubbanded. No offer of land had been made lished, and considerable if not complete to the Swiss or German legionaries for the freedom of the press was allowed; and he purpose of inducing them to enlist; but a (Mr. Bright) saw no reason why Gibraltar suggestion had been made to the Governor- should be treated differently. He underGeneral of Canada to the effect that it would stood that Sir Robert Gardiner had been facilitate enlistment if such an offer of land recalled, and that measures were in proin Canada were made. He was not aware, gress for the purpose of appointing some however that any Act had been passed by more judicious person to the office; and the colonial Parliament for this purpose. what he now wanted to know was whether With respect to officers in the army, it was the noble Lord, the Colonial Secretary, already arranged, with a view to their had sent out directions for cancelling the settlement in the Colonies, that an abate- ordinance and placing the press of Gibment should be made in the price of the raltar on a more satisfactory footing. purchase of land in those Colonies in which (Mr. Bright) had received a memorial from He 2035 The late Members of the {COMMONS} Government-Alleged 2036 a printer of Gibraltar, which he had not yet had an opportunity of presenting, complaining that he had been ruined by the conduct of Sir Robert Gardiner. had not been explained. It might be useful to the inhabitants of Gibraltar to have a newspaper containing commercial information; but the Governor, who was the commander of the fortress, and was responsible for its safety, should have the power of saying when he would permit and when he would restrict the publication of newspapers. THE LATE MEMBERS OF THE GOVERN MENT-ALLEGED STIPULATIONS AS TO LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, he had had time since he last addressed the House on the subject to examine the ordinance passed by Sir Robert Gardiner in reference to unlicensed printing. In the first place it was entirely competent for the Governor MR. BRIGHT complained that the of Gibraltar to pass such an ordinance noble Lord had not answered his question. without consulting the home authorities in What he wanted to know was whether the all cases where he might consider the noble Lord would cancel the ordinance, and safety of the garrison demanded it; but if he would give a distinct answer to that there were certain restrictions placed upon question he (Mr. Bright) would be satisfied. his general powers of issuing ordinances; LORD JOHN RUSSELL: No, I shall he, however, had full power to issue any not give any distinct answer to that quesordinance he might consider necessary tion. A despatch on the subject has been for the safety of the garrison, and it rested written to the Governor of Gibraltar, entirely with him to say when that safety which I propose to lay on the table. was endangered. Such was the power the Governor of Gibraltar possessed, and that power he thought it would be most unwise to abolish or to restrict. If that were to happen again which had happened in former times, viz., that the fortress of Gibraltar-and it was nothing more than a fortress-should be besieged, great danger might result from a person being permitted to print a newspaper containing information as to the state of the garrison, its weak points of defence, the quantity of ammunition in the garrison, the number of guns fit for service, and the position of the powder magazine; and the Governor would not merely be justified, but it would be his duty, to stop the publication of such a newspaper. But with regard to the discretion exercised by the Governor of Gibraltar in the present instance, he owned that it did not appear to him that there was any urgent necessity for issuing so peremptory an ordinance without going through the usual form. In 1841, when he (Lord John Russell) was Secretary for the Colonies, and the question was brought before him whether the Governor should permit a newspaper to be printed, he advised him not to prevent the publication of newspapers in the Garrison, and not to issue any ordinance on the subject. In reference to the opinion of the Duke of Newcastle, to which the hon. Member had referred, it appeared that his opinion was asked as to whether a second newspaper might be allowed, and he said that he saw no objection provided it was under proper control; but what the meaning of the term "proper control' was, and what the nature and extent of the restraint which should be placed upon the press should be, MR. OTWAY: I rise to ask the noble Lord at the head of the Government the question of which I have given notice, and though I am anxious not to delay the interesting discussion about to take place, still, after having formally given notice of my question, I feel bound to ask it. The noble Viscount has stated in the House, that in February last certain right hon. Gentlemen, who were lately eminent Members of his Government, stipulated as to the conditions of peace, and more espe cially as to one which should be asked of Russia. I should be trifling with the House to suppose that those stipulations could have been made with any other view than that of favouring Russia; for those who have had the pain of listening to the speeches of the right hon. Members for Carlisle and the University of Oxford (Sir James Graham and Mr. Gladstone) must be aware that any stipulations as to the conditions of peace made by them could have had no other object than that of being favourable to our enemy. MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I rise to order. You have heard the language which has fallen from the hon. Member. He has stated, that nothing stated or stipulated by my right hon. Friend or by myself with reference to the terms of peace could have had any object but that of being favourable to our enemy. I put it to you, Sir, whether that language is such as falls within the rules of discussion in this House? MR. SPEAKER: It is not within the rules, for it is attributing to hon. Members that which is treasonable. from the Government of the noble Lord, and the fatal influence which they exercised with regard to the conduct of the war no longer paralyses his actions. I will ask the noble Viscount-and I do it in no spirit of hostility, but because I think that, after the statement he has made, it is due to the House to have a clear and intelligible reply on this subject, and because I think the conditions which we are to demand should be qualified by the successes of war-whether he is bound by the stipulations made by the right hon. Gentlemen in February last, and whether he is prepared to counsel his Sovereign and our somewhat forgotten allies, to offer such terms as he considers will prevent the aggression of Russia for the future, and secure a safe and honourable peace. MR. OTWAY: I regret very much, Sir, that anything I have said could be thought to impute such conduct as you have described to the right hon. Gentlemen, for nothing was further from my intention than to say that the right hon. Members had been guilty of treason. What I intended to say was, that I conceived that the tenor of their speeches must have led all hon. Members to suppose that any stipulations made by them with the noble Viscount could have been in no other than a favourable light towards Russia. I think it must be conceded that that was their intention, from the remarks which have fallen from the noble Viscount; and, that being the case, it cannot but be thought that the noble Viscount considered them proper conditions, for the noble Viscount and the right hon. Gentlemen were sitting for nearly two years in the same Cabinet, and were fully cognisant of each other's views as to the terms and conditions of peace. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: However natural the desire of the hon. Member who has put this question may be to have full information on the subject, I am sure the House will concur with me, that it would be unbecoming in me to enter upon a deI think this a grave mat-tailed discussion of the matter. All I can therefore state is this and I hope it will be sufficient for the hon. Gentleman and for the House-that when my right hon. Friends, who have lately ceased to be Members of the Government, were considering the proposals that were made to them that they should join the Cabinet, they very naturally and properly desired to come to a clear understanding upon any points upon which it was possible that some difference of opinion might afterwards arise. In so doing, I think they only did that which was due to themselves and to me. There was one point upon which they required information, and that was whether it was the intention of the Government, then in the course of formation, to make a particular demand upon Russia the sine qua non of peace. I stated, in reply, to the friend throngh whom the communication was made, that the demand was not one which this coun try was entitled to make a sine quá non, and that it was not his intention to propose to his colleagues to make it an absolute condition. Of course, all conditions of peace communicated by the Governments of England and France to the Government of Austria, and afterwards communicated by that Power to Russia, depend upon the events of the war; and that which might at one time be a condition which this country might not be entitled to demand, might, under altered cir ter for consideration, and it is a sorry proof of the harmony which was said to have existed in the Government of the noble Lord; and if these right hon. Gentlemen had so little confidence in their chief, I think it would have been far better if they had not joined his Government. But there is matter far graver than this. In the struggle in which we are engaged we have allies, and I should like to know whether they were made aware of the stipulations of the right hon. Gentlemen? Supposing that the conditions referred to Sebastopol and I think it not unlikely that they did what could be more natural than to suppose that our allies, deeming the rebuilding or destruction of that fortress most important, should be desirous of imposing certain conditions with reference to this fortress, concerning which the right hon. Gentlemen may have stipulated with the noble Lord. The same remarks will apply to Bomarsund, and I ask if our allies were not made aware of the stipulations of the right hon. Gentlemen, what becomes of our alliance? There are many other considerations which call for positive inquiry into those proceedings, with reference to which I consider the noble Lord's conduct was neither statesmanlike nor patriotic. There are further considerations connected with the subject with which I will not trouble the House, for the right hon. Gentlemen have seceded cumstances, become one very proper to insist upon. I hope this explanation will be considered sufficient, and that the House will not consider it necessary, or advisable, that I should enter into further details. MR. DISRAELI: It is, no doubt, of the utmost importance that there should be a complete understanding between the members of a Government; and this House has no right to ask for more than a general exposition of the main principles on which a Government is formed. It has no right to inquire into all the conditions which may have taken place between the several Members of the Government. But when in a debate of the magnitude of that which has lately taken place, the Members of the Government specifically referred to a particular stipulation and condition made to and assented to by the noble Lord who remains at the head of the Government, Her Majesty's Ministers must not be surprised at such a question as that asked by the hon. Member. The course which has been pursued is perfectly legitimate, Parliamentary and constitutional, and I do not think any Gentleman is open to censure for making such inquiries as have been made by the hon. Member. It was an inquiry which those who are Ministers, or who have been Ministers, must have expected would be made after the specific allusion made by them to these stipulations. I should not have risen, but I thought the tone of the noble Lord's reply implied that the inquiry was improper; but, as I have said, after what has taken place, he must have expected that such an inquiry would be made. MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I should not have risen to claim your protection against the language used by the hon. Member language which I do not think he has abandoned, as he might have done-had I not felt justified in so doing. I agree, how ever, with what has fallen from the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), and do not think that the slightest blame is to be attributed to the hon. Member for making this inquiry. I feel a good deal embarrassed both by the question and the subject it has reference to; for it appears to me, in a question of this kind, one of two courses ought to be pursued. The Commons ought either to know nothing or everything. For my part, as far as my personal and strong inclinations and earnest desire go, I wish that my noble Friend at the head of the Government, if he felt it consistent with his public duty, after having made reference to this subject, could have felt himself at liberty to proceed, and have laid before the House all the information in his power; for I am certain that the effect of these partial references, followed by information jealously and stintedly givengoing up to a certain point and then stopped short by the plea of official reserve cannot but be mischievous to all the parties concerned. On this ground I regret the position in which the matter has been left; but I am not in a condition to press for the information beyond expressing my personal inclination and desire that it should be given; but the public interest must rule all the decisions in questions of this character. With regard to myselfand I do not presume to speak for any one but myself-but for myself I beg leave to say that I am not aware that I have at any time, either directly or indirectly, by myself or through others, at the time of the formation of the Government, put a question to my noble Friend with reference to the anticipated conditions of treaty with Russia; for this reason-I was not aware that any difference of opinion existed between us as to those conditions, or that any such difficulty would arise. In thus speaking for myself, and not admitting that I was a party to any question of the kind, I do not wish to be understood as making any assertion on behalf of my right hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle; it is for my right hon. Friend himself to state, if he thinks fit, the part which he took. As far as I am concerned, no communication to which I was a party had reference to any particular stipulation, term, or condition of peace with Russia. I hope I have explicitly stated my own inclination to the House. I deeply regret the position in which this question stands. I sincerely wish, especially in a case like this, where nothing in the world passed between the noble Lord and my right hon. Friend except what was perfectly frank, straightforward, and honourable upon all sides, that, after a reference had once been made to the subject, all the particulars could have been made known to the House. Resolution contains three dis blind adherence to routine, has given rise to Sir, my great misfortunes, and threatens to bring distinct propositions. First, it states that credit upon the national character, and to involve the House views with deep concern the the country in great disasters-" state of the nation; it points out, secondly, what I consider the source of the evil; and, thirdly, what will be the consequences if the present state of things continue to exist. To that Resolution an Amendment has been given notice of by my hon. Friend opposite (Sir B. Lytton)—if the hon. Baronet will allow me to call him sosomewhat of a similar nature to a Motion which was brought by a noble Lord (Lord Ellenborough) before another assembly when I gave notice of my Resolution. The noble Lord to whom I allude felt it necessary to place the sentiment he entertained And said-Sir, I am more in need, even than usual, this evening of the kind in dulgence of the House, both because I am afraid I shall have to trespass upon its attention for a considerable time, and because the question is one which, under any circumstances, might perhaps give rise to feelings of irritation upon the part of some Members of the House. It is, however, my especial wish to treat the question in as moderate a spirit as possible, and I shall therefore prefer reading such documents as I possess to expressing any strong opinion of my own upon the sub-in a somewhat palatable shape before that ject I shall have to bring forward. This assembly; and I believe the hon. Baronet question is one of far too serious a nature has now acted under a similar feeling, for me to make any appeal to the passions and, following the advice of the Italian in discussing it, even had I the power and poet, has anointed the edge of the jar the eloquence necessary for me to do so. I with honey in order that his friends may wish merely to make a plain, straightfor- more readily swallow the dose he is about ward statement. It cannot be denied that to administer. I have endeavoured to call a general feeling is abroad that there is things by their right names, for I think something wrong in the administrative sys- this country has been placed in considertem and the government of this country-able danger from that not having been that there are great evils in that adminis- done. I also think that danger threatens trative system which can only be remedied this country from too great respect being by some kind of pressure from without. paid to personal and private feelings. I will endeavour, as concisely as possible, [Laughter.] Perhaps hon. Gentlemen, to state the grounds upon which the people before they laugh, will allow me to exof this country have come to that con- plain my meaning. Those feelings are clusion. It will be for Her Majesty's Go- very right and necessary in private affairs, vernment to show whether these grounds and no one can respect them more than are correct-that conclusion justifiable or I do; but those who put aside public duty not-and it will rest with these Gentlemen out of consideration for them neglect their who represent various branches of the pub- duty; and if that were the principle upon lic service in this House to show how far | which the House were to conduct its prothe country is right in believing that the ceedings, it would be as well to conduct departments with which they are connected our debates with closed doors, and we are not properly administered. I shall en- might as well make our debates secret deavour to say nothing which will hurt the at once as be guided by the conventionfeelings of any of the right hon. or hon. and alities which are necessary in private sogallant Members present, and I trust that ciety, and pay an undue regard to private they, on their part, will permit me to state feelings in dealing with public matters. what I think without attributing to me What should we say if a judge did not any improper motives; for, I assure them, use harsh words in condemning a criminal with the deepest feelings of conscientious for fear he should hurt his feelings? There conviction, that my only wish is to promote are cases in which we all agree that conthe public good. If the hon. and gallant demnation, to some extent, is necessary; Member for Weymouth (Colonel Freestun) but if phrases unduly harsh are used in is in the House, I trust he will justify his expressing that condemnation, they are statement that things which I have said received with public disapprobation. I are not true, in a tone less bitter than that trust I shall do my duty in that rewhich he adopted on a former occasion; spect. I will endeavour to be moderate. and, for my part, I will endeavour to pre- I will state facts; if I am wrong I vent that question from giving rise to any hope hon. and gallant Gentlemen will personal acrimony. tell me so without any irritating expres |