against the state of our military defence and state of preparation in India was totally unfounded. The hon. Gentle man concluded by offering a few obfervations in favour of the bill. His argument on this point was generally that, by the adoption of the meafure, ten thousand regular troops would be lef. difpofable for any general purpose.

Mr. Fox began by adverting to the obfervations which had been made refpecting a meeting of those principally con cerned in the fupport of the militia fyftem, and the refolutions which they had entered into on the fubject. He expreffed his aftonishment at the language employed that evening by an hon Member on the fame bench with himself (Sir W. Keene), and another hon Member behind him (Colonel Hutchinfon), as to the motives by which thefe refolutions were fuggefted It feemed to be taken for granted, that mere confiderations of inconvenience gave rife to the determi nation of the very refpectable body of individuals to which he had referred. But he begged leave folemnly to protest against any fuch inference, Was it not poffible that the noble and hon. perfons who had come to thefe refolutions did fo inde pendent of every idea of individual inconvenience? Was itnot poffible that their oppofition to a measure for the reciprocity of the fervices of the English and Irish militias was founded on ftrict conftitutional principles, and in perfect conformity to the fundamental laws of the militia fyftem? Were the Noblemen and Gentlemen of England to bear the infinuation caft out againft them, that they refufed to volunteer the fervices of the militia regiments which they commanded, because they were unwilling to forego the pleasures of their horfes and their hounds? Was it neceffary for him to mention the names of those who had figned the refolutions, to fhew that tuch an idea was not to be entertained for a fingle moment? Enough indeed had been faid by the hon. Gentlemen who had attributed the refolutions to any idea of inconvenience, to fhew that fuch a fuppofition was wholly groundless. It had been admitted that the noble and hon. perfons who figned the refolutions, poffeffed a very great intereft in the fafety of Ireland. From that part of the empire they derived the greateft part of their influence, as well as the most important fource of their property. Was it to be conceived then, that in refufing the offers of the militia of England to ferve in Ireland, they were actuated by any confi derations of perfonal inconvenience? No man could ferioufly hold fuch an opinion. He was confident that every man.

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who reflected on the fubject must be forced to admit, that thofe by whom the refolutions were figned had every motive to provide for the fecurity of Ireland, not merely from confiderations of intereft, but from well digefted views of the value of Ireland as a material and effential part of the British empire. He commended the refolutions entered into on this broad conftitutional principle, and he should certainly concur in refilling any measure by which the principles of the militia eftablishment might be violated without full and fair difcuffion. Gentlemen who fupported the propriety of accepting the offers of the Irish militia, proceeded on the principle that the fervices of the militia of both countries were to be reciprocally exchanged. This was, however, an opinion affumed without the fligheft evidence. This was a question which had never at all come under any general parliamentary confideration. The queftion was one of the highest importance; but it was not to be difpofed of in the way for which these Gentlemen were fo anxious to contend. It was not by the bill now before the Houfe that it was to be determined. If the general queftion of the policy and expediency of the reciprocal fervices of the two militias was to be brought forward, let it be fully, fairly, and impartially confidered; but let it not be taken for granted that any fuch understanding of the principles of the union as that contended for does at all exift. An hon. Member (Colonel Hutchinfon) had talked a good deal of the beneficial confequences which would refult from the introduction of the Irish militia into this country, and the new habits and opinions which such a measure would infpire. He could not help thinking this rather a romantic view of the subject, and he had never heard it urged as one of the benefits which would refult from the union. Hitherto, indeed, he had never heard of any benefit refulting froin the union, with the exception of this folitary one, that Ireland had been deprived of her local Legislature. He was ready to admit that he did not think many of the acts of that Legislature very laudable; but he must in candour be permitted to fay, that hitherto the meafure of the union had not received a fair trial. Those who introduced the measure into this House, had held out a profpect to Gentlemen here, and more circuitonly to the Members of the Parliament of Ireland, that the measure of union would be incomplete, independent of ulterior arrangements: Refpe&ting the meafure itself, he "wifhed not now to enlarge, as he had not attended the difcuf fion which it had created. He would however repeat, that

it had not received a fair trial. He, must be permitted also to add, that in his opinion the union of this country with Ireland was a measure practical y impoffible. Ireland was a country too extenfive to admit of fuch a union, and the fyftem of representation neceffary to carry it into effect must be attended with infurmountable difficulties. It was contrary to the nature of things to expect any important benefits from it. As far as affimilation of manners and an increase of mutual confidence were concerned, he might put it to the candour of any Gentleman to declare, whether any advantage had hitherto been attained either to Ireland or the empire at large. Under the prefent circumstances of the Government of Ireland, it was indeed utterly impoffible that any confidence.or union of fentiment could exift; when the Lord Chancellor, of Ireland took on himself to infult the feelings of threefourths of the people, by telling them that they could not be good fubjects to their King without violating their duty to the God whom they adored; that they could not be faithful to the British conftitution without renouncing the religion they profeffed. The tranquillity of Ireland, therefore, under fuch a Government, could only depend on the fame measures which now exifted in that country, and by the protraction of the fame measures of coercion which Minifters themselves had called for as applicable to the circumstances of that part of the empire. Having finished thefe general obfervations, Mr. Fox proceeded to the more direct confideration of the

After adverting to the fallacy of an argument, that there was no diftinction betwixt a body of Irish fencibles and Irish militia, he stated his views of thefe general offers of extension of services. It was clear that fuch offers of extended service were obtained by means which could not be justified on constitutional principles. It had been very properly objected to this measure, that it encouraged the practice of deliberation in military bodies, which was allowed on all hands to be inexpedient and impolitic. But his hon. Friend (General Maitland) had endeavoured to do away this objection by a fort of argument which he could not help confidering a little extraordinary. He had ftated that, in certain cafes, particularly on occafions when fome hazardous enterprife was to be attempted, the right of deliberation was allowed among foldiers. This was, to be fure, a very applicable argument! In the cafe of the militia, you have no right to call for the extension of their fervices. You cannot com pel them to go beyond the limits of their original agreement.

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But though poffeffing no power of control or compulfion, you cajole, you canvals, and by means of the moft extraordi nary kind, you prevail on them to extend the limits of their fervices. In the other cafe of regular foldiers, every man," whether a volunteer or not, is bound to go on whatever daty is prefcribed to him, however difficult. When an enterprife of difficulty and danger is to be undertaken, the motives of honour and reward are held forth to animate the voluntary offers of individuals of more courageous and determined fpirit. But what analogy was there, he defired to afk, betwixt fuch an offer and the offer of the militia regiments of Ireland to extend their fervices to this country? No Gentleman would furely preténd that, to v lunteer their fervice to this country under the prefent circumftances of the' empire, was the part either of honour or of danger. If any part of the empire was expofed to danger, furely this coun ry was not in fo perilous a ftate as Ireland. His hon. Friend had alluded to the exertions made by the prefent fervants of the Crown during the last year, and had referred to the fuc-' ceffes which had crowned our arms, as a proof of their not being deficient in energy. This was a fpecies of argument which was really good for nothing, as applicable to a general conclufion. He did not profefs to be intimately acquainted with dates, but he would refer to the year 1780, when unfortunately we commenced hoftilities with the Dutch Republic. In that year we made numerous conquests from the Dutch, both in the Weft and East Indies. We got poffelfion of St. Euftatius and Demerara, with other fettlements, which he needed not at the moment enumerate. But of what avail were thefe conquefts? The nature of the peace afterwards concluded, was the beft answer to this question." He had only to defire, that the fame principle thould be applied to the conquests made fince the commencement of the prefent war, on which fo much ftrefs had been laid by his hon. Friend. As to our fucceffes in the East Indies, he begged leave to make a few obfervations. That the victories, of which recent accounts had been received, were in themfelves highly brilliant, he was far from withing to deny. What their confequence might be, or how far the deftruction of the power of the Mahrattas in India was a politic or expedient meafore, he begged the Houfe to understand that at prefent he offered no opinion. He referved himself on thefe points till the Houfe was in poffeffion of fuller informaHe however agreed with the arguments of a worthy

Baronet

Baronet (Sir J. Wrottesley) on this subject, that the fate of our poffeffions in India was a material point to be confider ed when eftimating the amount of our military establishment. It was quite clear, whether the war in India was protracted, or whether our empire in Hindoftan was extended, there would be an equal neceflity for reinforcements from this country. He therefore was surprised at the language held by his hon. Friend on this fubject. The hon. Member went on to animadvert on the mode in which the bill was intro. duced. He obferved, that till a fubftitute, was found for the militia who were to volunteer their fervices to this country, the prefent measure could not be entertained. But Minifters. had thought proper to proceed on another principle; and before they had made the leaft provifion for fupplying the defi ciency created by the voluntary offers of extended fervice, they hurried on the difcuffion of the acceptance of those offers. But here they juftified themselves on the ground that it was neceffary to provide for any fudden emergency of invasion. This really was a moft fingular mode of proceeding. Were Minifters to be informed, that if England were invaded, and the preparations against Ireland defeated, that there were thirty thousand regular troops whofe fervices could be immediately ordered to this country? It would not be denied. that the fervices of thefe troops were equal to the fervices of the Irish militia, without going fo far as to fay that they were much fuperior. If this was the cafe, he put it to the common fenfe of the House whether, at least at the present moment, the meafure was at all neceffary? He again conjured the House not to liften to the idea or reciprocal service in the militia, till a folemn decifion of the Legislature was obtained, It was fingular, that 3, 4, and even 8 months had lapfed fince fome of these offers had been made; but now, for the first time, were they publicly brought forward. He deprecated any attempt to entrap the Houfe in their decifion on the general principle, and therefore would resist the partial measure calculated to interfere with a general principle. In conclufion, the hon. Member noticed the imbecility of the views, plans, and preparations of Minifters. He contended that they could neither maintain peace, nor put the country in an attitude for war, He declared, that to such a situation was the country reduced, that all the abilities of the country were inadequate to frame measures to bring to a fortunate iffue a war which, by wifdom and vigour, might have been avo ded. He adverted to the inability of Minifters.

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