and good effects of corporations in checking monopoly and reducing the price of provisions, it was only necessary to reply by a reference to the inftitution of the London Flour Com pany, from which fo much was promifed, and by which the public had not heard that any good had been done. He contended, that it was not at all probable the company which this bill proposed to incorporate, could furnish fish for the London market on terms as moderate, or that their fupply could be fo regular, as that from the old established fishermen, who were obliged, from their circumftances, to look out for fish for their fubfiftence, and to exert their utmost skill; while the propofed company, who knew nothing of the busi nefs of fishing, would be of course obliged to employ agents to conduct their affairs, who were not likely to be as active as the former, because they would not have the same motives to ftimulate their induftry. Under these confiderations, the hon. Member thought the Houfe fhould be cautious of entertaining a meafure which would go to fhake the old eftablishment of our fisheries, to interrupt that fyftem from which the country had derived fo much benefit, and to injure thofe poor fishermen who had always evinced fuch readiness to contribute to the public fervice. In proof of this readiness, the hon. Member mentioned, that there were at present not less than 200 fishermen enrolled for the national defence at Harwich. The reafons he had ftated, he was happy in being able to fay, were corroborated by the opinion of the refpectable colleague (Mr. Honeywood) of the honourable Baronet (Sir W. Geary) who made the motion before the House. This opinion, he was authorized to mention, was decidedly hoftile to the meafure under difcuffion, and as it came from a mind not lefs competent to decide upon the fubject, than pure in the motives which uniformly guided its decifions, he had no doubt that it would have its due weight with the House. The hon. Member, after obferving upon the rejection of a bill precifely fimilar to the prefent, in the courfe of the last feffions, upon grounds none of which had yet ceafed to exift, concluded with moving, "That the bill fhould be read a fecond time on this day fix months."

Mr. Hey Addington begged to fet the hon. Gentlemán who had juft fat down right with refpect to the bill which was before the House last feffion, as that bill was not reje&ed, but withdrawn by the hon. Baronet who introduced it, merely in confequence of its being understood that more time was neceflary in order to give it a full confideration; and he com

plimented

plimented the candour with which the hon. Baronet had acted upon that occafion. The time which had fince elapfed, and the opportunity of reflection which it afforded, he should have fuppofed would have convinced the perfons interested that it would not be expedient to introduce fuch a bill again, a bill which, if adopted, would go to eftablish what he could have no hesitation in calling a dangerous monopoly-fuch a one, indeed, as there was no precedent for in the annals of Parliament. It would alfo be, in his judgment, found a very hafty, inconfiderate fpeculation for the fubfcribers themfelves, while it would operate not merely to injure, but abfolutely to destroy the old established fishermen. Such was the apprehenfion of the confequences of this bill, that he understood fome of his conftituents had actually fold fome of the shipping employed in the fifh trade. They felt that it would be wifer in them to abandon the business although they had at prefent not less than 3000 apprentices rearing for the fea, than attempt competition with a wealthy corporation, who could give fuch high bounties as would render it impoffible for them to keep their men on board.

Mr. Hurst had a host of objections to the bill before the House, but there were two which ftruck him forcibly: the first was, that although no grounds of public advantage were laid for the measure, it would tend to injure materially all the fishermen on the River and on the coaft adjacent thereto; and the second, that he believed no fund as yet existed for the purpose of this company. If fo, then he would ask, why fhould the Houfe fanction a vifionary project? He strongly condemned that claufe in the bill, which went to protect feamen employed by this corporation from the impress fervice. To the principle of impreffing men he was by no means a friend, but while it exifted as a general law, he could not agree to the propriety of a particular exception in favour of this company, which would enable them to take from the public fervice any number of feamen they might think proper.

Sir W. Dolben thought there was enough on the face of the bill to entitle it to confideration in a Committee, where any alterations might be made in the provifions of it, as the - cafe might appear to require upon further investigation. He alfo thought enough was ftated in the preamble of the bill to entitle it to further confideration; and as to the objections. which had been ftated against the bill, he did not at prefent undertake to decide whether they were well or ill founded in

point of fact, but this he would fay, they refted hitherto on affertion only; and that was of itself a reason why, in his opinion, the bill ought to go into a Committee, where, and where alone, the whole matter might be fully inveftigated. As to what had been faid on the fubject of combinations, it was to be observed, that this was not proposed as a measure to favour a combination, but a measure to create a corporation in the trade of fishing, and experience had taught him there was a great difference between a combination and a corporation; a combination had often raifed provifions under pretence of lowering them, but a corporation had never done any fuch thing. Upon the whole of this matter, he thought the least thing the House could do in point of prudence, would be to allow the bill to go into a Committee, for without that the House could hardly fee the true nature of the cafe.

Sir W. Geary fupported the bill, and affigned the reason why it was not proceeded in laft feffion. It was not correctly ftated when it was faid that it was difpofed of by the sense of the Committee to whom it was referred; the truth was, that he withdrew it, not on account of its appearing to be an improper measure, but on account of the lateness of the feafon. It had been alleged, as a reafon for not entertaining this bill, that fome fish was now fold at fo low a rate as twopence per pound; but of this there was no proof, and he was at liberty to fay, what he confcientioufly felt, that he doubted the fact. The bill had been reprefented as a measure tending only to fupport fome individuals, inftead of being of fervice to the public; or, in other words, as a measure tending to create a monopoly; but this he denied, as the capital was to be limited to 50,000l. and if he thought it likely to have that effect, he would be one of the laft men in the Houfe to fupport it. He thought, on the contrary, that it was a measure founded on a large and liberal policy, and that the oppofition to it arofe from local prejudices and temporary interefts; and under fuch impreffions, he was bound by the fenfe he entertained of his duty, as a reprefentative of the people of this country in general, confidering their intereft on an extensive scale, to vote for the bill now, before the Moufe.

Mr. P. Mocre referred to an act of the year 1753, by which a corporation, of a nature fimilar to that propoled by the bill, was created; and flated, that although 500,000l. were fubfcribed to that corporation, the fcheme fo completely

failed that only 171. were, after a few years, returned to each subscriber for every 100l originally advanced. From this and other like inftances, fome of which he mentioned, he was adverse to the bill before the House, as he was, indeed, to the principle of thus giving to trading companies the fanction of Parliament. He never knew that any good arose from it, and, from his own experience, he could readily believe, that it was often made ufe of for improper purposes. If a company of merchants meant to enter into any speculation they might do so, and accomplish all the objects of this bill without any parliamentary fanétion. Why then apply for it? He looked at the propofition with jealoufy, as he ever fhould at any thing of the kind, particularly when he confidered that the authority of Parliament often induced men to subscribe to plans with which they would otherwise have had no connection, and that the property of many individuals was thus the victim of visionary projects. From those confiderations, the honourable Gentleman earnestly exhorted the Houfe to paufe before they gave their concurrence to fuch a measure as that now under difcuffion.

Mr. Prinfep-That I may detain the Houfe as short a time as poffible, I thall referve the defence of the rights and privileges of my own conftituents, whofe petitions against this bill are on the table, to the ability of their counfel, and to my feeble efforts at fome future ftage, in cafe (but of which I have no expectation whatever) it thould be allowed any further progrefs, and confine myself to a brief examination, how far the profeffed objects of this bill are compatible with the means intended to be applied in their execution. The bill affumes the title of "the Marine Society Fishing Com"pany, for increafing the fupply of fish, for advancing "the objects of the inftitution of the Marine Society." Now, Sir, without in the leaft meaning to impeach the conduct of the highly honourable promoters of this bill, of whofe mctives fentertain no fufpicion whatever, I cannot but regret extremely, that they fhould have been perfuaded to borrow the name of a fociety the moft juftly popular of all the benevolent inftitutions of this moft generous country, to bolfter up a wild, vifionary project; and to involve the funds and character of a charitable and national undertaking, in the precarious iffue of a mercenary fpeculation. The prefent Marine Society was inftituted in 1756, for the purpofe of clothing and fitting out poor and diftreffed boys and others for fea, and apprenticing them in his Majefty's navy. Since its firft eftablishment, it has provided for above 56,000 - VOL. H.1803-4

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men and boys, and expended upwards of two hundred thoufand pounds, in promoting the marine fervice of the nation. It has fubfifted nearly half a century with the unanimous fuffrage and applaufe of mankind. What does the bill now before us invite the Houle to lanction? a perverfion (whether in the whole, or in part only, it matters not as to the principle) of the donations and legacies of charitable perions, to purpefes widely different from the intention of the donors, and without their confent or that of their heirs or reprefentatives. Some of thefe bequefts, I beg leave to ftate, amount to 14, 15, and 17,000l. each. The Houfe will never fanction fo grofs a violation of a public trust. But the new fociety are to be under obligation to receive thefe boys as apprentices? How will this further the purpofes of the old fociety? The boys will thus be kept out of his Majefty's fervice for a period of feven years; whereas at prefent they go directly to fea, and in moft cafes into the royal navy. I would appeal to any Lord of the Admiralty who heard me, how far that purpose of the Marine Society is promoted by fuch a delay. Now, as to the treatment of the boys themselves, an anxious object of the former plan, thefe poor deferted creatures, taken from the streets and fed, cloathed, and apprenticed to commiffioned or non-commiffioned officers of the navy, have honourable and refponfible patrons, and are early fubject to the difcipline of the fervice. To whofe care, I would afk, are they now to be committed? Are they to be bound to the fervants of the new feciety, or to the corporate body? If to the latter, thefe deferted objects of the prefent humane fociety, would be ill taken care of, by working, fometimes under one mafter, fometimes under another. It bound to the fishermen themfelves, inftead of that conftant daring perfeverance, which conftitutes the character of the individuals who now supply our markets (as it has been already well obferved) with this article of provifions cheaper than any other wholetome food whatever, the boys will acquire the indolent, liftless labits of men working for a public body and receiving monthly wages. But, the Marine Society are to partake of the profits of this fpeculation. A very few words, on this fubject, with permiffion of the Houfe, and I have done. The hon. Baronet, who fpoke laft, flates as an advantage to the plan, the fmall capital of 50,000l. Now this feems to me hardly a confiftent argument: few of the mercantile eftablishments of this city trade under a fmaller capital, many much larger, and they require no charter. If the fcheme