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that principle, which he hoped to fee, within a fhort time, extended much further. It was his anxious wish, that the two countries, which had but one common interest, should, whenever it was neceffary, interchange their militias. Since they were become one united kingdom by law, he trufted that they would not be separate either in sentiment or practice. He thought no more diftinction, in any respect whatever, fhould exist between them, than between any two neighbouring counties of Great Britain; and, therefore, as this meafure would tend to establish that cordiality and acquaintance between them, that was fo defirable in every point of view, it had his hearty concurrence.

The Marquis of Headfort fupported the bill, and expreffed his regret, that the great Minifter who had brought about the measure of union, was not at present at the head of his Majefty's councils.

Earl Fitzwilliam opposed it, as interfering with the principles upon which the militia of England was originally formed, and by which they were governed, and as derogatory from the honour of the nation, which poffeffing 380,coo volunteers, 70,000 militia, and 44,000 infantry, with a due proportion of artillery and cavalry, ftill was reprefented to be under the neceffity of accepting the fervices of 10,000 Irish militia.

The Duke of Norfolk would vote against the measure upon conftitutional grounds, although he acquitted Minifters of any blame whatever in the tranfaction, which was in fome measure, he had reafon to fuppofe, forced upon them. He could not concur in the wifh of a noble Marquis for the return to power of a Member of another House, much less in his opinion of his merits as a minifter. He thought that the conftitution had been more violated, the country more oppreffed and impoverished by taxes, and the state of Europe reduced to more difgrace and humiliation by his measures, than by the rafhnefs or incapacity of all the administrations that had preceded him.

The Earl of Limerick fupported the bill, and retorted with much force the arguments advanced by a noble Earl, that the practice of volunteering tended to countenance that inoft dangerous of all principles to a free Government, the principle of deliberation by armed bodies. He was fure, when the noble Lord had made that obfervation, that the extraordinary refolutions entered

into by a number of militia colonels at the Thatched Houfe, in which the noble Earl bore fo confpicuous a part, did not offer themselves to his recollection. He could fee no difference between deliberation by commanders, and deliberation by common foldiers. The bill had his concurrence, because it would promote that which was the earnest wish of his heart, the full political identity of both parts of the kingdom.

Lord Carleton readily admitted, that fuch was the flate of defence in which this part of the united kingdom was placed, that there did not exist any abfolute neceffity for the transfer of 10,000 militia from Ireland. Yet he was decidedly of opinion, that when a voluntary offer of service was made, like that which had occurred in the present inftance, it should not be rejected. It would, in fact, materially tend to the confolidation of the act of union, by fhewing the mutual confidence with which different parts of the fame empire were animated. With refpect to the observations which had fallen from a noble Lord, on the correfpondence that had paffed between two noble Lords in Ireland, one of whom filled a most important office, he had merely to remark, that fuch comments were not warranted by the incidental mention of the correfpondence, fince it was not fairly before their Lordships, and could not be made he groundwork of a charge.

The Lord Chancellor felt himself peculiarly called upon to addrefs a few words to their Lordships in confequence of the allufion which had been noticed. The character of that noble Lord, with whom it was one of the greatest pleasures of his life to live on terms of the strictest intimacy, ftood as high for honour and integrity as any other in the united kingdom; and whatever obfervations the correfpondence might have given rife to, he was confident that there was nothing in any of the circumftances which could in the flightest degree contribute to injure the diftinguished reputation his noble friend was univerfally acknowledged to poffefs. It was, he could not avoid faying, one of the characteristics of the times, that a correfpondence which in former inftances could not, unless ftolen from the pocket of either of the noble Lords, have found its way into the world, fhould now be made public as a matter of courte. It was also extra- ́ ordinary, that a charge fhould be preferred against his noble' friend, upon grounds which were clearly furreptitious, and which could not, with any propriety or confiftency, furnish a

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fubject of cenfure or comment in that Houfe, fince they could not be brought forward as the bafis of a motion for an addrefs to his Majefty. He had thought it incumbent upon him, fince the topic had been introduced, to fay thefe few words in vindication of his noble friend, who, if he had erred, muft have erred only from a deep and honest conviction that his exertions and advice would produce the moft beneficial effects in that country, where he had the honour to fill a very high fituation under the Government. As to the fentiments which had been imputed to his noble Friend, it was fafficient to ftate, that he had been here the best friend to thofe very men whom he was now accused of perfecuting; and that in all the meafures which had been adopted of late years for their relief and toleration, he had himfelf been perfonally and warmly engaged in the paffing of the different bills, which they conceived fo intimately connected with their happiness and interefts. With regard to the bill before the Houfe, he did not fee it in the fame objectionable point of view in which it appeared to prefent itself to fome other noble Lords. He thould not for a moment hesitate to fay, that the principle of an armed body deliberating was improper and unconftitutional; but it was at the fame time to be understood, that the power of deliberating might be occafionally exercifed by armed bodies, when it could alone arife from, and be regulated by, the force and urgency of peculiar and extraordinary circumftances. His Lordship having confidered the operation of the bill as effentially connected with the fafety and welfare of the two countries, concluded with faying that it fhould have his cordial fupport.

The Earl of Carnarvon-I have long entertained principles decifive of my opinion against this bill, of the introduction of the Irish militia into this country on its internal demerits, but the arguments by which it has been defended have greatly augmented my objections. It has been openly stated, by an illuftrious perfon, that he considered the meature as a prelude to a reciprocity of fervice, and interchange of militia of the two countries. Minifters avow openly that they entirely approve of the principle which blends the fervice of the militia of the united kingdoms, but that they do not think that it could now be prudently urged, as not at this moment confonant to the opinions and feelings of thofe who fill the higher ftations in the English militia. I am happy to hear that fuch opinions and feelings are known to prevail; I trust that they will continue to protect,

and

and I hope will in the end reftore, the conftitutional principles of the militia to its original fpirit. If I had no other objections to the introduction of this bill, I fhould be induced to refift this prelude to an intended evil for its bad intentions. Before I enter farther into the fubject I must obferve, that the learned Lord on the woolfack, who rofe with a proper warmth to protect the charater of a learned friend whom he thought attacked, feems to have mistaken the obfervation of the noble Lord who fits near me (Lord Boringdon): as far as I could collect from what he said, the noble Lord did not, in the fighteft degree, impeach that learned Lord's character or conduct, for he gave no opinion on the papers or perfons alluded to, but only observed, that thofe who expected a perfect confolidation of the union between the two countries to take place, would be disappointed, as long as the letters which had made their appearance, and agitated the public mind, remained unexamined and unnoticed by the Government of the country. The noble Baron certainly did not bring into question either the truth or falfehood of the papers, or merits or deinerits of the feveral parties involved; I truft alfo that I fhall not be underftood to convey any blame on any perfon, when I deduce a trong argument against this bill, from the opinion of the fame learned Lord, as it appears in thofe letters against a set of men, who most probably compofe the whole, or a very great part of the 10,000 Irish militia propofed to be tranf ferred to Great Britain by this bill certainly the charge contained in thofe letters, by a perfon fo highly fituated-and furnished with information, muft weigh ftrongly as an objection against the admiffion of regiments fo formed. The fubject before us has been difcuffed under fingular impreffions which mark that no found ideas of a militia are entertained. All military corps, however raifed, and with whatever views, have been confidered as fimilar, as if all were equally to be claffed as army. The noble Marquis (Headfort) fays, that if the Gentlemen who compofe the militia of Great Britain diflike paffing the fea and defending Ireland, now part of the united empire, they are not fit to be foldiers; this obfervation, and all the arguments I have yet heard, would fend the militia to Jamaica, to Ceylon, or any part of the empire at large. Other noble Lords have conceived the diflike to receive the generous offers of fervice from the Irith militia as a prejudice againft the natives of Ireland and the union. I have always confidered the militia

as

as a body perfectly diftinct from the army, and have refifted their affimilation to the army. It is not that I confider the individuals who compofe the ranks of the militia, or the officers who command them, as in any thing individually better or different from thofe who compofe the army; they are drawn from the fame materials, and are equally refpectable, but they are formed and arranged on a different model, both adapted to the ftations they were meant to fil. The militia is calculated for a garrifon of home defence, drawing into useful occupation thofe perfons who would not enter the military line as a profeffion, but were willing to perform a limited fervice, abfolutely neceffary to be performed by fome perfons; to furnish a protection in the time of peace against the fudden emergencies of commencing hoftilities, and a fufficient garrifon, in its original numbers of 32,000 men, for the two principal naval depôts, and capable, to the extent of their numbers, during a war, to perform moft effential fervice in cafe of invafion: by their land qualification, not wanting, and by their formation, cut off from all poffible military promotion, they neceffarily formed a corps not fo obviously influenced by perfonal views, nor looking up to the executive Government for advancement. Their independence, local attachment and property, fupply them with patriotifm and perfonal influence, which cannot but be of more conftitutional fecurity in the defence of the country, to a certain extent, than any army of perfons profeffionally engaged. But the extenfion of this military corps, (to numbers beyond a moderate infular garrifon) either in order to deftroy the diftinct fpirit and popular principles of the militia, by confounding them gradually with the army, or from the most impolitic and mean pecuniary motives, preferring a cheaper levy of less ufe for the general purposes of war, to the army establishment, which has the advantage of experience, and whofe profeffional views are the honourable motives which affift in exciting to great actions, useful to the country and to the individuals; the changes which have been made by their powerful enemies have fo much altered the militia, that its prefervation is fearce an object, indeed its annihilation would become fo, if fome faint hopes of its revival did not linger in the breafts of its wellwifhers, who are ftill inclined to prevent further aggreffions on its principles and practice. The name of militia does not make the corps fo called in each country fimilar to each other, or objects of reciprocal interchange; if it were poffible that each could ferve with

equal