of the kingdom. The English and Scotch militia might be removed as far from home to the diftant parts of Great Bri tain as if fent to Ireland and therefore the argument of convenience fell to the ground. It would, however, not be confiftent with good faith to compel their fervices, but that breach of faith was done away by the voluntary offers which had been made. The learned Member thought that this question" ought not to be difcuffed, because, with whatever warmth it ,might be treated, it would be a cold aníwer to the zeal and fpirit of the gentlemen who had made the offers; and concluded with itating it to be his opinion, that the militia, as being more characterised by the habits of common life than any other fpecies of military force, ought to be interchanged in the different parts of the empire, for the purpose of promoting the affimilation of manners and habits in the two countries, which would moft fpeedily carry the union into complete effect.

Mr. Johnstone denied, as had formerly been stated, that the war was approved of by the country at large. The unanimity that prevailed arofe from very different circumstances. The moment the war was declared, we were threatened with invafion, which united the whole country independently of any confideration of the neceffity or expediency of the war. It was a war, he maintained, that could end only in a peace fuch as was made at Amiens. Could any acquifitions, he afked, we had made in the Weft Indies, contribute in the fmalleft degree to force the French to a peace? The Gentlemen on the oppofite bench, however, had taken merit to themfelves for fending orders to the West Indies, by which we had gained fome distant and temporary advantages there. But if this was fo much calculated, to do them credit, why did they not iffue fimilar orders to the East Indies, and thus prevent the expedition of Admiral Linois, which certainly would have been of much more importance to this country? The hon. Gentleman concluded by giving his negative to the Speaker's leaving the chair.

Lord Caftlereagh replied to the observations of Mr. Johnftone, refpecting the orders fent out to the Eaft and West Indies, and fhewed, from the different circumftances attending the two fituations, why correfponding orders were not fent. It was fuppposed that the reinforcements of troops prepared in France were intended for the garrifons in the West Indies, and the order was confequently fent. Orders were fent to the Eaft to take all proper meafures of defence, and, indeed, a general

order

order was iffued to all the fettlements immediately after the rupture: but no order could, from the nature of the cafe, be fent to the East Indies analogous to what was fent to the Weft,pla

Mr. Kinnaird rofe to take notice of what had fallen from. an hon. Member who had faid, that if we gained no glory in the war, we should shame the French. He did not exactly understand this principle. His object, in this war, was to bring it to a fpeedy and effectual termination; not to remain in a miferable state of fiege, and be daily putting new fetters on our exertions. This measure was to be accompanied with another, to increase the army by 18,000 men. But how? To be raised here, and in Ireland; and yet by this measure Ministers set up a new competition in the raising this new militia.

Colonel Vereker thought it unfair to take away the Irish militia for English fervice, and then oblige Ireland to raise fo many more to make up the deficiency; the expence of them being defrayed by the bounties paid by the counties in Ireland, might thus be amazingly increased.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved that it was the intention of Government to introduce a claufe to charge the expences of the bounty on the united kingdom.

He

Colonel Hutchinfon expreffed much latisfaction at the refo lutions of the Lords Lieutenants, &c. on the fubject of the militia, as they did not go to preclude any new fyftem of arrangement. He should fupport the bill, because he wished to fupport the Executive Power at the prefent moment. hoped for a bill to allow the interchange of the militia of both countries. In England, from the palace to the cottage, there was a greater ignorance of the true ftate of Ireland, than of any other country with which we profeffed to be acquainted, upon the face of the globe. He hoped to fee the English gentry and perfons of other claffes mixing with the people of Ireland, and then they would return here advocates for the caule of Ireland, fo that no Minifters would be able to refift the voice of truth. English Members would then be induced to pay more attention to frith questions than at prefent they are able to do, from ignorance of the state of the country. He allowed this measure to be founded on a violation of the militia principle, but he took into confideration the attendant circumstances. Minifters had, however, much depreffed his. feelings, when they appeared defirous of withdrawing from the original grounds on which they fupported the measure. Here was a bill to bring over 10,000 men from Ireland, but he was 3L2

aftoni bed

aftonished to hear that they had no idea of an interchange. They would then take away, the country gentlemen of Ireland, and make no kind of return for it. He was forry to fee the great object thus weakened. But let it not be thought that Ireland, because fhe exhibits this inftance of her patriotism, is really fatisfied with what has been done fince the union. The Irish thought they had the authority of the King, by his royal meffage originating the union, and indeed that of Parliament too, for expecting fome further measures. After the folemn pledges they had received, he would ask what had been done for them? But while the Irish felt and expressed their diffatisfaction, they would ftand by England to the laft. They would never fubmit to a foreign force, or yield to the haughty defpot now hovering on our coafts. They would die with England if neceffary, or fhare her laurels. But let not this be confounded with an idea of their being fatisfied with their condition

Lord De Blaquiere understood that the principle of the Secretary of State was, that of creating a larger disposable force, and therefore, because he was friendly to the principle, he should vote against the motion which propofed to add to a limited force a number fo difproportionate to the regular force, The Irith militia was formed by bounties, not by ballot, and was compofed of the very men who would otherwise be procured for the regular fervice. The militia was the very force leaft neceffary to increafe. He was defirous of an interchange of the respective militias; but if not, he thought thefe new nilitias might be railed on terms of fervice for both islands, and in feparate regiments.

Mr. Alexander replied to fome of the obfervations--of Col. Hutchinson, and cenfured the impropriety of adverting in irritating language to the union. He then noticed the conduct of two other right hon. Gentlemen (Mr. Fox and Mr. Windham), and their ftrange connexion in oppofition to Minifters. He heard continual outcries of the incapacity of Minifters; but those Gentlemen's wisdom feemed to con fift in a perfect change, and their integrity in a mutual forgiveness, accompanied by a confeffion of having been in the wrong before. As to what had been said about the union, Gentlemen who fupported it had feelings of honour as high as any others, and nothing but difunion could be the confequence to the country, whofe caufe we ought to fupport, by the provocation of fuch fubjects. He therefore condemned the introduction unneceffarily of fuch topics in difcuffion.

Mr. Windham defended the conduct of the noble Lord

(De

(De Blaquiere), who had been long in a military life, and whole opinion was worth fomething on this fubject, becaufe he knew fomething about it. Much the greater part of what fell from the laft hon. Gentleman that fpoke, he could not reply to, because he did not understand it. He had heard a great many remarks on conduct and character, and so on'; and many complaints had been made about charges of the incapacity of Minifters. They thought they heard these charges in every thing that was faid of them. They were fomething like a man who had a favourite tune, and always began to fing it when he heard a drum beat. So many topics had been introduced into the debate, that he fhould, on fome future opportunity, fpeak at more length on feveral points.

Sir William Elford faid a few words against the bill.

Mr. Secretary Yorke explained that the bounties were to be paid out of the Treasury.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer obferved, that what was before the union a charge on the public, would now go to the account of the united kingdom."

On the question being put, the numbers were

Ayes
Noes

37-Majority 57.

The bill was committed, and the report ordered to be received the next day.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave notice of his intention to move on Friday for taking into confideration parts of the petitions from Suffolk and Norfolk, refpecting imports and exports.

The Irish linen manufactory bill was poftponed till Friday, after fome converfation between Mr. Corry 'and Mr. Fofter.

Adjourned at one o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

THURSDAY, APRIL 12.

Counsel was farther heard for the appellants in the cafe from the Court of Chancery, Richardfon v. the Univerfities of Oxford and Cambridge. The farther confideration was deferred till Thurfday next.

1

On the motion of Lord Ellenborough, the bill for enforcing the execution of the canons of the church, relative to the age of priests and deacons, was poftponed till the next day.

The

The Earl of Suffolk ftated, that he had a motion of confiderable importance to fubmit to the confideration of their Lordships, which, if agreeable to Minifters, he was then ready to enter into. If, however, they rather wished that it should lie over till the next day, he had no objection to that delay, and fhould therefore give notice of his intention then to bring it forward. The motion which he should have the honour to make, concerned the war in which we were engaged in India, and as to the caufes for the origin of which, notwithstanding a positive enactment of the Legisla ture to that effect, no information had been afforded to Parliament.

Lord Hawkesbury faid, that it was not common to bring forward any motion of importance without a previous notice. There was a measure of great moment, and which had occupied a confiderable portion of their Lordships time, already before the Houfe for that night; and the noble and learned Lord (Ellenborough) had fixed for the next day a bufinefs alfo of confiderable importance. If, therefore, the noble Earl did not attach more than ordinary intereft to his intended motion, he fubmitted the propriety of giving notice of it for fome future day.

The Earl of Suffolk confidered the motion which he had to propofe as of the highest confequence. It might easily be difcuffed, too, without interfering with any of the concerns of the State, as it was founded on a subject, which, be contended, implied a breach of an act of the Legiflature, on which, therefore, little time for preparation, or for any particular inveftigation, could be required,

Lord Hebart faid, that Government were not yet in pof feffion of any official documents on the fubject to which the noble Earl alluded. He hoped, therefore, that he would delay his motion till it could be in the power of his Majefty's Minifters to give him the information he required.

Earl Suffolk faid, this was exactly the point on which his motion was founded. We were engaged in three wars in India. The caufes of the origin of thofe difputes must have exifted for twelve months, and yet, in breach of a pofitive act of the Legiflature. Government confeffed that they were in poffettion of no official documents on the fubject—a confeffion which, he thought, doubly called for his infifting on an immediate difcuffion of his motion. "

Let Uubart begged that his Lordthip would at leaft give

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