Hudson, G. Hume, J. Humphery, Ald. Ingestre, Visct. Inglis, Sir R. H. Johnson, Gen. Langston, J. H. Law, hon. C. E. Lawson, A. Manners, Lord J. Matheson, J. Miles, W. Mitcalfe, H. Neeld, J. Newdegate, C. N. Packe, C. W. Palmer, R. Palmer, G. Pechell, Capt. Rashleigh, W. Rendlesham, Lord TELLERS. Wakley, T. List of the NOES. Baring, rt. hon. W. B. Aeland, T. D. Adderley, C. B. Bouverie, hon. E. P. Bowles, A. Boyd, J. Brisco, M. Brotherton, J. Bruges, W. H. L. Cardwell, E. Buller, C. Howard, P. H. upon the Basilian nuns of Minsk, Those unfortunate persons were obliged to perform work of the severest description, and to which they were totally unaccustomed, in order to increase their sufferings; and such was the extent of the cruelty which they suffered, that it would be a stigma on the age if the statements to which he referred were proved to be true. Such was the extent of the cruelty which it was said had been practised towards those unfortunate nuns, that some persons were disinclined to believe them in consequence; but he regretted to say that the cruelty did not form any such evidence of the want of truth in the statement, to his mind, when he recollected that it was a religious persecution. The Inquisition had long since been put down by the indignant voice of the civilized world-the persecutions on account of differences in religious belief which had taken place in this country formerly, were now universally stigmatizedand the Sovereign whose name was most associated with religious persecution was styled the "bloody Queen Mary ;" and he thought it would be consistent with those feelings for the Members of that House to express their horror at the occurrence of those cruelties in Russia, if they had really taken place. Religious opinion ought not to be made the ground of punishment, nor ought those who differed from the established religion of a country to be placed in the same category with offenders against the State, or with the perpetrators of serious crimes. He believed that they should not be discharging their duty as advocates of humanity and of liberality of opinion, if they allowed such statements to be circulated abroad, without any attempt on their part to ascertain if they were true, and to express their sorrow and regret if it were so. If the accounts which had been given by the nuns were false, there were many opportunities of contradicting them on the part of the Russian Government; for they had been widely circulated for a considerable period in Rome and Naples, in the former of which cities the Emperor had recently been, and therefore must have had an opportunity of de The words added. Question as amended nying them personally. He did not acagreed to. THE POLISH NUNS. MR. COWPER rose to move for copies of despatches received by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, containing information about the persecution inflicted cuse the Emperor of Russia of being personally cognizant of the tortures which had been said to have been inflicted upon those unfortunate nuns; but he was anxious to ascertain if it were true that such cruelties had been exercised in the Emperor's dominions. He knew that one of the evils gave a history of the persecution, which had lasted seven years, and was subscribed with the name of the Abbess Makrena Mieczyslawsk, and certified by Maximillien Ryllo, the rector of the Propaganda, by the Abbe Jelowicki, and the Abbe Leitner. It would appear from that statement that the account which the hon. Member gave was not only correct, but that even greater cruelties than he had mentioned had been committed. It appeared that from 1838 to 1845 those persecutions continued, and that out of sixty nuns who had suffered those horrid barbarities, only a few sur of a despotic Government, such as that of Russia, was, that the subordinate officers who executed the laws and ordinances of the State, were not subject to the same responsibility as in this country, There was no public press to observe upon their conduct, and no such freedom of observation upon them as in this country; so that those occurrences might possibly have taken place without the knowledge of the Imperial Government. These convents were establishments from which public observation was excluded; and it might happen that the cruelties which had been described had taken place without the autho-vived. It appeared that those females were rity or sanction of the Government, and therefore that the Government had never heard of their occurrence and should have never heard of them but for the fortunate occurrence of the escape of the three nuns who had survived the cruelties. He trusted that, under all those circumstances, the Government would have no objection to lay on the Table of the House any information which they possessed with respect to those proceedings, for he thought that the public had a right to have as correct a knowledge as possible of these facts. If the information were not correct, they would have the advantage of knowing the reports of these cruelties were unfounded; but, if they were correct, he felt it his duty to raise his voice in deprecation of those offences against humanity and of religion, in the name of which they had been perpetrated. MR. WYSE seconded the Motion, and said that the statement which was the subject of the hon. Member's Motion, had excited considerable attention, not only in Germany and other countries, but in Russia. employed in chains at public works, and in a description of employment only fitted for men; that they were obliged to break stones to build a palace for the apostate bishop; and that they were daily beaten in the presence of the soldiery, and ultimately subjected to atrocities, a recital of which it would not become the House to hear detailed. He should be sorry to see that House interfering in the affairs of other countries; but a country like this, possessed of such free institutions, and to which Europe looked, ought to express its feeling of sympathy with a gallant and unfortunate nation who had always adhered to their national religion; and as every one in that House respected adherence to conscientious dictates, they would, he trusted, express their approval of the virtuous resistance of those females to tenets which they did not agree to. SIR ROBERT PEEL: I am not enabled to communicate to the House any despatches which could throw light upon the painful subject to which the Motion of the hon. Gentleman refers. Her Majesty's A statement appeared in the Frank- Government has not received any report or fort Journal of February 17th, a paper despatch from the Representative of this which was influenced by Russia, to the country at the Court of St. Petersburgh, effect that the ukase of the Emperor, upon and I am, therefore, without any authentic which it was said the cruelties had been in information upon the subject. The only a great degree founded, was not authentic: communication having reference to this that the bishop, Siemasko, was not bishop statement of which we are in possession, is of Wilna, but of Polosk; and that no such a communication from the British Consul convent existed in Minsk as that described; at Warsaw, who is a most respectable and and that, in fact, the whole statement was able gentleman; and he states that, having an exaggeration or falsehood, put forward seen reports in the French newspapers of for political purposes. That article was barbarities (for I can apply no other term) replied to by certain Polish and Lithuanian said to have been committed in Poland exiles in Paris; and he (Mr. Wyse) held in upon a community of nuns, he thought it his hand a statement, published in Brus- his duty to write to the Secretary for sels, by the Marquis de Beauffort, which Foreign Affairs, to say that he had not left a strong impression that these cruelties, been able to ascertain that any such occurunheard of in the history of modern Eurence had taken place in Poland; and he rope, had taken place. The statement added that it was his confident belief that the reports were either altogether without | vise, whatever may be our individual feelfoundation, or greatly exaggerated. That ings, to refrain from interfering in the is the whole of the information which has domestic concerns of other nations. How reached us, and it is, therefore, impossible have we been occupied for four or five hours that Her Majesty's Government can lay on preceding the introduction of the hon. the Table any further information on the Member's Motion? We have been discussubject; and on that ground it is evidently sing an allegation that a certain number of impossible that I can agree to the Motion the inhabitants of this country, subjects of of the hon. Member. It would cause me the Queen, were employed--no charge the deepest regret if I heard that there having been made against them, they being was any foundation for the statement to in a state of pauperism-in grinding bones, which the hon. Gentleman refers; and I some of which bones were supposed to have must say I certainly have a strong persua- been human bones, and that the means of sion that nothing of the kind has taken subsistence afforded them were so scanty, place with the sanction or authority or that, finding some of the bones in a deknowledge of the Government of Russia. composed state, so that the marrow could I understand, from a private communication be extracted, a general engagement took from the Representative of the Emperor of place amongst them in order to get possesRussia in this country, that when the Em- sion of those decomposed bones; and the peror was recently in Rome, the subject party who obtained possession of a portion, was mentioned to him by the Pope; that hid that portion, in order that he might at the mention of such reports greatly sur- a favourable opportunity use it for food. prised the Emperor; that he said if any- Now, I ask, can anything be worse than thing of the kind had taken place, it was that statement? and yet, should we not without his knowledge or sanction; and resent it if the French Chambers thought it that he should cause a strict inquiry to be necessary to take notice of this circummade, as to whether such occurrences had stance? Should we not require of them taken place or not. If anything of the kind to have confidence in the House of Comtook place, I believe that it was without mons and the justice of our Executive the sanction of the Government of Russia; Government? And I ask would not that and I am confident that a strict inquiry confidence be justified? My right hon. into the truth of those reports will be in- Friend the Secretary of State for the Home stituted by the Russian Government. I Department has given directions to put an would strongly advise, therefore, every in-end to that operation; but that is beside dividual Member of this House to suspend the question. No other Government has a his judgment altogether with respect to right to interfere in our domestic concerns. these reports. It is possible that they may As our example would be looked to by other be-and I hope the results of inquiries on countries, we ought not to establish the the part of the Russian Government will precedent of interfering in the domestic prove that they are-without foundation, affairs of other nations. I repeat the hope or grossly exaggerated. In our capacity that every Gentleman will suspend his as a branch of the Legislature, I would judgment on this subject, as it is highly strongly advise that we should not set the probable that the reports are untrue or example of interference with other Govern- grossly exaggerated. We ought to rest ments, or take any course which would be satisfied with the assurance of the Russian calculated to present that appearance. I Government that an inquiry will be instiknow how impossible it is for any Minister tuted. I am in possession of no despatches of the Government to express the feelings which would throw any light on the subwhich would naturally arise from hearing ject that I could lay on the Table of the such statements as that to which the Mo-House; and that will perhaps induce the tion relates. I cannot divest myself of my hon. Member to withdraw his Motion. On individual feelings with respect to it; and other grounds I strongly deprecate the I must declare that if the statement were establishment of a precedent which would true, it would cause me the greatest regret be fraught with danger, and which might -not to use a stronger expression-that be followed by other countries with different such a violation of the rights of conscience feelings from that which actuates hon. and of humanity should have taken place. | Members to bring forward this Motion; That is my feeling, as an individual, with and I hope that we shall not, therefore, respect to this subject; but as regards the set the example of intermeddling with the House of Commons, I would strongly ad- domestic concerns of neighbouring States. MR. COWPER said, that after the state- | ence, in deference to our representations ment of the right hon. Baronct he would and the dictates of humanity, liberated that withdraw his Motion; and he trusted, noble man and his fellow Ministers. Confrom the right hon. Baronet's statement, sidering that on the will of the Russian Authat there would be an investigation into tocrat the destinies of so many of our felthe truth of the reports. low creatures depended, he thought that nothing would be worthy of that House than to adopt a course of dignified supplication. It was impossible to believe that no foundation existed for the reports and statements circulated abroad; he trusted however that, for the future at least, a more temperate policy would be pursued by the MR. T. S. DUNCOMBE said, that Russian authorities, and that the magnawhen the Emperor of Russia was in this nimity of the Emperor would mitigate that country, the Parliament agreed to an Ad-persecuting spirit which it was always so difficult to restrain. The persecution of SIR R. PEEL repeated that it was the opinion of our Consul at Warsaw that the report was unfounded, or grossly exaggerated; and that he understood it was the intention of the Emperor to cause an investigation to be made into the truth of the report. the Basilian nuns was not directed, as had been supposed by the noble Lord, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in another place, against the professors of a new form of faith: they belonged to the United Greek Church, who accepted and had always used the Greek ritual, though in communion with the Church of Rome, in the same manner as the Syrian, Coptic and Armenian Churches followed their respective rituals, although acknowledging the supremacy of the See of St. Peter. The hon. Member concluded by expressing a hope that the union of the two Churches contemplated and almost realized by the Council of Florence, might one day be ac dress to Her Majesty, expressing their gratification that the Emperor of Russia had come to this country, at great personal inconvenience, to visit Her Majesty, and expressing a hope that the opportunity would be taken to improve the amicable relations between Russia and this country. The people of England hoped that they should be able to ascertain whether these atrocities had taken place or not. He was sorry to find that the case of the Andover Union had been mixed up with the atrocities committed upon the nuns at Minsk. The English Parliament had instituted inquiries into the state of the Andover Union; and he hoped that they would hear of the Emperor of Russia instituting inquiries into the atrocities per-complished. It had been frequently repetrated upon the nuns of Minsk. He trusted that the House would hear that there was not the slightest foundation for the statements which had appeared in the public organs of intelligence, instead of there being exaggeration," as the right hon. Baronet called it, in these statements and he hoped that on a future day the right hon. Baronet would be in a position to give them more authentic information on the subject than it was now in his power to afford. 66 MR. M. GIBSON said, that however desirable it might be to abstain from all interference in the internal affairs of foreign countries, such had undoubtedly not been the policy of Great Britain in reference to the slave trade. MR. P. HOWARD reminded the House of an occasion on which his hon. Friend below him (Mr. T. Duncombe) had successfully appealed to their sympathies; he alluded to the case of his noble Friend Prince Polignac; and yet the French nation and Government, whose sensitiveness was proverbial, far from resenting our interfer marked, that the less men differed the HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, March 6, 1846. MINUTES.] PETITIONS PRESENTED. From the High Sheriff and Grand Jury of the County of Cavan, and from Leitrim, in favour of the Protection of Life (Ireland) (No. 2) Bill.-From Bossington, and several other places, for Protection to the Agricultural Interest. PROTECTION OF LIFE (IRELAND) BILL. The EARL of ST. GERMANS, having presented a petition from the High Sheriff and Grand Jurors of Leitrim in favour of the Bill, said, he thought perhaps the most convenient course he could pursue would | trate, before whom he was to be taken bebe to explain the Amendments intended to fore noon the next day, the power of disbe proposed by Her Majesty's Government, missing him if he was satisfied with the and afterwards to state his views of the reasons he gave for being out of his House, various Amendments proposed by different or if not of committing him to gaol. But noble Lords. The first Amendment which that, it appeared to him, would place the he intended, on the part of the Govern- magistrate in a very invidious situation. ment, to ask their Lordships' concurrence In all probability the magistrate would be in, had been suggested to him by a noble either the landlord or the near neighbour Lord a Member of the other House of Par- of the person arrested, and he would be liament. The effect of it would be to give loth to take on himself the responsibility of the Bill, in some degree, a retrospective committing a man, if he could give anyeffect, by enabling the Lord Lieutenant to thing like a plausible excuse for his having charge on a district already proclaimed been out. But it was intended that petty under the existing law the expenses of sessions should be held once a week at the supernumerary police now employed least in every proclaimed barony: he there. The second Amendment was to thought it better that such a prisoner Clause 17, for the purpose of including should be brought before the petty sessions, tea and coffee-shops in the operation of and that the magistrates at such petty the clause; for he saw no reason why sessions might liberate, or bail, or commit places where tea and coffee, though to gaol these offenders when brought before not malt liquors and spirits, were sold, them. These were all the Amendments of should be exempted from visits of the the Lord Chief Justice; and when the noble police. The next was a proviso that all and learned Lord saw the Amendments of offences under this Act should be tried at the Government, he (the Earl of St. Gerassizes of Oyer and Terminer, or general mans) could not help thinking the noble gaol delivery. He now came to the Amend- and learned Lord would see that in spirit, ments of the Lord Chief Justice. The first if not in letter, they embodied the objects proposed that no proclamation of a district the noble and learned Lord had in view. should take place until application had With respect to the Amendment of the noble been made for that purpose to the Lord and learned Lord opposite (Lord Brougham) Lieutenant by three justices of the peace respecting the change of venue, he (the for the same county, in a form provided. Earl of St. Germans) must say he hoped But to him (the Earl of St. Germans) it the noble and learned Lord would withdraw appeared that where arbitrary power was it, and bring the subject forward in a gevested in the Executive Government, it neral and comprehensive form, providing was better that the whole and undivided for the removal of the venue both in responsibility for the exercise of such cases of misdemeanors and of felonies. power should be left on the Executive. In cases of felonies the prisoner had the There were official reports made to the Ex- right of challenge, but not in those of ecutive Government daily of the outrages misdemeanors; of the two, therefore, a committed in every part of Ireland; and he power of changing the venue was more thought, therefore, the power alluded to wanted in the former, which the noble and should be confined solely, and without any learned Lord did not provide for, than intervention, to the Lord Lieutenant. He in the latter, which he did. It was did not propose, therefore, to adopt that well known that the main difficulty in GoAmendment, or to introduce another in its vernment trials in Ireland was the proplace. With respect to the next Amend- curing of witnesses. No change of venue ment of the Lord Chief Justice, he should could secure the personal safety of a witbe most anxious to introduce some provi- ness. On his return to his home he would sion to carry into effect the spirit at least be subject to the same ill will as if the of the Amendment of the noble and cause had been tried at his own county learned Lord. As the Bill stood at pre- town. He hoped, therefore, the noble and sent, an individual who was taken into learned Lord would consent to bring in custody by the police, being out of his some general and comprehensive Bill. Now, House between the hours of sunset and with respect to the Amendments of the sunrise in a proclaimed district, must re- noble Earl opposite (Earl Grey), the object main in custody until he was delivered in of the first was to deprive the Judges of the due course of law. The Lord Chief Jus- power of transportation for being out after tice's Amendment went to give the magis- the hours proscribed in the Bill. The |