to itself a deliberative capacity. To put down, and annihilate at once the poffibility of fuch a monfter arifing in this country, was the privilege of the Legislature; and he trufted that Parliament would not be intimidated from the performance of a great and neceffary duty, by any apprehenfion of future confequences. He thought too highly of the fpirit and loyalty of that great and meritorious body, the volunteers, to fuppofe that they would not readily and cheerfully acquiefce in any regulations that the wifdom of the Executive Government fhall preferibe for them. He would not detain their Lordships any longer, but move, that the claufe be expunged from the bill, for the purpose of intro-* ducing one which would embrace the ideas he had taken the liberty of fubmitting to the House.

Lord Auckland felt himlelf under the neceffity of diffenting from the motion. He thought that noble Lords fhould pause a little before they rejected the claufe of which they were in poffeffion, and without being fully acquainted with the nature of that the noble Baron may propofe to fubftitute in its place. He did not much relish the idea of being thus fent to open fea without chart or compass, and he therefore wished that the noble Baron had fallen upon fome mode of informing the Houfe to what precife point their course was to be directed. He faw much mischief and confufion likely to refult from the retrofpective operation of the claufe, nor could he agree with the noble Baron, that the exifling committees were pregnant with the conftitutional inconveniencies he had fo ftrongly defcribed; and above all, he deprecated the poffibility of fetting the volunteers loofe from the regulations they were acting under, even improper as in fonie inftances they poffibly might be. He could not concur in the exaggerated picture the noble Baron had drawn of the dangers to be apprehended from a deliberative capacity, refiding under certain reftraints and qualifications in a body of men fo patriotically and loyally conftituted as the volunteers. There was no wound, there was no fore that required the extraordinary application recommended by the noble Baron, who feemed to think that there exifted in this part of the tolunteer fy flem,

-Medicabile vulnus

Enfe recidendum, ne pars fincera trahatur

Cuneta prius tentanda.

He would not fubfcribe to that opinion, and feeing, there was no neceflity for carrying the principle to the utmoft ex

3 T2

lent

tent that it was meant to ftretch it, he would oppose the mo tion of the noble Baron.

Lord Grenville explained, that he could not, confistent with order, fubmit his ideas on the fubject in the form of a motion to the Houfe, until the clause objected to had been previously expunged, nor could he regularly communicate it to the noble Lords unless he had read it as part of his speech. However, with the permiffion of the Houfe, he would state the fubftance of what he meant to propofe, in cafe his motion for expunging the claufe fhould be carried. It was, ift,.. that the rules and regulations of all volunteer corps, actually embodied, thould, within one month from the paffing of the bill, be tranfmitted through the commanding officer and the Lord Lieutenant of the county, to the Secretary of State, for his Majelly's approbation: 2dly, that for the future no regu lation by a volunteer corps fhould be valid without fach alr: lowance on the part of the King: and, laftly, that all fuch regulations (hould originate with the commanding officer, and none other. He was particularly anxious with regard to the establishment of his last propofition, because he thought he could perceive a difpofition in the noble Baron to compro- : mife the practice, and to admit that although it would be pro.. per that the originating power should refide in the commanding officer, yet that cafes may arife where it would be prudent in him to confult and refer to the collective opinion of the corps.

Lord Hawkesbury agreed in many of the opinions of the noble Baron. He wished that thofe regulations had never exifted; but as Parliament, for fome years paft, had acquiefced in them, he could not fee upon what principles of confiftency or public faith it could now be endeavoured to put an end to them. The mifchiefs which the noble Lord apprehended from thofe regulations were not, he would contend, fo probable as were fuppofed, and for this ftrong reafon," that whenever they fhould be placed on permanent duty, or called out in cafe of appearance of invafion, there would be an end to all their rules and regulations, and they would, in. either of thofe two inftances, he fubject to the operation of the mutiny laws, like the reft of his Majefty's forces. the claufe of his noble Friend fufficiently provided against future dangers, and as from the tried prudence and loyalty of the volunteers he was juftified in prefuming that by far the greatest part of them would be ready to recaft their regulations, or to adopt fuch alterations as his Majefty fhould recommend,

As

recommend, he would perfift in fupporting the original

claufe.

The Duke of Montrofe lamented that either the preceding or the prefent Government fhould have, either directly or by connivance, fanctioned the practice of allowing men with arms in their hands to alfume a deliberative capacity. He thought it the duty of Parliament to crufh, by their formal and open declaration, the poffibility of it for the future. As the clause intended to be proposed by the noble Baron would most fully effect that, it should have his fupport, and he would therefore, although he did not wholly difapprove of the prefent claufe, vote for the motion for expunging it.

Lord Hobart did not mean, after what had been urged in reply to the noble Baron who made the original motion, to enter at large upon the subject, but he rofe for the purpose of repelling fome obfervations thrown out by the noble Baron, tending, in his judgment, to produce all the mischiefs they purposed to avert. He alluded to that part of his argument, wherein he called upon Parliament to do their duty, regardlefs of any confequences that might follow; and not to have it imagined that they were to be intimidated, by the numbers or extent of the volunteer force, from cruthing their committees, and abolishing the practice of deliberating. He could not fit filent, and here it afferted, that a British Legisla· tore could be ever deterred from the performance of its duty, or the maintenance of its authority, by any body or bodies of men. He thought too well of the principles of loyalty and patriotism by which the volunteers were actuated, to fuppofe that they would ever be guilty of the crime of rafhly setting themselves up again Parliament; but if they thould, he trufted that Parliament would always be found competent to the task of putting them down. When the volunteers of Ireland, during the period that a noble Earl near him (Lord Weftmoreland) was Lord Lieutenant there, were engaged in fome proceedings contrary to the exifting laws, the Parlia-" ment of that country exerted the powers with which the constitution had invefted it, and the volunteers were fuppreffed. Should the fame circumftances require it, as long as the fame" caufe produced the fame effect, a fimilar refult would attend a fimilar attempt by any defcription of force in this part of the empire. The original clause would, by its operation, accomplith, by gentler, and as effectual means, all that the n ble Baron promifed to him elf from the adoption of His fubftitate for it, and therefore it should have his fupport.

The

The queftion was then put on the motion for expunging

the claufe:

Non contents, 25-Contents, 10-Majority, 15.

A new claufe was propofed by Lord Grenville, and adopted.

"

Some other amendments were made, and the bill was paffed, and ordered to be fent back to the Commons as amended.

Lord Hobart moved that, as the printed copies were on the table, the Irish militia augmentation bill fhould be read a fecond time the next day, and that the Lords fhould be fummoned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 18.

Lord Marfham, as chairman of the Committee on the Middlefex election, reported that Benjamin Weal having been duly fummoned to attend the faid Committee, had negJected to obey the faid fummons. On the motion of his Lordship, and conformably to the precedents in fuch cases, it was ordered that the Speaker do iffue his warrant for taking the faid Benjamin Weal into the cuftody of the Serjeant at Arms.

Mr. Penruddock Williams prefented a petition from the debtors confined in the county gaol of Wilts. Ordered to lie on the table..

The Secretary at War stated, that the accounts ordered on the motion of an hon. Admiral (Berkeley), relative to the barrack department, were more extenfive than the hon. Admiral, on confideration, thought neceffary. He therefore, with the confent of the hon. Admiral, moved, that the faid order be discharged, and that an account be prefented of all barracks hired by Government, and given up, together with the time of giving them up refpectively. Ordered. This account was afterwards prefented by Colonel Gordon from the barrack office, and ordered to lie on the table.

On the motion of Mr. Corry, the Houfe went into a Com mittee on the Irith revenue regulation acts.

A refolution for continuing and amending the acts 42 and 43. Geo. II. for the better collection of the revenue in Ireland, was agreed to, and the report ordered to be received the next day.

Several

Several petitions relative to corn, grain, and malt, were referred to the Committee on the corn laws.

On the motion of Mr. Elliot it was ordered, that the proper officer thould lay before the House an account of the particular funs charged under the heads of penfions, allowances, gratifications, and incidents, on the different departments of the revenue, barrack board, and board of works, in Ireland, in the different years, from 1ft January 1801, to ift January 1804, fpecifying each year.

ARMY OF RESERVE SUSPENSION BILL,

Mr. Secretary Yorke moved the order of the day for the fecond reading of the bill for fufpending the army of referve

act.

Mr. Long rofe merely to ftate, that a right hon. Friend of his (Mr. Pitt), who had given notice of his intention to enter into the difcuffion of this bill in its prefent stage, was prevented by a flight indisposition from coming down to the Houfe that day. He could affure the Houfe, that his right kon. Friend was extremely anxious to deliver his fentiments at large upon the fubject. The Houfe would recollect, that his right hon. Friend had given a notice on this fubject before the recefs, and that he had only put it off at the defire of his Majefty's Minifters, and to wait to fee whether this meafure would anfwer the object he had in view. He had authority to state on the prefent occafion, that in the next ftage of this bill his right hon. Friend would attend to offer his fentiments at large, and to take the fenfe of the Houfe upon the measure. It would be convenient to gentlemen, if the right hon. Secretary of State would mention the day on which it was intended that the bill should be further proceeded upon. It would not be convenient, he believed, that it fhould be proceeded upon the next day, as for the day after (Friday) an hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox) whom he did not then fee in his place, had given notice of a motion which was likely to produce much difcuffion; but he understood that hon. Gentleman had no objection to accommodate the Houfe by deferring his motion for a few days, if it should be the with of the Houfe and his Majefty's Minifters to proceed with the prefent bill on Friday. He withed fome of the hon. Gentleman's friends who were prefent, to ftate what they understood as to his concurrence.

Mr. Secretary Yorke was forry for the caufe of the right hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Pitt's) abfence on the prefent occa