place. In his opinion, a high motive of policy was a good ground for accepting a fervice from the militia beyond: what it was bound to by their original conftitution. He depre cated the mode of arguing against granting the power, by affuming that it would be abused when it was granted. He protested against the supposition of an intention to withdraw at once: 10.000 of the best troops in Ireland, to be replaced not at all, or by troops lefs difciplined. The object was to add 10,000 men, without interfering with our best descrip tion of force, which would thereby be rendered more dif pofable. He contended that foldiers were frequently put in a deliberative capacity, particularly when called upon to volunteer in a storming party, or on a forlorn hope, or any other service of extraordinary danger. He was fure no pers fon would be more ready than his honourable Friend over the way (Colonel Vereker) to volunteer fervices of danger for the fafety of any part of the empire, but he could not ap prove of the idea of a local patriotifm, preferring one part to all the rest. As to the mifchief of bringing away the men of property and magiftrates in the Irish militia, this would only apply if each regiment were kept in its own district. As it was now, and had always been the cafe in the Irish militia, to ferve in counties diftant from their own, he could fee no difference between their ferving: in England; and: in a remote part of Ireland. As to the next objection, that the railing of an additional militia force would cripple the recruiting, experience had proved it would not. As to the argument that fencibles ought to be raised, he conceived, it would be fufficient to reflect, that the men would be railed: more speedily, more cheaply and more rapidly, by being incorporated with militia regiments already highly disciplined. Befides, there was no fource from which experienced officers. could be found for fencible regiments. It was the opinion of the best officers, that with eight new regiments, and tea new battalions, with the exifting difpofable force more at liberty by the prefent measure, we should be in a conditionl to undertake offenfive operations. It was not the object of the prefent measure to leffen the defence of Ireland; if that was the object, the removal of the regular, troops would: more naturally be thought of. He disclaimed the idea of: bringing the Irish militia to this country from any motive oft fufpicion. He knew the difficulties men had to contend with in their own country; but he had feen the Irish mili tia tried in the year 1798, by plans of feduction beyond any. VOL. II. 1803-4. 3 G thing

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thing that the ingenuity or wickednefs of men would for its own fake ever practise again; and though a few had falles victims, the great mass had proved inacceffible.

Mr. T. Grenville remarked an inconsistency among the Speakers on the other fide. The noble Secretary adduced the tranfactions of 1798 and 1799, as precedents to fanction the prefent proceedings, while the noble Lord difclaimed making fuch a ufe of them. He denied that there was any anas logy between the circumstances of the voluntary offer in 1798, and a cold cabinet measure like the prefent. The noble Lord difclaimed, for his Majesty's Minifters, any idea of making this measure even the foundation of an interchange of militia; but he doubted, whether the manner in which his Lordship spoke would have the effect of quieting the apprehenfion which fome of his hearers might entertain on that fubject. There were many modes in a voluntary effer, that may be procured in a manner little fhort of actual violence. He noticed as a great inconfiftency, that while the paper on the table ftated the offer to come only from 6000, the bill empowered the difpofal of ro,000. With all respect for the Irifh militia, and believing them to be as gallant men las any in the world, he did not think either English or Irish militia equal to regular troops, nor could he believe, that the removal of 10,000 Irish militia to this country would give a regular force of the fame amount. It was a whimsical argument to fay, that this was the quickest way of obraining 10,000 men, while it was faid, that the power, though given, was not to be speedily used. True, the appeal to the volunteer spirit of the army for the formation of ftorm-ing parties and forlorn hopes, was giving them a deliberative power, but it was a deliberation to be decided on the impulfe of the moment, in which Britons would never be wanting. It was widely diftinct from a cold deliberation like that of the prefent measure. He complained, that in matters which were for intimately connected with the regular army, the House was called upon to vote without any account of the regular army before them. Sometimes one Minifter and fometimes another took from their pockets papers, which they read as fuch accounts, and which they put in their pockets again. He thought it wrong that this measure was divided from that which was to replace the force to be taken away Both fhould be connected, and Gentlemen would thus have the opportunity of confidering the whole together. Arprefent, if this bill paffed, there was no fecurity that

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the force, the removal of which it would authorize, would be replaced.

Lord De Blaquiere thought it would be an infult to the Irih militia to reject their offers, as if they were not worth accepting. With respect to giving a deliberative power to foldiers, he recollected to have been the instrument of giving it himself in many inftances. The orders were iffued for weeks together, relative to the expeditions to America, Fou Ion, Holland, and Egypt. He deprecated the idea of coupling the English militia in the measure, confident of their ala crity, if their services should be necessary in Ireland. There were now in Ireland 30,000 regulars, and 11,000 militia. If Government wanted to leffen the defence of Ireland, the removal of the regulars would have been the most easy mode of effecting it.

The question being put the Houfe divided: For the Speaker's leaving the chair 124-against it 54-majority 70. The House went into the Committee; and the report was ordered to be received on Thursday.

Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the Committee on the Irish militia augmentation bounty. The refolution was agreed to; and it was ordered that the Committee on the Irish militia augmentation bill be inftructed to make provifion accordingly.

Adjourned at half paft 11 o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11.

Counfel were heard in continuation relative to the Scotch crofs appeal, Abercromby v. Fleming. The further confideration of the cafe was adjourned till Friday.

The bills upon the table were forwarded in their several ftages.

Previous to the order of the day being entered upon,

The Earl of Suffolk had a few obfervations to make refpecting a degree of mifreprefentation which prevailed in one of the daily papers, of part of what he faid the preceding day in reference to his noble and gallant friend the Earl of Moira: it was ftated, that he faid the noble Earl received his half pay as a Colonel for only ten years, whereas he obferved that he had received it during twenty years A mifreprefentation obtained upon a point of another na

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ture, and which he was more anxious to rectify. He was ftated to have faid, that the vacant regiments were bestowed upon officers who had performed no fervice to their country. What he faid, however, was, that thefe regiments were given to junior officers. The officers in queftion poffeffed confiderable merit, and for them he entertained the highest respect. He was not a little hurt at the idea that these refpectable officers fhould imagine he had fo fpoken of them. His Lordship regretted having occafion to notice this matter; and he was of opinion, that the reporters fhould be granted fome indulgence, in order to enable them to be more correct in their reports.

On this remark, one or two peers faid "Order;" on which the noble Earl declined proceeding.

VOLUNTEER REGULATIONS, BILL.

The order of the day being read, their Lordships went into a Committee upon this bill, Lord Walfingham in the chair...

When the twenty-eighth claufe was arrived at, it was ftrongly objected to by Lord Grenville, who cenfured it as futile, inefficient, unneceffary, and abfurd, and these characteristics he thought appeared on the face of the claufe fo clear, that it was fuperfluous to take up the time of the Committee. The effect of this claufe is, that volunteers, while under arms, or going to the place of exercise, &c. who fhall mifconduct themselves, may be ordered by the commanding officer into the custody of any person belonging to the corps, while it remained under arms. Lord Gren ville concluded by moving for its omiffion.

The claufe was defended as neceffary and proper by Lord Auckland and the Earl of Weftmoreland. The animadver fions of Lord Grenville were fupported by Earl Spencer and Lord King

Lord. Harrowby differed from his noble Friend (Lord Grenville) with refpect to the claufe; he conceived it pro per for the due maintenance of difcipline, and he thought it might be improved fo as to anfwer every objection, by: providing for the attendance of a conftable on fuch uc cafions.

The difcuffion upon this claufe was terminated by a divifion, when there appeared, for Lord Grenville's motion, 7against it 22-majority 15.

Several of the fubfequent claufes were disposed of after fome difcuffion, in which the above-mentioned Peers, witr

the

the force, the removal of which it would authorize, would be replaced.

Lord De Blaquiere thought it would be an infult to the Irish militia to reject their offers, as if they were not worth accepting. With refpect to giving a deliberative power to foldiers, he recollected to have been the inftrument of giving it himself in many inftances. The orders were iffued for weeks together, relative to the expeditions to America, Tou Ion, Holland, and Egypt. He deprecated the idea of coupling the English militia in the meafure, confident of their ala crity, if their fervices fhould be necessary in Ireland. There were now in Ireland 30,000 regulars, and 11,000 militia. If Government wanted to leffen the defence of Ireland, the removal of the regulars would have been the most easy mode of effecting it.

The question being put the Houfe divided: For the Speaker's leaving the chair 124-against it 54—majority 70. The House went into the Committee; and the report was ordered to be received on Thursday.

Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the Committee on the Irish militia augmentation bounty. The resolution was agreed to; and it was ordered that the Committee on the Irish militia augmentation bill be instructed to make provifion accordingly.

Adjourned at half past 1 o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORD S.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11.

Counsel were heard in continuation relative to the Scotch crofs appeal, Abercromby v. Fleming. The further confideration of the cafe was adjourned till Friday.

The bills upon the table were forwarded in their several stages.

Previous to the order of the day being entered upon,

The Earl of Suffolk had a few obfervations to make refpecting a degree of mifreprefentation which prevailed in one of the daily papers, of part of what he faid the preceding day in reference to his noble and gallant friend the Earl of Moira: it was ftated, that he faid the noble Earl received his half pay as a Colonel for only ten years, whereas he obferved that he had received it during twenty years A mifrepresentation obtained upon a point of another na

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ture,