Oldalképek
PDF
ePub

That being the case, and the

when she would neither consent to it, nor the debate. offer any other to accomplish the same ob- House having come to this stage of the ject, it became evident that further nego-debate and being ready, I hope, in a few tiations would only be trifling with the two minutes, to come to a division, it would be countries which had embarked in the con- childish to ask the House to withdraw the test. Motion, which hon. Gentlemen seem afraid of meeting, and to wait until next week. for the chance of something else being proposed to take the sense of the House. We are perfectly content to take the sense of the House on that assurance of support which the right hon. Gentleman, very much to his credit, proposes this House should express. The right hon. Gentleman certainly, last week, proposed something which amounted to a censure upon the Government; it has now been lopped of its head, but the assurance of support still remains, and that assurance is doubly valuable to us, for, following as it does that large majority which we had on a former occasion, it shows that we are the Government to which that large support was accorded. We shall feel it our duty to carry out the wishes of the House and the will of the country.

war.

That, then, being the case, the question is, what ought the House to do in the existing state of things? The right hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli) gave the House an opportunity before the recess of determining whether the conduct of the war should be left in the hands of the present Government, or should be transferred to the hands of the hon. Gentlemen who sit opposite, and the House answered that question by a majority of 100. I apprehend, therefore, that it cannot enter into the views of hon. Gentlemen opposite to try that question a second time-that cannot be the object which they have in view. Then, they say they expect Her Majesty's Government to come down to the House with a Message from the Crown, and to propose an Address, by which the House should pledge itself to support Her Majesty in the vigorous prosecution of the It is unnecessary for us to do that, because the right hon. Gentleman has done it himself. The Resolution of the right hon. Gentleman, coupled with the introductory passage proposed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring), would be precisely the same Resolution as that which the Government, if they had had to take the initiative in the matter, would have proposed to the House. If there had been no Motion of the right hon. Gentleman, and if there had been no Amendments proposed upon it, then, next week, when we shall be able to lay on the table the remaining papers relating to the negotiations, we should probably have asked the House to express its regret that peace had not been obtained, and to say that it deemed it its duty to assure Her Majesty that it would give Her Majesty the utmost support in the vigorous prosecution of the war, for the purpose of obtaining a safe and honourable peace. I offered, the other day, if the Motions were swept away, and the House waited until the papers were produced, which they could not be until we got them-and probably we should not have them for a day or two-to propose something to the House which should convey an expression of the opinion of Parliament upon the existing state of things; but the offer was refused, and the House determined to go on with

We are asked to say what are the objects of the war? That question has been put to us by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Midhurst (Mr. Walpole), but at the same time, in the course of his speech, he was constantly expressing a wish to know the conditions which we intend to propose to Russia. Now, every one knows pretty well what is the object of the war. It is idle for any man to ask his friend, much more a Prime Minister, what is the object of the war. The war was undertaken to repress the aggressions of Russia on Turkey; to defend-I will not say to defend Constantinople, for that would be taking a narrow and limited view of the matter, for if Turkey had nothing left but Constantinople, I would not give many years' purchase for that possessionbut to defend the Turkish Empire from being swallowed up by Russia. That is the object of the war, and it is that for which England and France are fighting. And are we fighting for it without reason? The House will recollect that, in the papers which were laid on the table at the beginning of this dispute, we were kindly and civilly told by the Russian Government that Turkey must fall-that the man was sick, and that his death-bed was approaching-that the man's inheritance ought to be divided, and that if Egypt would suit us, and if we liked to have Candia, these two possessions might probably induce us

SIR JAMES GRAHAM said, he was anxious to offer an explanation to the House upon a question affecting the personal honour of himself and his two right hon. Friends near him (Mr. Gladstone and Mr. S. Herbert). Nothing could be more accurate than the statement of his noble Friend the Prime Minister, that he (Sir J. Graham) and his two right hon. Friends were parties to the arrangement that a proposition should be made to the Russian Government with reference to the diminution of the preponderance of Russia in the Black Sea which should require the limitation of the Russian naval force in that sea. They were parties to that proposal, as were also our allies Austria and France; but it was never intended to be made an ultimatum; and, therefore, he objected to the expression "insist," which the noble Lord had used. He and his right hon. Friends were parties to the proposal, but they were never consenting parties to its being made a sine quá non,

to wink at the appropriation of the rest question which we are going to vote-will by other parties. I say that the intention be the Resolution of the right hon. Genof Russia to partition Turkey is as mani- tleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli) minus the fest as the sun at noonday, and it is to introduction, and plus the introduction of prevent that we are carrying on the war. my right hon. Friend. If that be the The object of the war, as stated in the Motion which the House is about to vote declaration, which we must all recollect, is upon, I trust that party feeling will for one not only to protect Turkey-to protect the night be set aside; that, as it is no longer weak against the strong, and right against a conflict of party-the vote a fortnight wrong but to avert injury and danger ago having silenced that question-we from ourselves. Let no man imagine that shall, at least for one night, and upon one if Russia gets possession of Turkey, and occasion, be unanimous in our assurances if that gigantic Power, like a Colossus, to the Crown that we are determined, as had one foot upon the Baltic and another the true representatives of the people of upon the Mediterranean, the great interests this great country, to give to Her Majesty of this country will not be perilled-let the best support we can in the prosecution not the peace-at-all-price imagine for a of the war to the attainment of a safe and moment that their trade and their com- honourable peace, merce would not be deeply injured. Instead of things being as they now are, notwithstanding the war-if instead of what I am told is the usual consumption of cotton at Manchester-30,000 bales per week-there are now 40,000 used-so that the trade is actually more flourishing than it was before the war-that that lucrative trade would labour under heavy encumbrances, if not soon disappear, were the Mediterranean and the Baltic under the sole command of a Russian naval force, and that Power exercising a dominant control over Germany. Who shall say that then the day might not come when those who may succeed the hon. Member for the West Riding might not have to repair to the hospital at Portsmouth, either to assist in aiding our suffering army or to obtain a place of safety. Well then, Sir, I say, we accept the Motion of the right hon. Gentleman-we accept the assurance of support which I am sure there is hardly any man in the House who does not feel in his heart desirous of giving; it must be the feeling of every gentleman that, in the present state of things, it is becoming. on the part of the House to assure Her Majesty that they will give their earnest support in the prosecution of the war. I am sure that such a Resolution will meet with a unanimous response from one end of the country to the other; that there is not a man in any part of the United Kingdom who will not feel his heart glow when he finds that the Parliament of the country is animated by the same sentiments as himself, and who will not be proud to think that he shares in some degree in the determination to support the Government. The Motion of my right hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth—which is, I hope, the

MR. LOWE rose to address the House; but

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER said the hon. Gentleman was not entitled to speak. Having waived the privilege of speaking when he moved his Amendment without remark, it was not competent to the hon. Gentleman to claim that privilege now.

Question put, and negatived.

MR. LOWE said, that as the forms of the House had prevented him from explaining his former Amendment, which had been much misrepresented in the course of the debate, he did not think it right to trouble the House to vote on an Amendment which had not been before them in the way he could wish. As to the Motion of the right hon. Baronet the Member for

at all, as he did not think it worthy of the

occasion.

MR. J. G. PHILLIMORE also abandoned the Amendment of which he had given notice.

The Motion of the right hon. Member for Portsmouth having been read by the Deputy Speaker

MR. WALPOLE said, Sir, the noble Viscount has made a strong appeal to the House, in which I entirely and cordially concur, that it is desirable that in any question upon which there is not a serious difference of opinion, our decision with reference to any declaration on the subject of the war should be as unanimous as possible. Therefore, although I certainly should have thought the declaration contained in this Motion unnecessary in itself, yet since it has been put from the Chair, I, for one, shall think it right to support it.

Portsmouth, he should give no vote on it | prepared to adopt. Therefore, it appears to me that we are in this difficulty, and that we ought not to shut our eyes to it. We are about to agree in asserting a proposition; but we shall do so with feelings absolutely irreconcilable. I do not think the House and the country will gain much by such a declaration. Had it been in the power of the hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford (Sir W. Heathcote) to have proposed his Amendment at a period when it was justified by the state of the facts, I should, with great satisfaction, have joined him in a declaration. of opinion which at any rate would have been plain, manly, and unequivocal. The alteration of circumstances and the lapse of time have completely disposed of that Amendment, and I have now before me nothing but a choice of evils. On the whole, I agree with my right hon. Friend that it is not desirable, and that it is plainly impracticable, to introduce new propositions at this period of the debate, and that it is also undesirable, in the circumstances before us, that we should present an appearance of dissension in regard to the prosecution of the war. As far, therefore, as I am concerned, I shall give my vote in favour of the Motion, though I do not give it cheerfully or readily, as I think that Motion unequal to the occasion.

MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, upon a previous occasion, when the words on which we were then about to divide were already announced, and were practically before the House, I stated what very much coincides with the view of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Kidderminster. I must confess, if I had the choice of the mode of proceeding, that I am not of opinion that the words now before us are altogether equal to this occasion. It appears to me that when the grave occasion arises-and a very grave one it must be upon which this House thinks it necessary to pronounce its sentiments in regard to the question of war or peace; it ought, I should say, above all things, it ought to be careful that its sentiments are pronounced in a clear, unequivocal, and unambiguous manner. Now, Sir, I find myself in this predicament, that the right hon. Gentleman presents me with a Motion with every word of which I agree. I agree in regretting that the Conferences at Vienna have not led to a termination of hostilities, and I agree that it is the duty of this House to support Her Majesty in the vigorous prosecution of the war till She can attain to a just and honourable peace. At the same time, while I so regret that the conferences have not led to a termination of hostilities, I regret it much in the same manner as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Midhurst; and, I am bound to say, in a very different sense from many persons who are of opinion that the course pursued by Government in this respect has been wise and expedient a proposition which I am not

Question, That the words "having seen with regret that the Conferences of Vienna have not led to a termination of hostilities,' be inserted after the word "House" in the original Question: It was resolved in the affirmative.

Then the Main Question, so amended, being put,

Resolved-"That this House, having seen with regret that the Conferences of Vienna have not led to a termination of hostilities, feels it a duty to declare, that it will continue to give every supPort to Her Majesty in the prosecution of the War, until Her Majesty shall, in conjunction with Her Allies, obtain for this Country a safe and honourable Peace."

The House adjourned at half after Two o'clock till Monday next.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Monday, June 11, 1855.

MINUTE.] Sat First in Parliament.-The Lord
Wemyss, after the Death of his Father.
PUBLIC BILLS.-1 Friendly Societies; Grants
of Lands.

2a London Necropolis and National Mausoleum;
Brighton Incorporation.

LONDON NECROPOLIS AND NATIONAL | plain, for the county he represented had

MAUSOLEUM BILL.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a. LORD BERNERS opposed the second reading of the Bill, on the ground that the promoters of it had originally contracted for the purchase of 2,000 acres of land under the Act of Parliament constituting the cemetery; that they had secured certain portions of it to themselves, and now they asked Parliament to give them power to dispose of other portions of it. The recent Act of Parliament was passed for the benefit of the metropolis, and the present Bill was completely contrary to the terms of that Act.

LORD REDESDALE hoped that their Lordships would allow the Bill to go before a Committee. If the Bill were in the state in which he (Lord Redesdale) believed it to be, the noble Lord who opposed it was not at all correct in his statements. All that the promoters of the Bill wished was, to obtain power to dispose of certain detached portions of the lands they had purchased, which could never be perly appropriated to the purposes of the cemetery.

pro

been very liberally treated on the twentyfive and a half inch scale; but he could not help thinking that a uniform six inch scale should have been carried out all over Scotland. The twenty-five and a half inch scale could easily be reduced to the six inch one; but the six inch scale could not easily be increased to the twenty-five and a half inch. Another objection to the twenty-five and a half inch scale was the enormous size of the map. He had found that the map of a tolerably large county on that scale would exactly cover the highest house in London, the French Embassy. Then, if that survey were to be carried out on a differential scale, not as regarded counties, but as regarded individual districts in the same county, it would be found a very bad plan indeed, and would not answer in any way whatever.

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL said, he thought the noble Earl would admit that while a plan-for it ought not to be called a map -on a twenty-five and a half inch scale would be highly useful, and almost indispensable for many purposes, in the culti vated districts of Scotland, it would be utterly useless in the case of the uninha

LORD ST. LEONARDS said, that if the directors of the cemetery were indulging in land speculations-if they had ac-bited and mountainous districts; and that, quired 1,000 acres more land than they needed, and now wished to sell it for building leases, &c., he should oppose any such proceeding; but if they had only bought more land than they wanted, believing it to be necessary, and now desired to dispose of certain outlying portions of it, he thought it would be a very great hardship if that House interfered with their proceedings.

Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed. The Committee to be proposed by the Lords' Committees appointed for proposing Committees on opposed Bills.

ORDNANCE SURVEY OF SCOTLAND. THE EARL OF EGLINTON wished to know what decision had been come to with regard to the scale on which the Ordnance survey of Scotland was to be concluded. He understood it had been decided that the rich mineral and agricultural parts of Scotland should be surveyed on a twentyfive and a half inch scale to the mile, the Highland and mountainous districts on a scale of six inches to the mile, and the large towns on a scale of ten feet to the mile. He, perhaps, had no right to com

therefore, it would be utterly useless that the whole country should be surveyed on that scale. He quite agreed with the noble Earl that it would be desirable that some plan should be adopted with regard to the districts to which the different scales were to be applied, in order to secure a certain degree of uniformity in the survey; and the exact line of division would be a matter of careful consideration for the officers charged with carrying it out. He represented himself a mountainous country which it would be useless to survey entirely on the large scale; but it contained detached districts to which that scale might be applied with great advan tage. The six inch scale, he believed, had not been found altogether useless for property purposes in Ireland; but the circumstances of the two countries were totally different, and although so small a scale would be sufficient for the Highlands of Scotland, it would not be at all sufficient for all purposes in the lowlands. He thought it a great national object that they should possess a plan which would be sufficient for property purposes, and serve at the same time as the basis of a registration plan for the sale of lands. The pro

posed plan would serve all those purposes, and as it would not cost much more than a uniform six-inch scale, he thought their Lordships ought to be content with it.

LORD MONTEAGLE said, it was important to know whether Scotland and Ireland were to have a survey which would be of real use to both countries. He did not think that so large a sum of public money was intended to be laid out for the private purposes of property. The practical scale was that of one inch to the mile, and he hoped it would be adopted in Scotland. A larger plan would be of little real use to the country, and would entail an enormous expenditure.

portant Act-the Act of Union between England and Ireland. I think I have a right to complain of the course pursued by the Government, who have, without due consideration of the law of the case, put an interpretation on the Act which is strange, and, I think, erroneous, and in direct contradiction of the interpretation which has been placed upon it by every previous Government, and even by the framers of the Act of Union fifty-three years ago. I shall presently show good reason to your Lordships for my statement that the construction put on this Act by the creation of the Barony of Fermoy has been put upon it in order to serve a politiTHE EARL OF HARDWICKE said, he cal purpose, and owing to the pressure of had never found that the people of Scot- a political emergency. Your Lordships are land were unmindful of their own interests, aware, that by the 4th Article of the Act and he could not conceive that anything of Union it is provided that upon three could be more advantageous to the owners vacancies occurring in the Irish peerage of land in Scotland than to possess a per- the Crown was empowered to create one fect plan of their farms upon a twenty-five peer. The Irish peerages were to be reand a half inch scale, surveyed at the pub-duced till they arrived at 100, the object lie expense. If he were a Scotchman, he should certainly vote for a twenty-five and a half inch scale, because it would then be an object with him to obtain the most perfect map of his estates.

being to keep at that number those out of whom the representative peers were to be elected. It was stated that peerages in abeyance should be deemed to be existing peerages, and that no peerage should be deemed extinct until one year after the death of the last possessor. But in order to guard the rights of successors it was provided, that after the expiration of the

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL agreed with his noble Friend (Lord Monteagle) that for all scientific purposes, though not, of course, for statistical or estate purposes, a map upon a one-inch scale was indispens-year-the Crown having availed itself of able. With regard to the observations of the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Hardwicke), he could only say that the six-inch scale, which had been adopted for Ireland, could only have been adopted in reference to purposes connected with property. The noble Earl appeared to think that questions connected with property were not matters of national importance; but it seemed to him (the Duke of Argyll), that it was a great national object to obtain a perfect map of the whole country upon a large scale.

THE BARONY OF FERMOY.

THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, the question which I have to put with regard to the late creation of the barony of Fermoy is one of great importance, affecting as it does the privileges of the peerage, of which your Lordships are the appropriate guardians, which concerns the legitimate and legal exercise of the prerogative of the Crown, and which affects the construction now for the first time placed upon a very important provision of a very imVOL. CXXXVIII. [THIRD SERIES.]

the vacancy-if a claimant should appear, that circumstance should have the effect of preventing the next vacancy that should occur counting towards a new peer. Fifty or sixty peerages had become vacant in pursuance of these enactments, and fifteen or sixteen peerages had been created since the Union. The last creation was in 1852, when Mr. Fortescue was created a baron. In the course of April or May, in the present year, another creation took place, by which Mr. Roche, the Member for the county of Cork, was raised to the peerage by the title of Baron Fermoy. On hearing of this creation, and on receiving some information connected with it, I thought it my duty, in order to elicit the grounds on which this creation was to be vindicated, to move for a return of the three peerages which had become extinct, so as to justify this creation; and I confess it was with some surprise, notwithstanding the information I had received, that I found the first of these peerages which were now held to authorise the Government to make this last creation fell vacant

3 L

« ElőzőTovább »