it was proposed they should operate; but of running on these lines, or taking advanin some of these instances, two-sometimes tage of them in some other way, it would three, and, in one or two instances, be almost useless for Parliament to authofive or six-separate companies were pro- rize a company to make a competing line; posed to be placed under one management, in fact, it would be almost impossible for a whereby the competition would be dimi- company to raise sufficient capital for such nished on which the public had heretofore a purpose. This was sufficient to prove to had to rely as a security for reasonable the House that the system of amalgamarates for traffic, and for commercial inter- tion, as now going on, should be closely course between one part of the country and and carefully watched. Then came the another. Many of these Bills were likely question, how this could be most efficiently to be opposed; and with reference to such, done? It had appeared to the Committee, it would be possible to obtain sufficient and of whom he had the honour to be Chairaccurate information as to their general bear- man, that in one of two ways alone could ings upon the country. Others were not op- this be effected-either by leaving these posed, and to them public attention had not Bills to be dealt with by the Group Combeen drawn; for the public attention was mittees, or by referring them to a Select more drawn just now towards new railway Committee. The objection to the Group projects than to these Amalgamation Bills, Committees was, that they could only get which, not having to go through the same the necessary information in those cases Standing Orders, were apt to pass through where the amalgamations were opposed; the House before the parties affected by without obtaining power from the House, them were at all aware of the effect they they could not compel the production of would have upon commerce. Not only in papers and witnesses; and many railway railways was this taking place, but in ca- companies would consider it unfair to sadnals: he held in his hand a list of canals dle them with the expense of witnesses which it was proposed to amalgamate with not necessary for their particular cases. railways. The object of this was most If the hon. Member the Chairman of the manifest; the old system of carriage, water Committee of Selection could have formed carriage, had been found to be so inconve- a Group Committee of Members who would nient a competitor with railways, that it have carried with them the confidence of had become absolutely necessary for the the House on a question of such importance, one to buy up the other, and for the two and power had been given them to send to be amalgamated under one company. for papers and witnesses, he, for one, He did not say that this was necessarily should have been perfectly satisfied. At an evil, for he knew of instances where it the same time, that would be an unusual had been conducive to the public interests mode of dealing. Then came the quesfor railways and canals to be united; at the tion, whether the subject was one that same time, it required the most careful could properly be referred to the Comexamination before the House permitted mittee moved for by the hon. Member such things to take place. It was quite for Inverness (Mr. Morrison). To this obvious that a canal would not be bought he should not object, provided the hon. up by a railway, nor a railway by canal, Member for Inverness would consent to unless with a view to the increase of pro- take the subject of amalgamations into fits, by raising the rates of carriage on one consideration at the commencement of the or the other. Such was the importance sittings of his Committee; because it was of this question, that if the House did not extremely important that no unjust delay place proper restrictions and regulations should take place. But if these Bills could on these companies, there would very soon not come on while towards the middle or be a connected link of communication from the end of that Committee's proceedings. one end of the country to the other, which it might occasion their being put off for would for ever put a stop to competition. this Session. Therefore, by the advice of There was now a Bill before the House, which, the Committee on which he had the honour when looked into, appeared to establish a to serve, he had given notice of the preconnected link from Scotland to the city sent Motion. The chief object of the Comof London in one direction, and from Scot-mittee was to obtain from those parts of land to Bristol in the other, almost all un- the country chiefly interested in those der the same control. And it was quite amalgamations that information which the clear that, unless provision was made in House was not yet in possession of. It these Bills, giving other parties the power was true the House was in possession of

information which it had most sadly neg-vestigation of the proposed Select Comlected, and not treated with the deference mittee. If the Select Committee should it deserved the Report of the Board of lay down certain general rules under which Trade of last Session, which was well they would permit certain railway comworthy the consideration of every Com-panies to amalgamate, and stated certain mittee of the House. Had the Committees circumstances under which they would not of last Session paid a little more attention allow them to do so, he (Sir G. Clerk) to that Report, they would have done their thought that they would be doing little duty more effectually to the public; he more than giving their particular sanction to knew instances where neglect of attention the principles laid down in the Twenty-first to the recommendations of that Report had Report of the Board of Trade last year. If involved very serious consequences to the that was the object of his hon. Friend, parties. The House had not thought fit it would be extremely desirable. After last Session to attend to that Report, and having done that, and after having adopted had passed measures in direct contraven- the principles laid down in the Report of tion of it; and there was no reason to be- the Board of Trade, they could not throw lieve that the House had changed its any objection to the amalgamation of lines mind. It was, therefore, chiefly on these having the same interests; but when the considerations, and believing that the lines were not identified, and where the House was in want of further information, interests of the companies who projected that he brought forward his Motion. them were opposed to each other, and where a company would be induced, under the fear of competition, to combine with another for the purpose of self-defence, in order to maintain a monopoly with the existing company, and to rivet that monopoly closer, it was quite clear that in such a case the interests of that company and the interests of the public might be at variance. His great difficulty was the manner in which these general rules, after being laid down, should be applied in each individual case. It would depend on the peculiar circumstances of each case. He was afraid that his hon. Friend would only be able to get over the first part of his object, namely, to call the attention of the House to the recommendation of the Board of Trade last year. He SIR G. CLERK said, that the question (Sir G. Clerk) hoped that, before whatto which the Member for North Lan-ever tribunal the decision of each individual cashire called the attention of the House was one of paramount importance, because, as was said in a discussion arising out of the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, unless they were now prepared to take certain precautions against the abuse of those powers which Government granted to railway companies, in the course of a few years they would find all means of communication vested in the hands of certain companies who would be placed beyond the control of the Legislature. But he confessed that though he thought it desirable that a Committee should be formed for the purpose of laying down certain principles of railway legisla-rangement, which did not involve that netion, yet he did not gather from the speech of his hon. Friend what appeared to him (Sir G. Clerk) to be the object of the in

MR. ENTWISLE said, it appeared to him highly desirable that some rule should be laid down by the House, in order that railway companies might know, before their application to Parliament, on what grounds they were to proceed in order that their measures might pass. It would be found on investigation that the acts of amalgamation proposed were, in many instances he might almost say, most of them-of a purely defensive character. He was sure that, if such a Committee were formed, the principles laid down by them would be not only beneficial to the companies interested in the different amalgamations, but also to the country generally. He would most cordially support the Motion of the hon. Member for North Lancashire.

case should come, that tribunal would look with extreme jealously to all those proposals of amalgamation, because it was impossible, in the present state of railway speculation, to know what might be the effect of those amalgamations some years hence. He thought that the objection of the Board of Trade was a just and a sound one, namely, the inconvenience that would arise from a premature decision on the proposed amalgamations. One advantage would arise from a postponement of the decision on the proposed amalgamations, for there were many modes in which an amalgamation might take place by private ar

cessary degree of permanence which arose from Parliamentary sanction. He therefore hoped that, after a Committee should

be appointed to act upon the principles es- of Ministerial interference, adopting sometablished by the Select Committee, they thing of the French system, they need not would look with extreme jealousy to those be so jealous. He thought the Amalgaproposals. The Board of Trade pointed mation Committee would report that it was out strong objections to extensive amalga- impossible to lay down any general rules mations last year. Their recommendations till they got the Report of the other Comwere carried into effect, and their sug-mittee. His impression was, that the apgestions as to the great public inconvenience that might arise from extensive amalgamations had their due weight. If the House did not not believe that the Committee, which was moved for by the hon. Member for Inverness, would have under its consideration a sufficiently wide field of inquiry, he thought that this subject might be very fairly submitted to them. But, considering the number of questions which they had to deal with, he was inclined to support the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Lancashire.

pointment of Committees, and the attempt to legislate through Committees, would produce inefficient legislation; and that it was proper to compel the Government to take this as well as other subjects under their consideration, and to bring forward measures for regulating railway legislation upon their own responsibility as a Government. Till then they would have only inefficient legislation upon this subject. It was natural that the Government should prefer to devolve this duty upon Committees of this House, rather than take it upon themselves, as it was a very awkward subject to deal with; but he believed that

ment should undertake it, they would get only inefficient legislation. He did not object to the Committee, but he should have preferred the other course.

MR. F. T. BARING agreed with the right hon. Baronet that this subject was one, no doubt, of great difficulty and im-until the House determined that Governportance. The question, however, embraced two points: first, how they ought to lay down rules for the present Session; and, secondly, how they ought to provide for future cases. He doubted, with regard SIR R. PEEL said, the right hon. Gento Railway Bills now before the House, tleman seemed to think that Her Majesty's whether another proposition would not Government had neglected the great subprovide a better plan, namely, that of se-ject of railway legislation. [Mr. BARING: lecting a Committee of five, to whom all Amalgamation Bills should be referred, and giving them the power, in cases of unopposed Bills, of sending for witnesses, and of communicating with the Board of Trade. If the Committee now moved for were appointed, the House would perhaps get no Report this Session, or at best a very hurried Report, which could be of no The right hon. Baronet (Sir G. Clerk) had said, that the Report of the Board of Trade last year had not been sufficiently attended to by the House. That very Report stated, as to laying down general rules for amalgamation, that "nothing could be more difficult than to lay down any general principles by which all amalgamations should be regulated." They would have the same uncertainty now; and he was afraid they could not settle the rules for amalgamation until they had settled the general principles of railway legislation. If they were prepared to rely upon the principle of competition alone, then following that one principle, they must reject all amalgamations; for if they allowed amalgamation at all, they violated the principle of competition. But if they reserved some power

present - use.

No, no!] He thought that the House ought to share this reproach with the Government. He only wished that hon. Members would read the able Report on this subject made by the Committee of the Board of Trade last year. The Board laid down certain principles, which they considered proper to be applied to cases of amalgamation brought before Parliament, admitting that there were cases in which it might be for the public advantage that they should be relaxed; and there was no doubt there were cases in which amalgamation, under proper conditions, would be for the advantage of the public, as well as of the railway companies. The recommendations of the Board of Trade, however, were not acceded to by the House; and he only asked the House to share the reproach of the present state of things with the Government. The House was actually jealous of the interference of the Government; the House overruled, in many cases, the decisions of the Board of Trade, and it would perceive in this a reason why Her Majesty's Government wished that the interference of the Executive should be called for by a decision of the House of Commons as necessary for the public interests,

rather than it should, a second time, interfere | thing to hinder companies from amalgaon its own Motion. He could not help think- mating before the House came to a detering that there was some difficulty in adopt- mination. The question of amalgamation ing the proposition of his hon. Friend (Mr. depended on a principle of the appropriaW. Patten). The House had adopted the tion of fixed capital embarked in railways, Motion of the hon. Member for Inverness; or on the principle of taking some security and if they had another Committee to con- against monopoly. The hon. Member for sider the principles of amalgamation, he Lancashire complained that no attention feared they might have different reports was paid to the Report of the Committee from each, and a conflict of opinions. last year; but would the hon. Member alThey had adopted a proposition with re- low him to remind the hon. Member that spect to railways that had termini within he was the first to surrender the Report? the city of London and the metropolis, to Other hon. Members were greatly imreserve them for a separate inquiry by a pressed with the weight and importance Commission appointed by the Crown; and that attached to it, and thought that the perhaps it might not be inexpedient Government ought to give it their serious to pursue a similar course here, by ap- attention. He thought the most complete pointing a Committee not a Commission, surrender of the Reports of the Board of on the subject of amalgamation, so far as Trade, and of the noble Lord who had disregarded Bills now presented; that a Com- played so much ability in drawing them mittee should be appointed to consider, not up, had proceeded from Her Majesty's the principles of amalgamation generally, Government. The blame of not attending but a Special Committee to consider Bills to the Report of the Board of Trade now introduced, in which amalgamation is should not be thrown on the House geneproposed, and to suggest such general rally, when the Government were the first principles as seemed most applicable to to throw over the laborious and very able such cases. This would not bring the investigations of that body. Committee into conflict with the Committees of the hon. Member for Inverness; and he feared that, unless a distinct line were drawn between the Committee now moved for and that of the hon. Member for Inverness, there might be a conflict of opinion, which would involve the House in great difficulty.

MR. F. MAULE wished to call the attention of the House to a difficulty which existed. The Committee moved for by his hon. Friend (Mr. Patten), and the one appointed on the Motion of the Member for Inverness, ought to be kept distinct, and the report of the one ought not to interfere with that of the other. The difficulty which he saw was, that the opinions of the Committee now moved for might clash with those of the Group Committees, who were to decide on the proposed amalgamations. In his opinion the Committee of his hon. Friend should lay down certain rules of amalgamation, and the Group Committees would consider the proposals subject to those rules. From what he had seen of the Amalgamation Bills before the House this present Session, it appeared to him quite clear that all further progress in them should be suspended until the House should come to some defined determination. VISCOUNT EBRINGTON said, that they ought to recollect that amalgamation was a voluntary act, and that there was no

SIR R. PEEL said, the noble Lord was labouring under a great mistake in supposing that the Government had interfered with respect to any Private Bill. When it became a question whether the Government, as a Government, should interfere with a Private Bill, although it had been recommended by a Committee, and had received the sanction of the Board of Trade, he should be sorry to see such interference. But when there was a question between the promoters of two Bills before Parliament, and the opinion of the Board of Trade itself was to be supported, he remembered coming down to support the decision of the Board of Trade.

VISCOUNT EBRINGTON alluded to an early discussion which took place at the commencement of the Session.

MR. H. HINDE would have liked to have seen the weight of the Government displayed more energetically in favour of the recommendations of the Board of Trade, which he thought were made with great judgment and discretion. He thought that the suggestion which had been just thrown out by the right hon. Baronet would remove a great many of the objections which he had entertained to the proposition of his hon. Friend the Member for North Lancashire; but he considered it would be a still greater improvement if the proposed Committee were made to per