་

be no finifter intention, or no intereft whatever, on the part of his Majesty's Minifters, in refifting the motion, or any purpofe of committing a breach of parliamentary faith with the holders of the loyalty loan and had he himself confidered the refiftance of the prefent motion in any fuch point of view, he would be amongst the laft men living to give his fanction to fuch a breach of faith. On the contrary, he confidered the fubfcribers to the loan as having no fuch complaint to make in juftice. They had, upon the refolu tion having paffed the Committee of that Houfe, depofited, as was usual in fach cafes, 10 per cent. as a fecurity to the Minister to bind them to fill up the remainder of the fubfcription, after the bill founded upon fuch refolution should have paffed into a law. The bill founded upon the resulu, tion, actually was brought into the Houfe with the very clause against which fo much cenfure had been directed. It had been several fucceffive days in the courfe of difcuffion, both in that and the other Houfe of Parliament, and the fubfcribers were apprifed of the claufe in queftion. They were at liberty, therefore, to withhold the fubscription, if they difliked the terms expreffed in the clause; but having afterwards continued their payments, they certainly had now no right to complain of a bargain they had ratified with their eyes open. He fupported generally the arguments of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who, he faid, was only acting on this occafion, as he conceived himself bound, by an act of Parliament, in a duty to the public, and not by any motive of private intereft or caprice. It was obviously the intention of the framers of this bill, to provide against the claims for redemption of this loan from coming forward at a time when Parliament fhould not be fitting, when they might be embarraffed in providing for the payments, and therefore it was, that the 10th of October and the 5th of April next after the expiration of two years from the ratification of the treaty of peace, were named as the periods from which the fix months notice was required in the bill. He was not aware of the motives which actuated the right hon. Gentleman, in the infertion of this claufe in the bill, notwithstanding the refolution of the Committee had certainly fome meaning founded on just reafons; and that the fubsequent amendinent, upon which the whole of the prefent debate turned, was inferted in the Committee' on the bill, not without fome reasons at the time affigned. How that amendment came to be inferted, he could not now pretifely account; however, it was there, and had VOL. II. 1803-44 K paffed

paffed into a law with the confent of both Houfes, and by that law Minifters were bound to act, until the Houfe fhould think fit to repeal it. He was fomewhat at a lofs to account for the particular time chofen by the hon. Member for bringing his motion forward, the very day before the Chancellor of the Exchequer had appointed to negociate for the loan for the fervice of the year; and one of the principal grounds upon which his right hon. Friend was justified in adhering frictly to the letter of the act of Parliament on the occafion was, that if it was understood the loyalty loan was to be paid off now, instead of the 5th of April 1805, it would operate materially to depreciate the terms of the loan.

Mr. Canning fupported the motion and the arguments of his right hon. Friend near him (Mr. Pitt), and after commenting on the arguments of the right hon. Gentleman who laft fpoke, obferved, that fome ftrefs had been laid upon an argument that only one-third the number of the loyalty loan ftockholders had come forward with their claims on this occafion; and that the number of the original fubfcribers to the loan, compared with the prefent holders of such stock, were extremely few, as if that were an argument to deteriorate the ftrength of their claims; but he begged to fay, whoever were the holders of that stock at this moment, or whether they held it by inheritance or purchafe, it devolved to them with all its rights, privileges, advantages, and difadvantages, on as full tenure as the original fubfcribers, and therefore their claim was justified to the full extent.

Mr. Tierney explained, and vindicated the statements he had formerly made.

Mr. Pitt had not a very distinct recollection of the terms contracted on, or the alteration that took place, but was certain that no communication could have been made to the holders of the loan in regard to that alteration. He regretted that he had not a diftinct recollection, but entered into a detail of the circumstances, fo far as his recollection could ferve him, and concluded by ftating, that on the ground that the notice fhould be given at the expiration of the two years from the figning of the preliminaries of peace, and the fix months added to the two years, the time of payment would turn out to be pretty nearly on the 10th of October.

Sir William Pulteney oppofed the motion.

Mr. Henry Thornton obferved, that it had been urged that only the proprietors of eight millions of the loyalty loan

had

had come forward with their claims of notice on the prefent occafion, and that the proprietors of the remaining fixteen millions were not at all concerned in the prefent motion, nor any way urgent on the bufinefs; but he begged leave to fay, that the only motive which prevented the remainder from coming forward with their notices, was because they were in utter uncertainty as to what was the, proper ftep to purfue, and only waited the difcuffion of the Houle that night. They were by no means indifferent to their interefts, however, on the occafion; nor infenfible to the very material difference between the redemption of the loan now, and the poftponement of that redemption for another year. For reducing the fubject to a mere queftion of profit and lofs, it would make a difference of at least 4 per cent. on the value of the stock to be paid off now instead of April 1805; because, as that stock was now at 90, immediate payment would raise it to 100, whereas the delay of a year would continue it at moft at its prefent price; and the proprietors of 16 millions, he believed, could not be very indifferent to fuch a confideration as 4 per cent. upon the amount of fuch a capital.

Mr. Morris oppofed the motion, and maintained the arguments of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The Attorney General alfo oppofed the motion, maintained the points of law, and utterly denied that the Houfe of Commons was to be bound down, in legiflating a bill, by the right hon. Gentleman under the gallery, who had introduced the bill with the very claufe objected to, had brought in that clause, and substituted the fubfequent amendment, in confequence of fome conference or communication with the original fubfcribers, though it efcaped his recollection.

Mr. Pitt explained, and denied having had any fuch conference.

Mr. S. Thornton alfo denied any fuch communication, and faid, that the original fubfcribers were confiderable lofers by the loan in the outfet, as in confequence of the claufe, after the first payment, the ftock was at a discount of two per cent.

Mr. Dent fhortly replied to feveral of the arguments against his motion; and in anfwer to an imputation made to him by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he had himself refifted and voted against the claim of the holders of the loyalty loan, for an additional bonus of five per cent. when it fell to a depreciation of 13 per cent.

4 K 2

stated,

ftated, that on that occafion he had refifted their claim upon the ground that they had made their loan on a free and fair fpeculation, upon their own terms, and ought to abide by the bargain, becaufe, if their fund had been raifed 13 per cent. they would not have feit themfelves bound to account with the public; but upon the very fame principle of juftice he opposed them then, he would fupport them now, because he thought their claim right.

The House then divided: For the motion 76-Against it 100.-Majority 24.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice, that on Friday, in the Committee of Supply, he fhould fubmit a motion for granting a further fum for the completion of the Caledonian Canal; and also that he should move the plantation estimates.

Lord Caftlereagh ftated, that his Majefty had been waited on with the address for a lift of half-pay officers, and had given directions accordingly.

The account of fhips and veffels in commiffion, and of artificers employed in his Majesty's dock yards, was withdrawn, on account of an error, and a correct one presented.

Mr. Vanfittart moved, that there be laid before the House an account of the quantity of wine and raw fugar imported and exported in the year ending 5th of January 1804.Ordered.

The bills relating to the pay, clothing, and allowances of the militia in Great Britain and Ireland, were read a fecond time, and committed for the next day.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25.

Counsel were farther heard relative to the appeal cause, Richardson v. the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. To proceed again on Friday.

The bills on the table were forwarded. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25.

A meffage from the Houfe of Lords announced that their Lordships had agreed to the Irish militia augmentation bill, and the Irish militia transfer bill.

Mr. Jervis gave notice that on that day fe'nnight he

fhould

fhould move for leave to bring in a bill founded on the fourth. report of the commiffioners for naval inquiries, relative to the early diftribution of prize-money.

Mr. Dent gave notice that he fhould, in the course of a few days, unless fome other Gentleman brought the fubject forward, fubmit a motion to the Houfe with refpect to the loyalty loan.

The Houfe went through a committee on the priests orders bill. The report was received, and the bill ordered to be read a third time the next day.

The Committee on the Irish revenue regulation bill was ordered for Friday next.

On the motion of Mr. Bond, the Houfe refolved itfelf into a Committee on the act of the 43d George III. relating to the carrying of paffengers to the plantations, &c. In the Committee leave was given to bring in a bill to exempt from the provisions of that act all veffels employed in the Newfoundland trade. The bill was afterwards brought in, read a first time, and Mr. Bond moved, that it be then read a fecond time, on account of the expediency that exifted for the trade to Newfoundland not being delayed. Sir John Newport was of the fame opinion. Mr. Francis wifhed to be informed of the urgent neceffity for hurrying through the bill, and was fatisfactorily anfwered by Mr. Bond. The bill was then read a fecond time, and ordered to be committed the next day.

A perfon from the Secretary's office in Ireland presented certain accounts, which were laid on the table.

On the motion of Mr. Western, an account of all clover feed exported from Great Britain to foreign countries, and imported from foreign countries to Great Britain,, during the last seven years, ending the 5th of January 1804, distinguishing the amount in each year, and the ports, together with the duties and drawbacks thereon, was ordered to be laid before the House.

Mr. Secretary Yorke brought in a bill to fufpend the operation of the Irish army of referve act. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a fecond time on Tuesday, and to be printed.

On the suggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Committee on the Aylesbury election bill, which stood for Friday, was poftponed till Tuefday. Lord Porchester also poftponed his motion until Thurfday.

Mr. Wilberforce gave notice, that he fhould, on Friday fe'nnight, make a motion for the abolition of the flave trade.

Mr.