taunted them on that point with much justice. He admitted the difficulties of the question, but after seeing the temper of the House he would not divide the House on the present occasion, but he would reserve any opposition which he had for the consideration of the Bill in Committee.

VISCOUNT BERNARD said, he was anxious that it should be clearly understood with respect to the 14th clause whether it would interfere with improvements under existing contracts. He should oppose the retrospective clause.

MR. KEOGH said, they were specially exempted.

MR. SERJEANT SHEE was proceeding to reply, when

last Amendment for that which he had previously moved.


Motion made, and Question put, "That the Debate be now adjourned. Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. SPEAKER said, the hon. and learned Gentleman had no right to reply, no Amendments having been made to the second reading.

MR. SERJEANT SHEE said, in explanation, that he desired nothing better than that Her Majesty's Government should reduce their intentions and wishes to clauses upon which he should be in a position to express an opinion when he saw them.

MR. GROGAN said, he should move the adjournment of the debate. He considered that it was most injudicious to interfere with existing contracts. There was only one exception made for the whole of Ireland, and that was grounded upon the fact that the landlords of Ireland were too cruel and hardhearted to be trusted to deal fairly by their tenants. No reason had been shown why the House should agree to the policy of the 14th clause. Every one spoke of the great utility of the Bill when this clause was expunged-but no notice had been given whether it was the intention of the hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Serjeant Shee) to expunge it. If he refused to do so, in what position would the House be after it had assented to the second reading of the Bill? The clause could not be condemned in stronger terms than those of the noble Viscount the First Lord of the Treasury. He (Mr. Grogan) meant to give the hon. and learned Gentleman an opportunity of stating his intentions, for he would move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.

Question again proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

Amendment proposed, to leave out the word "now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day six months."

MR. CONOLLY said, he understood that the House were agreed as to the propriety of reading the Bill a second time, and leaving the 14th clause open to any objection that might be raised to it in Committee.

MR. WHITESIDE said, if he was to understand that the hon. and learned Mcmber for Kilkenny (Mr. Serjeant Shee) left the 14th clause an open question for the Committee, the hon. and learned Gentleman would receive no further opposition from him (Mr. Whiteside). He wished, however, to state that the doctrine of the hon. and learned Solicitor General, speaking on the part of the Government, was the most extraordinary doctrine in reference to property that had ever fallen from the lips of a Law Officer of the Crown. He begged to remind the House that 20,000,000l. of property had been purchased in Ireland on the faith of a Parliamentary title, and that title depended upon the fact that every purchase was concluded between the purchaser, the owner, and the tenant. If it were intended to reopen these purchases they might as well establish a law of confiscation.

MR. P. O'BRIEN said, he was not prepared to enter into any compromise on the subject of the proposed elimination of the 14th clause from the Bill, which he believed to be the very essence of the Bill, but he would have no objection to consider the subject in Committee.

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, the hon. and learned Member for Wallingford (Mr. Malins) ought to know, though, perhaps, the hon. and learned Member for Enniskillen (Mr. Whiteside) did not know, the difference between the case he (the Solicitor General) had put to the House, and the case which the hon. and learned Member for Wallingford represented him to have put. The case the hon. and learned Member for Wallingford represented

MR. SPEAKER reminded the hon. Gentleman that he had already moved the adjournment of the debate. MR. GROGAN said, with the permis-him to have put was the case of an express sion of the House he would substitute the contract between landlord and tenant; but


those who had done him (the Solicitor Ge- | a third of 15s., he did not know how they neral) the honour to attend to what he could support the schedule in its present said, knew very well that he stated the law applicable to a case where there was no express contract, but where the landlord had looked quietly on and had been tacitly a consenting party.

MR. MALINS said, that the hon. and learned Solicitor General complained that he had not correctly represented what had fallen from him, because he had in the cases which he had cited referred to imputed contracts. He had not understood the hon. and learned Gentleman to be referring to that subject, and, if he did do so, it was clear that he was speaking on a subject not then under the consideration of the House. He had understood the hon. and learned Gentleman to apply those cases to the present Bill, and he thought that, in that case, he had shown that they were not applicable, and, if they were not applied to the Bill, then the hon. and learned Gentleman had been speaking to a subject not before the House.

Question put, "That the word 'now' fore Two o'clock. stand part of the Question."

The House divided:-Ayes 163; Noes 50: Majority 113.

Main Question put, and agreed to.
Bill read 2° and committed for Thursday


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Question put, "That 12s. 9d: stand part of the Schedule."

The Committee divided:-Ayes 99; Noes 48: Majority 51.

MR. MOFFATT said, as the Committee had decided by a majority of more than two to one that 4s. 6d. was the third of 15s., he thought it was useless to press the amendment of which he had given notice. At the same time he believed the two " 'drops" in sugar would be attended with very vexatious consequences, both to dealers and consumers.

MR. BLACKBURN said, he also considered that the change would be productive of much inconvenience.

After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the clause was agreed to.

MR. I. BUTT said, he understood the proposition of the Government was to reduce the duties by one-third, but unless they were prepared to vote that 4s. 6d. was

The other clauses of the Bill were also agreed to, and the House resumed. The House adjourned at a quarter be



Saturday, May 5, 1855.


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required that the names of the persons who received the Order of the Bath should have appeared in the Gazette was adopted with the view to prevent that honour being conferred, except in cases of most distinguished service; but, in the present instance, he dreaded very much, unless that consideration was kept in view, the mention of names in the Gazette would be far more indiscriminate than upon former occasions. In the Peninsular war the Duke of Wellington was most careful only to report the names of those for that honour who had done some especial service. By degrees, however, the practice of mentioning names in the Gazette had come to be so extended, that the published list was tantamount simply to a statement of the officers engaged in the particular service recorded. He was much mistaken, however, if a perseverance in the practice would not tend to render the honour valueless in the eyes of those on whom it was conferred; while, at the same time, he could not help thinking that this calling upon Lord Raglan to state in a despatch the names of all the officers whom he deemed worthy of the honour, would conduce to increase the mischief rather than otherwise. If it was determined that all officers who had distinguished themselves should receive the decoration of the Bath, the best course would have been to advise Her Majesty to issue a new statute providing for their appointment, and dispensing with the particular portion of the oriaginal statute which caused the present delay. Such a course would have been by no means unprecedented, as especial sta tutes had constantly been issued where the ordinary ones were not sufficient to meet the demands of the moment.

postponed? The fortune of War had already carried to their last account many of the gallant men who had helped to gain the victories won in the Crimea, and he hoped, therefore, that rewards intended to be bestowed upon them would not be longer delayed.

LORD PANMURE was able to inform the noble Lord that in the course of a week or two the Crimean medal, with the clasps for Alma, Balaklava, and Inkerman, would be ready; while he could assure their Lordships that no one regretted more than he did the delay which had taken place in their preparation. With regard, however, to the higher honours to be conferred on the officers, namely, the decoration of the Order of the Bath, the delay which had arisen in bestowing them originated in the, as yet, non-fulfilment of the prescribed rules of the Order. For, as their Lordships might be aware, according to those rules, it was requisite that the names of all the officers who were to receive the decoration should first be mentioned in the public despatches, and then inserted in the Gazette. In the present case that had not, up to this time, been done, and hence the delay. But, in order to prevent any further delay taking place, he had written to Lord Raglan, calling upon him to forward a despatch, enclosing the names of all the officers whom he considered entitled to receive that distinc


THE EARL OF MALMESBURY hoped that for the future they would learn lesson from their enemies. Their Lordships might perhaps be aware that at the present moment there were in London more than one Russian medal, with the stamp of "Inkerman" upon it, granted to Russian soldiers for distinguished bravery in that action. Now that circumstance proved that in other countries greater dispatch could be used in the preparation of medals than in England.

LORD PANMURE said, the fact of the Russian army having already received a medal for Inkerman was easily explained. It was well known that a medal for Sebastopol was actually prepared at the moment of the battle, and all that the authorities had to do was to affix the name of Inkerman to the medal with means existing on the spot.

EARL GREY hoped that due caution would be observed in the distribution of the honours of the Bath. The rule which

AFFIRMATIONS (SCOTLAND) BILL. LORD CAMPBELL, in moving that this Bill be now read a second time, said, that their Lordships would have no difficulty in sanctioning a measure the object of which was to extend to Scotland an advantage now enjoyed in the rest of the United Kingdom, and to allow witnesses appearing in a court of justice, who had conscientious scruples to the taking of oaths, when that was proved to the satisfaction of the presiding Judge, to make affirmation instead. He had been informed by Members of the right reverend bench that those scruples were not confined to Dissenters, but were shared in by many who


Poor Law Relief to

were sincere members of the Church of England, and who grounded their objections on the words of our Lord, as well as on the phraseology of the Thirty-nine Articles. The Bill which provided for the satisfaction of those scruples as regarded England, by the last clause in it expressly exempted Scotland; but the fact was, that that those scruples were more prevalent in Scotland than in England. The English Bill confined the power of dispensing with oaths to courts of civil judicature; whereas by the present Bill it would extend also to criminal courts: but he should propose in Committee to restrain the enacting clause to courts of civil judicature, leaving Her Majesty, at the same time, power to extend it to criminal courts by Order in Council, if it were considered advisable.

{COMMONS} Families of Soldiers, &c. 180 made in the Bill of last year was to extend it to affidavits, which it did not include when it left their Lordships' House,

Bill read 2, and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Thursday next.

House adjourned till To-morrow.

THE EARL OF WICKLOW thought that their Lordships could hardly be aware of the extent to which the English Bill had been altered in the House of Commons. Regardless of the feeling which had been over and over again expressed by their Lordships with regard to Lord Denman's and other similar Bills, they had so altered it that every individual in this kingdom who chose to say that he had a conscientious objection to taking an oath, whether in a court of justice, on affidavit, or any court of record, would be at liberty, with the consent of the Judge, to make an affirmation instead of an oath. No doubt, if the measure were a good one for the rest of the kingdom, it should be extended to Scotland. He asked their Lordships to contrast their proceeding in the present instance with that which they adopted in another. While oaths were about to be dispensed with in every court of justice in the kingdom, their Lordships still tenaciously adhered to the necessity of every member of the House taking oaths at the table which he might believe to be false and improper. He trusted that in a short time their Lordships would no longer be called upon to take those oaths, to which so many Peers conscientiously objected; for how was it possible to assert that the Pope had no spiritual authority in this country, when every one knew that he had, and that we endowed schools and colleges for the express purpose of cultivating Roman Catholicism?

LORD CAMPBELL wished to set his noble Friend right in one particular. The only alteration which the Commons had

Monday, May 7, 1855.

PUBLIC BILLS.-1° Sewers (House

3° Parliamentary Representation (Scotland) Act
Amendment; Intestacy (Scotland).

POOR LAW RELIEF TO FAMILIES OF SOLDIERS AND SAILORS-QUESTION. COLONEL KNOX said, he would beg to ask the President of the Poor Law Board whether, among the exceptions to the entrance into the workhouse, the following was one, namely, "where any such person shall be the wife or child of any ablebodied man, who shall be in the service of Her Majesty as a soldier, sailor, or marine;" and whether, therefore, the wife or child of a soldier might not demand relief without being compelled to enter the workhouse.

MR. BAINES: In reply, Sir, to the question of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, I beg to state that poor persons of this class cannot legally insist upon outdoor relief if the guardians for any particular reason think it right to administer relief in the workhouse. On the other hand, however, the guardians in every union in England and Wales are at perfect liberty to give them outdoor relief if they think fit to do so. Even in those unions where the prohibitory order, as it is called, renders outdoor relief to the ablebodied generally illegal, there is an express exception in favour of the wife or child of any soldier, sailor, or marine, in Her Majesty's service. The same rule applies to the wife or child of any militiaman on duty. The result is, that the discretion of the guardians in giving outdoor relief to poor persons of this class is wholly unfettered either by the general law or by any order of the Poor Law Board; and I am happy to be able to add that, so far as my information goes, the guardians throughout the country are exercising this discretion in a very considerate and humane spirit.

THE VIENNA CONFERENCES-QUESTION. | accoutrements, new accoutrements were MR. DISRAELI: Sir, it is now about only issued when they were required, but a fortnight since the House of Commons when it was necessary that they should be were informed that the negotiations at issued, those of the new pattern were supVienna had proved unsuccessful, and it is plied. Alterations had been made in the exactly a week since the unsuccessful ne- knapsacks, which would relieve the troops gotiator reappeared in this House. I wish of about one-third the weight they formerly to know whether the protocols of the con- carried, and all knapsacks now issued were ferences, which Her Majesty's Govern- of the new pattern. The old stiff leather ment promised to produce, are ready to stocks had been abolished, and in their be laid upon the table, and if not, when place stocks of a light elastic substance they will be. had been adopted. The troops in the colonies had been furnished for the current year with clothing of the old pattern, but

ŠIR GEORGE GREY: I am not able, Sir, to give a definite answer to the right hon. Gentleman's question. I know, how-clothing of the new pattern had been supever, that my noble Friend the Secretary plied to the army in the Crimea.

of State for Foreign Affairs is preparing the papers to which the right hon. Gentleman refers for presentation, and that they will be laid before the House on the earliest possible day.

COLONEL DUNNE said, he would beg to ask the hon. Gentleman whether he had received any report representing that the new stock was infinitely worse than the old one.

MR. DISRAELI: I beg to give notice then, Sir, that I shall to-morrow ask Her Majesty's Government, whether they can inform us positively on what day these protocols will be laid upon the table; and, unless they can promise that the papers shall be produced very speedily, I shall call on the House to express an opinion on the subject.

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON, having subsequently entered the House, said that the papers would be ready the next day, and that the cause of the delay which had taken place in their presentation, was the temporary illness of a person in the Foreign Office, in whose department it lay to translate papers of that description.



SIR GILBERT HEATHCOTE said, he would beg to ask the hon. Under Secretary for War, whether the improvements and amelioration announced last year in the dress and accoutrements of the army, with a view to render them less cumbrous and embarrassing, and more adapted to the requirements of actual service, particularly as to stocks, knapsacks, &c., had been carried out, and to what extent, both at home

and abroad.

MR. FREDERICK PEEL said, he had reason to believe, on the contrary, that it was infinitely better.



LORD WILLIAM GRAHAM said, that there seemed to be some inconsistency in the statements which had been made in that and the other House of Parliament, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, with reference to the Commissariat arrangements for the Sardinian Contingent. It had been stated that the original agreement was, that the Sardinian Government should supply the contingent with one month's provisions, and that after that time the contingent should depend entirely for their supplies upon the English Commissariat. He begged, therefore, to ask what was the nature of the arrangement that had been entered into.

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: Sir, the arrangement was, that for whatever period the Sardinian Government provided supplies, in the first instance, for their force, after the lapse of that time the Sardinian Contingent should draw their supplies from the British Commissariat, the Sardinian Government paying for those supplies. I will also take this opportunity of stating, that on this day week my noble Friend at the head of the War Department (Lord Panmure) will explain, in his place in the other House of Parliament, the arrange

MR. FREDERICK PEEL in reply, said, that the improvements which it had been determined to make in the dress and accoutrements of the army had, he believed, been carried out as far as circum-ments Her Majesty's Government intend stances would allow, but, of course, some to make, with the view of consolidating time must necessarily elapse before they several military departments of the Adwere universally adopted. With regard to ministration.

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