men in any country-such men, as Mr. Loyd, Mr. Norman, Mr. Horsley Palmer, whose scientific knowledge was brought to bear on the subject, supported by the weight of their practical experience. The hon. Member for Kilkenny had talked of accuracy, but he should be careful how he mentioned that; for just to show how correct the hon. Member was sometimes, a recent French author of eminence on finance, had stated that there was an error of 36,000,000l. in the public accounts of this country. But, on inquiry, he found that the French author's mistake arose from his having taken as his authority a resolution moved in that House by the hon. Member, which, however, was negatived without a division. (Mr. Hume: No such thing.] He had the work. [Mr. Hume: So have I]. To this he could himself bear testimony, that the hon. Member had made an error of 3,000,000l. in the accounts of one year, thus confounding the net and the gross revenue. Before he sat down he would venture to remind the House of the triumphant success of his funding operation, not that he claimed any merit to the Government for it, beyond their having adopted a right principle-a principle by means of which the transaction had been completed on lower terms than had ever been known before. Now it was completed, he knew it would still be attacked, because it interfered with private profits and individual interests. But although the carrying out of the system had exposed the Government to attack and himself to obloquy, he was content to abide by the result. As regarded the Scotch system of banking, he begged, to observe that the Scotch banks had for a long time been extremely few indeed, and their extended number had taken place so recently, that experience was still wanting to show the results of the system of free competition in that country.

Mr. Hume begged, in explanation, to state, that he never had objected to the Usury-laws' relaxation, or had said that they made money dear; he had been, from his first entry into this House, the steady advocate of the repeal of those laws, and, twenty years ago, had voted with Mr. Serjant Onslow in all his motions for their repeal. What he had said was this, that as the fluctuation of the interest of money, and of the rate of discount, were rendered greater by the repeal of the

to render money, the standard of value, more steady in its value, if possible; which he repeated. He was much surprised at the Chancellor of the Exchequer's allusion to an error of 36,000,000l. in the public accounts, as if to state to the House, that, as he (Mr. Hume) had formerly made an error to so large an amount, the House ought to receive with caution any statement from him. He (Mr. Hume) stated to the House and the country, that, in his examination of the public accounts for 1793 to 1822, he had discovered that 36,000,000l., part of 600,000,000l. borrowed during that time, the account of the Exchequer had omitted to give credit to 36,000,000l. of that amount; and he had, in his finance resolutions submitted to the House, exposed that error. Monsieur Baillie, the Inspector-general of Finance, the foreign author alluded to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had in his book alluded to that error; and the right hon. Gentleman spoke as if I had made a mistake, which the French author had adopted. The House would be surprised to learn, what the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not know, that Mr. Herries, the Secretary to the Treasury, took the trouble to inquire into the causes of that extraordinary error, and, having discovered the causes, had given him (Mr. Hume) an explanation, which the House would immediately comprehend. Every loan was made payable at the Bank of England, and an allowance of five per cent. made to all subscribers who paid up their instalments of the loan. For example: if a loan of 5,000,000l. were contracted for, and five per cent. discount allowed, the Bank would only receive 4,750,000l., and that amount only would be paid into the public Exchequer, and credited in the public account; and it would be easily calculated, that the discount on 600,000,000l. or 700,000,000l. of loans would amount to about 30,000,0001. There was another item causing that error of 36,000,000l., which the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not seem to know. When Mr. Pitt borrowed 5,000,000l. for the Emperor of Germany, the money was paid into the Bank of England, and thence remitted to Vienna; the principal sum was never entered in the accounts of the Exchequer, although charge of interest, when we took upon us the debt, was entered by them. Those 5,000,000l., with the discount and other items, had occasioned the error which he (Mr. Hume) had found out. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was, therefore, altogether wrong, and he, and the French author, who had stated the fact on his (Mr. Hume's) authority, were quite right. So much for the attempt of the right hon. Gentleman to impugn his (Mr. Hume's) authority, and draw the attention of the House off his own delinquency, in having brought the finances of the country into their present discreditable state, and in having delayed his measure respecting the Bank of Ireland to so late a period of the Session.

Mr. Villiers rose merely to call the attention of the House to one observation which had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because he thought, considering the period of the Session, and the state of the country, it was the most important and remarkable that he had heard in that House. He referred to what he had said on the question raised by the hon. Member for Kilkenny, as to the cause of that disturbance of their monetary affairs which now filled all men's minds with anxiety and alarm; that it was his deliberate conviction, after duly considering the subject, and bringing to it all the experience he had as a public man, and all the information he had acquired of late years at the head of the finances of this country, that the cause of all our danger and difficulty was the present state of the corn-laws. This, he thought, was one of the most important declarations in this House on the subject that had ever been made, and one which he trusted, would invite the serious consideration of all thinking men to the subject; for he would ask if ever greater alarm prevailed in the country than there did at the present moment, at the prospects of the next year-whether men were not watching the atmosphere at every instant of the day, and whether they did not believe that the peace or confusion of the country did not almost hang upon the accidents of a cloud; and why was this, but owing to the dependence to which harvest of their own country; for with the present commerce in the necessary article of food with other countries, a scarcity of their own supply of food was nearly fatal to them; and now, that they were on the eve of a second year of deficiency, every man in his senses was terrified at the conVOL. L. {Third

sequences. But he wished the House now to mark the predicament in which the country was placed. A Minister of the Crown, at the head of their finances, declares publicly, that this awful state of things is entirely to be ascribed to the Corn-laws. And yet, what man who has reflected on the proceedings of this House during this Session, upon this question, and who considers how the Legislature is constituted believes, for one moment, that there is even a distant chance of the evil being removed? Now, that was what the country ought to consider. There was an enormous evil threatening the peace, happiness, and security of the country, and yet, under their present system, there was no chance of its removal. All that they had in prospect was a Government directly opposed to any change, or one that it cannot stake its existence upon effecting, though deemed essential to the wel. fare of the country. How long was that to go on? How long would any man consent to sit in a Cabinet impressed with the fearful evils of these laws, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer appeared to be, and not make it a condition of his remaining in that Cabinet that those laws shall be altered? How long shall it be tolerated that Governments succeed each other, each aware of the mischief and iniquity of these laws, and yet none shall be allowed to liberate the people from their oppression? He saw no prospect of this mischief being mitigated, but by a Cabinet identified with the removal of the Cornlaws. This might bring some to their senses, and there might then be a chance of being saved from the confusion which they were now constantly being threatened on their account. He, indeed, now did not see how this could be avoided, after the alarming but very just observations of a Chancellor of the Exchequer, though he was bound to say, that in reply to the hon. Member for Kilkenny, he thought the right hon. Gentleman had a little exceeded the fact, for though, doubtless, the sudden and extensive demand for

and which had deranged all the money transactions of the country, yet it was quite just to charge the Bank with an aggravation of the present evils, for not having been warned by that circumstance, and, in conformity with their own rule, not to have in time restricted instead of increased their issues, for the accommoda

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the attainment of an object which he for one had never been sanguine enough to expect in its present shape; and it must ever be considered as one of the proudest events of the noble Lord's political career, to have established that influence in the councils of France, which had procured the settlement of a question which, for upwards of 150 years, had been a constant matter of dispute between the two countries. And coupling with this measure the noble Lord's late exertions relative to the suppression of the traffic in slaves, and

Bill read a first and second time, committed, and the report was then received.

Mr.

TREATMENT OF CHARTISTS.] Hume called the attention of the House to the petition which he had presented yesterday, from Henry Vincent, and others, confined in Monmouth gaol, relative to the treatment which they had experienced since the time of their committal. It was important that the rule with respect to persons committed for political offences should be properly under

ciations with Spain, by the clearance from the seas of all slave vessels under the Spanish flag, it was not too much to say, that in obtaining this convention with France, the noble Lord has added another laurel to the wreath which he had won on former occasions. This measure would undoubtedly produce the most amicable and satisfactory results, and would enable the fishermen in the narrow seas, to pursue their lawful avocations without fear or the restraint, to which, for the last ten years, they had so often been subject. It would also prevent the mortifying circumstance of witnessing foreign boats casting their nets, as it were, within the length of a boat hook of the British shores, when our own boats were not permitted to approach those of France within two or three leagues. It would also prevent those unfortunate collisions, which had so constantly taken place, between the fishing vessels of both countries, and which, from the superior size and equipment of the French boats, always terminated to the disadvantage and loss of our own. He would therefore offer to the noble Lord the thanks of the fishermen generally, and more particularly those of the Kent and Sussex coasts, whose complaints had invariably been attended to by the noble Lord. He now trusted that no time would be lost in carrying out a measure which would promote the amicable relations between this country and France.

Viscount Palmerston said, this was really an important Convention, which he trusted would be effectual in preventing the recurrence of those differences which had on many occasions threatened to create very serious difficulties. It was founded on principles of perfect equality. Neither country conceded more than it would obtain, and therefore he trusted it would prove entirely satisfactory to both.

after a trial of ten hours on ten counts, had been convicted on one count, and a question was put to the judge as to the manner in which they should be imprisoned. The learned judge said that no severity would be used, except what was necessary to secure their persons. But it now turned out that they were deprived of the use of fire, of pens, ink, and paper, and of the use of books. There ought to be some understood rules for the regulation of prisons, and he wished to hear what remedy was likely to be applied under the ctrcumstances.

The Attorney-General said, his own feeling was, that no unnecessary severity would be applied in any such cases, and he believed he expressed the feelings of the Government when he said so. An application had been made by Mr. Stephens for the use of pen, ink, and paper, and he had requested that no unnecessary severity should be used, and that he should not be subject to such privations. He believed, in the present instance, there was not the smallest pretence for saying that anything had been done contrary to the sentence.

Mr. O'Connell protested against the doctrine, that because a man was imprisoned he was to be subject to particular regulations. Imprisonment meant nothing more than the restraining a man from going abroad. It did not mean any species of torture. It was torture to keep a literary person from the use of pens, ink, and paper-it was torture to keep him from books. Whenever a wealthy man was committed to prison every luxury was afforded him. There ought to be some legal definition of what should amount to imprisonment, and it ought not to be left to the caprice or mistake of magistrates to say how much it should be heightened. He hoped the Attorney-general and the

ment.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that he was quite certain the noble Lord, the Secretary for the Home Department, would give relief in all cases in which it could properly be called for. He knew that in the case of Vincent, an appeal had been made to the noble Lord to allow the free use of books, and the order had been made, provided the books were not of an objectionable character. In any case properly made out, his noble Friend would doubtless grant all the relief consistent with the due administration of the law, and the effectual enforcement of the sentences awarded by courts of justice.

Mr. Sanford thought, that these cases ought to be always left to special applications. He certainly admitted that the discipline of a prison should not be solely at the option of any magistrates. Nor was it. For the prisons were under the controul of visiting magistrates, who were entirely guided by the regulations agreed on, firstly by the magistrates in Quarter Sessions, and afterwards sanctioned by the judges of Assize.

Mr. Warburton said, he was glad it would be understood that the Home-office would grant relief in all proper cases. That these prisoners should be without fire in winter was monstrous; indeed, it was enough to kill persons who had been accustomed to comfortable living. Besides, this unjust severity had the effect of exciting the sympathy of the public in the prisoners' favour, instead of, as would otherwise be perhaps the case, creating public concurrence in the justice of the

sentence.

Mr. Hume expressed his readiness to leave the case in the hands of the Secretary for the Home Department.

Sir F. Burdett considered it quite unconstitutional that men should be subjected to greater inflictions than the sentence of the law specified. It was no justification in such a case, to say that the regulations had been made by magistrates. This injustice, like many others in this country, had arisen out of a departure from the old constitutional practice of leaving the regulation of prison

it was found that there had been such a departure from the terms of the judge's sentence, it should be interfered in, and the injustice prevented, for a monstrous thing it was, that it should depend solely on the circumstance of a man's being sent to this or to that prison, with what severity, or with what mildness he should be treated.

The Attorney-General said, the Judges were in the habit of inquiring what was the discipline of the prison-and in the case of the Rev. Mr. Stephens, the learned Judge, Mr. Justice Patteson, a most humane and excellent judge, having found that the prison to which he had first sent Mr. Stephens, had regulations too harsh for a gentleman of education, altered his direction, and sent Mr. Stephens to the gaol of Chester, where he would be allowed the use of pens, paper, books, and other conveniences.

Subject dropped.

COLONIAL MAILS.] Mr. Hume moved, that it is inexpedient to make any contract or agreement for the conveyance of the mails to the West Indies and Continent of South America for so long a period as ten years, and involving an expenditure of 2,400,000l., until full information shall be obtained in that important department, and be laid before this House. In submitting this resolution on a subject to which he had recently adverted - he wished it to be understood, that he did not mean to underrate the importance of facilitating the conveyance of the Colonial Mails-on the contrary, he felt this to be most important. But he believed that the Colonial Post-office arrangements had been grossly neglected, and that the present proceeding was wholly irregular. He had anticipated, that the Government would have sent out a Commission to investigate the subject; and disappointed indeed was he to find, that without any public advertisement, they should have concluded a contract by which the country would be bound, for ten years, and in a sum of 2,400,000l. The Government should have settled the different lines of communication, and managed so that the larger vessels should not be put on the longest transits. He had no hesitation in