reasonably to be preserved? If not, you had and 35,000 horse, and did not think the king better have your money in your pocket, to pre- could defend Flanders against this force. But serve yourselves. If that can be done, I can his majesty took his camp at Park, near Loucome up to it. If Treaties are ever so un- vain, which broke the French measures. The equally made, it is certain, this year you must French afterwards attacked Huy; upon which, come up to them. Show us that Flanders may the king sent for the detachment at Liege and be saved, if you come up to these gentlemen. Maestricht; but the governor did not defend Mr. Palmes. You debate upon two ques- the town so long as he might have done. Aftions, but whatever question you put, gentle- terwards happened the battle of Landen, and men may think it hard enough. The reason of if the enemies had pushed their advantage, bringing in Hanover Treaty was only to instruct Louvain and Mechlin might have been taken. you, what advance to give your Forces the next The consequence of losing these great towns is, year. Our circumstances are such, that, if you the French will afterwards take Nieuport and break into these treaties now, you will discou-Ostend. I have been told, Nieuport may be rage your friends, and encourage your enenues. I would be thoroughly informed of the reason of your losses last year, and the reason of increasing your forces. Till you are well informed, there is no haste for this question any more than for the other. Col. Granville. I believe that the committee thinks, that, when general Talmash rose, he would have given you an account of Flanders. Mr. Palmes. What fruit will gentlemen expect from this Address? If to prevent these Treaties for the future was the only intent of my motion. Mr. Montagu. This question must grow to a decision, and I wonder, all this while, that we have been upon a collateral question. If the Hanover troops, speak to it, if that be the proper question. As a ninth elector, he gives his quota for Germany. If those troops are not paid by you, they must by France. Mr. Harley. I think the question about Hanover ought to be first put. For what reason is it referred to you, unless first put to your consideration? You told us, we were not precluded. But a tacit reservation for the future, provides that, for the time to come, better care be taken; and I spoke to this first, before any spoke to the augmentation. As to his proportion for Germany, it was said, he was not an empty elector,' but the debate now is as to Flanders. This question is first, in order, to be put. 6 General Talmash *. At the beginning of last year, the French came with 80,000 foot, A gallant officer, who had had a considerable share in the reduction of Ireland, and had served this year with reputation in Flanders, where he brought off the English foot after the defeat of Landen, with great prudence, bravery, and success. But being sent, the summer after this debate, on a desperate attempt against Brest, he was repulsed with great loss, June 8, in Camaret-Bay, and was himself shot in the thigh, of which he died in a few days, much lamented: 'For,' says Burnet, he was a brave and generous man, and a good officer, very fit to animate and encourage inferior officers and soldiers; but he was much too apt to be disconted, and to turn mutinous: so that upon the whole, he was one of those dangerous men that are capable of doing as much mischief as good service.' made a good port, which will annoy our trade very much; and besides, the Hollanders will be uneasy with such neighbours: And though they are very willing to do what they can to carry on the war; yet, if the war comes near them, the common people will force them to make an ill peace, or join with France. If the committee will increase their forces, I hope it is the way to make a good peace. A peace may now be had, but upon such terms, as that, before the present debts are paid, you may be engag ed in another war. It may be thought that I, having no estate, am ready to put the nation to a great charge; but, I do declare, I am as weary of the war as any person, and as desirous to have an end of it: and, though I cannot answer for the success of the war, yet if the house will enable the king to come into the field with a good army, they may be able to preserve Flanders: and therefore, I conclude, to move the committee to augment the Forces for 1694. A Petition of the Quakers rejected.] Dec. 16. A Petition of the people called Quakers was presented to the house, and read; setting forth, That, because of their tender conscience, they cannot take an Oath; so that they have been prosecuted to sequestrations, their estates seized, and bodies imprisoned; and prevented from maintaining their just rights, especially in the courts of chancery and exchequer, without an oath; wherein the law hath not provided for the Petitioners relief: and praying leave to bring in a Bill to admit, that their solemn and respective Answers, Affirmations, and Denials, may be accepted, instead of an Oath, in the courts of chancery and exchequer."—Resolved, That the said Petition be rejected. and carry on a trade, with the subjects of the French king, their majesties declared enemy.6. That the said lord C. betraying and abusing the great trust reposed in him; and the better to enrich himself, and to enable him to go through with his traiterous designs; did embezzle vast quantities of their majesties Stores, and forfeited estates both real and personal; whereby the reduction of that kingdom became more difficult, and the war more burdensome upon England, and the army greatly discouraged for want of their pay; which by due application of the said embezzled stores and estates, might have been remedied.-7. That the said lord C. further traitorously abusing his said great trust, and betraying their majesties honour and interest, did, during his whole government, openly favour and support the Papists in their robberies, and other outrages, committed upon the Protestants; refusing to allow them liberty of taking their legal remedies against the papists.-And that he, the said lord C. was one of the said Lords Justices, during the time that all and every the Crimes and Offences, before set forth, were done and committed." The earl of Bellamont also presented to the house similar Articles of Impeachment against sir Charles Porter knight, another of the late Lords Justices of Ireland. 1. "That be the said lord Coningsby hath traitorously abused the power and authority of his government, and exercised the same tyrannically, discouraging and terrifying the Militia, by framing and imposing on them a new, arbitrary, and illegal Oath, notwithstanding that his majesty left Instructions, when he came from Ireland, for arraying the Militia; which instructions did, among other things, direct, That the oaths, established by act of parliament in England, should be administered to them; but the said lord Coningsby, in the oath he imposed, left out that part which requires them to renounce the jurisdiction of the Pope, and all other foreign powers, purposely to leave room for Papists to come into the militia and further, in his Instructions, ordered all governors of counties to subject the militia to martial law, contrary to the known laws of that kingdom, and his majesty's said Instructions; there being no militia established in that kingdom by law, but has been hitherto a voluntary service.-2. That the said lord C. intending to bring their majesties good Protestant subjects of Ireland into a dislike of their majesties government, did, traiterously, arbitrarily, and against the known laws of the said realm, exact and force Free Quarter for the Army and did also, by force of arms, levy money on the Protestant subjects; rejecting the several proposals made to them, by the most considerable gentry of some counties, for the more regular subsisting a greater number of soldiers than were free-quartered upon them; which discouraged other counties from making the same offers; so that the country thereby became entirely ruined.-3. That the said lord C. for his own private gain and advantage, did traitorously cause great scarcity of provisions in the army before Limerick, by obliging the sutlers to take licences from him at excessive rates, and by laying taxes on all such beer, and other provisions, as went to the camp; whereby, all or most of the sutlers being forced to forsake the service of the camp, provisions of all sorts becaine so very scarce and dear, that great numbers of the soldiers perished for want.-4. That the said lord C. assuming to himself an arbitrary and tyrannical power over the lives, as well as the properties, of their majestics subjects of Ireland, above and against all law, did, in council, traiterously, and by word of mouth, order one Gafney to be hanged Earl of Bellamont. This is a business of without trial, the courts of justice being then consequence, and I cannot trace this lord in open, and who was, at that time, an evidence what he has said. But I have good evidence against one Sweetman, for the barbarous murder to prove the Articles. I am a stranger to meof some of colonel Foulke's soldiers: but the thods, and I know not whether I am right in said Sweetman giving all his real estate, to the forms. I have a charge against sir Charles value of 2001. per annum, to Mr. Culliford, Porter,* all the same but to the charge of besides the sum of 500l. to Mr. Feilding, his Stores, when I have your order for certain the said lord C.'s secretary, for being his bail, gentlemen to come out of Ireland-And so but never prosecuted for the said horrid mur- went on in aggravating the Charge in several der: and the said Gafney was immediately ex- particulars, and exhibited the same articles ecuted, according to the said verbal order.-mutatis mutandis against sir Charles Porter. 5. That the said lord C. during his government Debate thereon.] Lord Coningsby. This is a great Charge. traiterously and violently' are the best words that can be found in it. This matter was before the house last session, and the house seemed satisfied. When I found that my service was turned into faults, myself, with sir Charles Porter, desired a pardon; as those in my station have done before. The king granted it. I was in the country when this lord put in a caveat, because the matter was depending in parliament. But I desired no pardon, and would have had it stopped. Lord Bellamont gave no reason for the caveat, why the pardon should be stopped. The king has sent into Ireland to have an Account of this Charge, which was the same in effect at the council, as this here; and it is now come to a farther accusation. Most of these things called Traiterous,' most Protestants will tell you, preserved Ireland.-(And so he proceeded to several things for his Defence, &c.) If any thing requires farther explana tion from me, I desire a Copy of the Charge. of Ireland, did, by himself, or his agent, traitor- * Lord Chancellor of Ireland, and another ously settle and maintain a Correspondence, of the Lords Justices. VOL. V. 3 G . 210,773. 4s. 5d. be allowed for the extraordinary charge of the office of ordnance, in relation to the Land-Forces for the year 1694. 7. That 31,058/. 8s. 6d. be allowed for the pay of the general officers. 8. That 100,160l. be allowed for Levy-money. 9. That 40,808/. be allowed for transports. 10. That 1,990,781. 16s. 10d. be allowed for the pay of the horse, dragoons and foot, for the year 1694."-And the question being put, That 60,000 be allowed for Hospitals and Contingencies, it passed in the Negative, Yeas 120, Nocs 181. Resolutions with respect to the Navy.] Dec. 21. The house came to the following Resolutions, "That the sum of 2,500,000l. be granted to their majesties for the maintenance of the Fleet; of which 1,000,000l. to be charged upon land. 2. That towards raising the said supply, a duty of 3d. per gallon be laid upon all Foreign Salt. 3. That towards raising the said supply, a duty of 14d. per gallon be laid on all English Salt; to be paid at the salt-works by the master thereof*." "The queen during her administration of the government, had issued a Proclamation for continuing all the seamen, belonging to the first, second and third rate ships in pay, during the winter, which was closed with a solemn promise, that such seamen as yielded obedience to it, should be paid their wages, down to Michaelmas of the current year, before the fleet set sail on the next summer's expedition. Now it appeared by the Account laid before the house, that the sum due for wages alone, to these unhappy men, amounted to no less than 1,036,415. And so great was the discontent which want of money, bad victuals, and worse usage had created amongst them, that neither the severest discipline, nor even death itself (for numbers of them were (†) hanged for desertion, and some for demanding their pay, which was called mutiny) could suppress it. When, therefore, these Estimates were brought in, it was also suggested that a sum of money would be immediately wanted for the use of the Navy; and so apparent was the necessity, that 400,000l. was granted by way of advance; and the said grant was accompanied with a Resolution, importing, That in case the said sum could be raised on the credit of the exchequer in general, the house would take care to see the lenders repaid with interest, after the rate of 7 per cent., under a caution, however, that this manner of proceeding should not be drawn into precedent for the time to come. They also passed an unanimous vote, That 500,000/ should be raised towards the discharge of the Wages due to Seamen. But though the whole kingdom rung with the disorders, abuses and oppressions which had crept into our marine, and even this partial provision in their favour seemed to imply a suspicion, that the Accounts delivered in were not over fairly inade up, the house shewed no disposition to take the State of the Navy into their serious consideration, or to make such wholesome provisions as might Debate on the Bill for frequent Parliaments.] Dec. 22. The ingrossed Bill, from the lords, for the frequent calling and meeting of Parlia ments, was read the third time. Sir Edw. Seymour. The dislike I have to this Bill is, because I think it not for the public service. I know not where the thanks of it are due; but I expected the Speaker would have told you of the great disorder of sending down this bill. If after a bill be once rejected, and you receive it, you have acknowledged, in some sort, their authority greater than your understandings: Where the remedy is worse than the disease. You have shewed your like of frequent parliaments; you have wiped off the rest of your laws in this Bill. But now you charge the clectors trouble to come here, and all we do is to be sent home again. This is all the good of the bill. Though it is faced with other things, yet the intention is dissolving this parliament. The question is much altered from the last age, when they thought to perpetuate themselves: the reason was, they were fitted for their business, but this parlament is not fit, the lords tell you. We give them powers by it, when every day we are complaining of their judicature; and this bill subjects you to their dependence. This is prevent the enormities complained of for the low but well-informed men, offered, in print, time to come; on the contrary, when certain to furnish them with sufficient inatter to warrant an instant inquiry, instead of receiving the countenance and encouragement they deserved, they were brow-beat and repulsed, as if they themselves had been the criminals." Ralph. (f) On which truly melancholy occasion, some of the Tars themselves set forth a Hand-Bill, which began with these words: "All Gentlemen Seamen that are weary of their lives, and desire to serve K. W. on board the Navy royal, shall have, for encouragement, fair promises and no performances, as follow: For each able seamen, 24s. per month, to be paid when he can catch it, and be hanged for mutinying if he demands it, &c." As also a Ballad, in which are the following Stanzas. In But now suppose they had done ill Do keep them in their Father's Throne, Nay, tho' there wants faults they'll find one. the last Stanza are these lines: God bless our noble parliament, very extraordinary. The king calls you, by his in all things great inconveniences, but where : Sir Christ. Musgrave. I hear many objections against the bill that came from the lords. I think it is the right of either house to send bills. It is not regular to take notice of what is done in either house. There is nothing so much for our constitution as frequent parliaments, and yet, with all this, I am not satisfied with the bill. As for the dissolution of this parliament, I like that well, and I think it absolutely necessary; but when parliaments meet, I would have them do something. There is no use for explaining the word holden.' But the last Clause is giving the king power to chuse whether the parliament shall do business. If the king calls a parliament, and 20, 30, or 40 of the people complain of a grievance, the king has justified himself, he has a law to warrant him. If you find that king James the 1st made a long prorogation, and Charles the 1st was long without parliaments, this bill warrants that Clause. The king may call them, and send them home without doing any thing. Col. Titus. It is no objection that this bill came from the lords. I fear not a good thing from them. We have had none a great while. The lords prescribe us times when to meet, and when to be dissolved. St. Paul desired to be dissolved; but if any of his friends had set him a day, he would not have taken it well of them. Though I desire to be dissolved, shall those, that are not so good Christians as myself, not like advice from friends, though they like it ever so well themselves? As for the disobligation to the people; good parliaments they desire, and I never saw long parliaments good oves. A picture new drawn may be like the person it represents; but in time the colours will fade, and it so alters from itself, that no man can know what it represents. Sir John Thompson. I second the motion for rejection of the last Clause of the bill. The greatest argument I have heard against the bill is, that it intrenches upon the king's prerogative. Every body is tender of the prerogative, and I hope we are, too, of our liberties. A word was said, That the reason of the invasion of our liberties was the necessity of present circumstances.' At Oxford, in the Impeachment of Fitzharris, the case was, the lords would not judge commons, their right was to judge none but peers; and that parliament was dissolved *. But had the crown then as much necessity for Money as now, they had sat on. Money is the reason of your sitting; and when that is gone, there is no more need of you. Mr. Boscawen. To the matter of the Proviso. I see no use at all of it, in 3 or 400 years. Prorogations have been useful, so may dissolutions be the only cure, when any difference happens between the two houses, and is a remedy without this Proviso. I am against it. The Clause was rejected.-A motion was made, and the question being put, That the last Clause in the Bill, viz. "That a Parliament shall be understood to be hoiden, although no act or judgment shall pass within the time of their assembly," be left out of the bill; it passed in the negative, 222 to 131., And the bill was rejected, 197 to 172. Conference on the Bill for free and impartial Proceedings in Parliament.] Jan. 5, 1693-4. The following Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the Lords, for rejecting their Amendments to the Bill touching free and impartial Proceedings in Parliament, were read and agreed to by the house, viz. "That the leaving out the last Proviso, with part of the clause preceding, and supplying the whole with words that have no relation to the said Proviso, is not generally practised in cases of Amendment. That the Speaker of the House of Commons, being frequently a person eminent in the law, is by his constant attendance in that chair hidered from his practice in the courts below; so that if he be made incapable of other office or employment, the commons in the choice of their Speaker will prejudice the person they design for that employ. The said Reasons, together with the Bill, were then left with the Lords; and the same day the lords declared by Message, That they did not insist on their Amendments, but had agreed to the said Bill. "Because Protest thereon.] Leave having been asked and given for any lord to dissent to the abovesaid question, the lords whose names are underwritten do dissent as followeth : that an Act that complains of Corruption in former Parliaments, and designs to provide would have a picture like, it must be new against it for the future, ought not, in our opi drawn. And this bill is to celebrate their fuperals more than their nativities. There are If we * See vol. iv. p. 1832. nion, to contain a Clause to allow any one which related to the course sir George Rooke was to steer, was unreasonable and impracticable, yet they did not send up to have it explained, though the Fleet did not sail till the 13th: this looks as if they rather designed an artificial excuse for doing nothing, than the discharge of the trust reposed in them. 6. That sir George Rooke's Narrative, which might have given a farther light to the enquiry into the Admiral's conduct last summer, was not allowed to be read. 7. This Vote seems to approve of the behaviour of the Admirals in the last summer's Expedition, which differs, as we conceive, from the opinion the greatest part of Europe has of it, and may be of ill consequence, by giving our allies no very fair prospect of better success. 8. Because by this Vote is prevented any further Enquiry into the last year's Miscarriage, relating to the Admirals, if any new matter should arise from new evidence; and it may stop any prosecution of the king's in case he should think fit to proceed farther in that affair. (Signed) Bolton, Berkeley of Berkley, Strafforde, Oxford, Ossulstone, Clifford, J. Bridgewater, Devonshire, Stamford." The E. India Company obtains a New Charter.] Jan. 19. The East India Company having on the 11th of November last, obtained a New Charter, whereby they were impowered to raise the sum of 744,000l. to be added to their general joint-stock, the subscription of each person not exceeding 10,000l.; several merchants and others, on the 7th of Dec. petitioned the commons for erecting a new East-India Company. Upon which, the house examined the Charters of the old Company, the book of new subscriptions, the state of their present stock, and the Petition above-mentioned, and after mature deliberation, this day resolved, "That all the subjects of England have equal right to trade to the East Indies, unless prohibited by act of parliament." Protest thereon.] Leave having been asked and given for any lords to dissent from the aforesaid Resolution, the lords whose names are hereafter subscribed dissent in the following Reasons: "1. Whereas by an order of the Admiralty, bearing date the 19th of May last, the Admirals were to direct sir George Rooke, that, after their parting with him, he should steer such a course for his passage to Cadiz, as should be thought most safe by a council of war, with relation as well to the Brest Fleet, if gone out to sea, as the Toulon squadron: it does not appear to us, that there has been any Council of War from the 22d of May to the 4th of June, which was the day the Signals were given for their parting from the Streights Fleet; which last council of war was not called till after the signals for parting were given, and occasioned by the accident of the Turkey Fleet being becalmed. 2. That though it does appear by the result of the council of war of the 4th of June, that they had no intelligence where the enemy was, yet notwithstanding we do not find in that council it was so much as proposed, how to get intelligence where the Brest fleet was, pursuant to the order of the Admiralty of the 19th. 3. We conceive it to be the duty of an Admiral or General to use his utmost endeavours to discover the motions of an enemy without an Order from his superiors, and much more when he has one. 4. Not sending one or more good sailers to find out, if the French Fleet were sailed from The King refuses to pass the Place-bill.] Jan. Brest, as also what course they steered, so as to 25. The Bill for rendering all members of the give intelligence to our main fleet, at a station house of commons incapable of Places of Trust appointed, before they parted with sir George and Profit, which had been brought in the last Rooke, was, as we conceive, the chief cause of session, under the title of a Bill touching free the Misfortune that happened to the Turkey and impartial proceedings in Parliament,' and fleet. 5. It appears by the Admiral's own let-after passing the commons had been rejected ters to the Admiralty of the 14th of July and by the lords, was now again set on foot, and 18th of Sept. last, that a Council of War held went through the lords as well as the comon the 22nd of May, they were of opinion, that mons; so that when the king came this day to that part of the Admiralty's order of the 19th, the house of peers to pass the Land-tax bill, it Order for observing Decorum in the House.] Jan. 22. To the end that all the Debates in this house shall be grave and orderly, as becomes so great an assembly; and that all interruption should be prevented by it: Ordered and declared, "That no Member of this house do presume to make any noise or disturbance, while any member shall be orderly debating, or while any bill, order, or other matter shall be in reading, or opening: and in case of such noise or disturbance, that Mr. Speaker do call upon the member by name making such disturbance, and that every such person shall incur the displeasure of this house." |