all others, the country would always be liable to this. Seeing, however, the situation to which the Chancellor of the Exchequer was now driven, he was not aware that he could have done better than to make the offer for tenders as he had done, although he thought, that the right hon. Gentleman was to blame, for not bringing the subject before the House prior to the budget, and the statement of the pecuniary affairs of the country. The right hon. Gentleman ought, long before this, to have taken steps to reduce the amount of the unfunded debt; at the beginning of 1837, he saw the state to which the Exchequer bill market was reduced, and when he discovered, on the introduction of his budget, that an additional million was required, he ought to have been prepared to fund, Exchequer bills, and he was wrong not to have done so. He was sorry that the Bank of England was not in a condition to take the whole of the loan; he had expected that they would have taken it, seeing the buoyant state of the 3 per cents. the week before. He hoped, that the present proceedings would make the Bank more circumspect, and that they would not again be obliged to have recourse for assistance to a foreign country; and he trusted, that the Government would turn its attention to the possibility of obtaining loans in stock of a higher amount.

Sir J. R. Reid was quite satisfied that the conduct pursued by the Bank on this occasion would meet with general approbation, perhaps with the approbation of every man in that House except the hon. Member for Kilkenny. He had no hesitation in declaring that he thought their conduct had been most liberal. With respect to a point adverted to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he availed himself of this opportunity of stating distinctly what had been already said by the right hon. Gentleman, that no communication whatever, private or otherwise, had passed between that right hon. Gentleman and any members of the Bank of England. The decision of the Bank had been come to without any communication with the right hon. Gentleman. He wished this to be clearly understood, as he would take the present opportunity of reading a few words from a very influential journal that was in the habit almost every day of running down the conduct of the Bank. The article he alluded to appeared in The Times a day or two ago. I

It commenced by some of the usual abuse, to which he had now grown so accustomed, that he confessed he did not feel it in the way he had originally felt it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he might be allowed so to say, was his brother in affliction; indeed, there were not two men in the country who had worked harder, or had received a greater quantity of abuse in return, than the right hon. Gentleman and himself. The individual who wrote the paragraph he did not pretend to know, but the words were as follow:

Deputy Governor of the Bank of England "The part taken by the Governor and during the meeting at the Treasury, has not escaped notice and animadversion in the city. They made an offer on the part of that corporation, towards which they stand in the character of trustees as well as managers, which was altogether an improvident one with rewhen the offer was made, and may take their gard to the state of the market at the time choice of being supposed negligent of, or incompetent to, that trust, or of acting in subservience to a Ministry whose good will they imagine it essential to cultivate, with a view to the renewal of the charter. They even went, in their zeal, beyond what was necessary for that time-serving spirit.”

He totally denied, that he had ever been subservient to any Government, more particularly to a Government like the present. He declared most solemnly, and he did it before that House and before the country, that upon no occasion whatever, had the Bank directors been subservient to the right hon. Gentleman; and he threw back this imputation with all the scorn in his power. (The hon. Baronet threw the paper from which he read on the floor.) When he was accused of improper motives by a paper of such great influence, he should not have done his duty if he had submitted tamely to the imputation. As long as he retained his present situation, he would endeavour faithfully and honestly to discharge his duty as Governor of the Bank without fear, favour, or affection. His anxious wish always had been, and would be so long as he had the honour of filling that post, to promote by all means in his power the prosperity of the country, and the prosperity of the Bank, which he knew to be interwoven with each other. With respect to the present operation which the Chancellor of the Exchequer was conducting, he had no hesitation in declaring it to be his opinion, when he

looked to the sum already subscribed, the state of the money-market and foreign exchanges, and the improvement of trade, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would obtain the money he required on the terms he had proposed.

were to be made good; and he could not help warning the House to look well to the consequences of the course they were about to pursue-to consider deeply the vast importance of the subject, and the dangers to which the country might be exposed, if, superadded to the embarrassments arising from the disturbed state of the labouring population, they should have also to contend with financial dis tress.

Mr. Herries expressed his regret that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not brought forward this very important subject at an earlier period of the Session, when a greater number of Members would have been present, and the subject might The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, have been discussed with more effect. He that when the hon. Member for Kilkenny did not think, that the reasons assigned intimated that with the present prices of by the right hon. Gentleman for not re- the funds, they might have funded Exducing the unfunded debt at an earlier chequer-bills more advantageously than period of the Session were satisfactory. was proposed, he had not adverted to the He had no objection to the terms declared prices of Exchequer-bills; but now he by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on had an advantage by the depreciation of this occasion, nor to the mode of compe- Exchequer-bilis, which he should not tition he had adopted. He regretted most have had when they were at 60s. and 70s. sincerely, that the Chancellor of the Ex-The right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Herries) chequer had not met with more success, but hoped that the termination of the experiment would be more favourable. He thought the right hon. Gentleman should have told the House something of the means by which he proposed to meet this addition to the permanent debt of the country. It was true, that there was on tle Table an account, by which it appeared that the Chancellor of the Excheqer, from the calculations then made, estimated a surplus of 139,000. But it ought to be observed, that this estimate, which bore date the 9th of August, was precisely the same as that made by the right hon. Gentleman in his financial statement of the 5th of July. Between these dates, however, an actual expenditure had been incurred, to the amount, in all, of 85,000l., so that a deduction to that extent ought to have been made from the estimated surplus of 139,000l., and without such deduction the paper was merely delusive. From what he had stated, he thought it was perfectly clear, that the House and the public were entitled to some information of the provision to be made for meeting this addition to the national debt. On a full view of the question, looking at the present state of the revenue, at the possible deficiency from the alteration of the rates of postage, and at the actual deficiency at present existing, he must say, he thought it was very strange, that the right hon. Gentleman had not acquainted the House with his views as to how these deficiencies VOL. L. {Third}

had called a paper on the table a delusive paper; but what were the facts? That paper was moved for in another place by a noble Lord in opposition to Government, immediately after his statement of the finances, for the purpose of bringing that statement regularly before the other House. In course of a discussion in the House, the hon. Member for Bridport had made use of this paper, and afterwards moved that it be laid on the Table. This was accordingly done, not obviously at the instance of Government, or of any Member connected with Government, and therefore the paper could not have been intended to mystify or delude, as was assumed by the right hon. Gentleman. With respect to the question of provision for the increase of debt, he begged to assure the House, that it had not been forgotten; and if this morning he had been enabled to have made more progress with the Bank of Ireland Bill, he should have been in circumstances to have given a better answer; for that bill, if it passed into a law, would effect a saving of 20,000l. or 30,000l. per aunum on the interest of the debt due from the public to the Bank of Ireland-a sum which would have gone some way towards the provision which the right hon. Gentleman referred to.

Sir T. Fremantle however unwillingly, felt it his duty to express his deep regret, that a subject of such immense importance should have been brought forward so late in the Session. He regretted that the right hon. Gentleman had not been sucP

Mr. Finch thought, it was impolitic to fund Exchequer-bills in perpetual annuities. The difference between a perpetual annuity, and an annuity for ninety-nine years was so small, that it would not amount in its marketable value to more than one-half per cent. He did think, that adding to our national debt as they were year after year, there must come an end of this course of proceeding. It was for hon. Members to say whether such a system ought to be proceeded in. Had a contrary system been adopted, of granting annuities for shorter periods, they would have seen the termination of annuities every eight or ten years, and they would not fix generation after generation with the burdens which we now bad to bear. Resolutions agreed to, and ordered to be reported.

House resumed.

THE BUDE LIGHT.] Sir F. Trench moved the following Resolution :

cessful in carrying his object into effect; for | meet that, the difficulty would be very after operating during four days, an order to great. fund 4,000,000l. of Exchequer-bills, they heard that he had only contracted for 500,000%. He understood that to-day in the city, persons were willing to subscribe 700,000l. of Exchequer-bills. Whether the right hon. Gentleman would get the amount of Exchequer-bills funded or not, seemed to him to be highly problematical. The right hon. Gentleman expressed great confidence that he would get the amount; but it appeared that for this miserable sum of 4,000,0001. of Exchequer-bills, the Chancellor of the Exchequer was obliged to resort to three expedients to get it. He first made a bargain with the Bank of England, and a very good bargain he (Sir T. Fremantle) had no doubt it was; he then made another bargain with other parties, and then wished to make a bargain with parties willing to take stock. If the proposed plan should fail between now and next Friday, the right hon. Gentleman would be reduced to the necessity of funding Exchequer-bills at the average price of stock. The right hon. Gentleman "That it is the opinion of this House, that had taken a higher responsibility on him- the expenses of the experiments made under self in his proposal last Friday. If he the direction of the Bude-light committee, had been successful, he would have re- ought to be paid by the Treasury, and that Mr. ceived great praise from them all; but Gurney should receive such remuneration as that was not the case. He thought the the Lords of the Treasury may deem an aderight hon. Gentleman's plan better in time and talents to the service of this House; inquate compensation for the devotion of his principle than in practice, and that the and that it is unbecoming the dignity of Parliold plan was not so objectionable in prac-ament, that his remuneration should be de tice. The right hon. Gentleman having pendent on the success or failure of experi practised on one principle, was obliged to ments made by order of a committee of this adopt another-the old principle of naming his terms. It had been stated that the public credit of this country stood as high as ever: he believed that; but he thought this statement ought not to be made public without some warning, that if they were to go on for some years longer as at present, public credit could not be sustained. The paper put in showed a deficiency in one year's income of 1,800,000l. Hon. Members seemed to treat this statement with great indifference: whether they were prepared to support the Chancellor of the Exchequer in laying on taxes, he knew not, but it would be extremely difficult to find proper subjects for taxation. A tax on property was the only one available for producing a large amount of income, and that ought only to be used in time of war. If another year was allowed to pass over with an acknowledged deficiency, without any steps being taken to


The Speaker informed the hon. Baronet that his resolution was informal. The subject could not be gone into without a previous message from the Crown.

Mr. Hume would take the opportunity of denying, that the committee had objected to Mr. Gurney's experiment being paid for by the public. On the contrary, the committee had provided for the payment of every farthing. While on the subject, he would observe, that a man more single-minded, or more anxious for the advancement of science, than Mr. Gurney, did not exist. The hon. Member read several testimonials in favour of the Bude-light, from the evidence given before the committee.

Sir F. Trench withdrew his resolution.
The House then adjourned.

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Prelate. He alluded to the state of the sewers in the city of London. The drainage in some parts was so defective, that it generated disease, and was calculated to deteriorate the health of the inhabitants. He should, therefore, give notice, that in the next Session of Parliament, he should move for a committee to inquire into the supply of water to the metropolis, for the purpose of devising means for securing a purer and more wholesome supply of that article; also to inquire into the causes of


SUPPLY OF WATER TO THE METRO-accidents on railways, for the purpose of POLIS.] The Marquess of Westminster proposing means for the more effectual wished to draw the attention of their security of passengers. Lordships to a subject of very considerable importance-namely, the supply of the metropolis with pure and wholesome wa-ham begged to call the attention of his ter. It would form a proper subject of noble Friend at the head of the Governinquiry, whether a supply of water in a ment to the question, or rather questions, pure state could not be procured from the which were now pending in the East beriver. At present the water which was tween the Sultan and Mehemet Ali. If the drawn from that source was far from reported results of their hostilities were true, being pure. If that could not be effected, he could not help thinking that there had then other means ought to be resorted to, not been that cordial and vigorous attempt, in order to secure a proper supply of that which their Lordships were told would have important necessary. For a considerable been made to keep peace between them. length of time a committee of the other The peace had been broken by the Porte, House of Parliament had been sitting on and not by Mehemet Ali; and how the Porte this subject, and it was hoped that that could have been advised to risk itself with committee would have made such a report Mehemet Ali in a manner so badly preas would have led to beneficial results. pared for the fray, was perfectly incompreThat, however, was not the case. He had hensible. He wished to know, therefore, taken considerable pains in investigating not only as to the truth of the reports, but this subject, and when a bill was intro- also whether it were true, as he had duced connected with it, he had given it learned, that a noble Friend of his at the his best consideration. Unfortunately, Porte had taken less vigorous measures however, the measures which had hitherto than ought to have been taken in attempts been adopted had not produced the de- to prevent hostilities? It was an unacsired effect. It would, therefore, be right countable notion, that the armies of the that their Lordships' attention should be two powers had been in the reverse posicalled to this important matter early in the tion of what was the fact. They had been next Session. Another point to which he told that the Turkish troops were in an was anxious to direct the attention of their excellent state of discipline, and that there Lordships was the frequent occurrence of was almost an absolute certainty of their accidents on railways. A very serious defeating those of Mehemet Ali. He, accident of this nature had recently oc- therefore, begged to ask, whether it were curred near Coventry. Steps should, he true or not, that the Government had thought, be taken to prevent, as far as it received accounts from our negotiators to was possible, the recurrence of such acci- the effect that everything would turn out dents in future. To attain this object, it to the advantage of the Turks, and to the would be advisable that the walls on em- discomfiture of the Egyptian army?— bankments should be built of such height whether the accounts of the Turkish fleet and thickness, and be so inclined, as to having joined Mehemet Ali, and of the present an effectual barrier against car- defeat of the Turks by the Egyptians, were riages being precipitated over them. Ano-correct?-whether, from the accounts ther point to which he wished to direct their Lordships' attention, was one that had already been noticed by a right rev.

received, his noble Friend were still of opinion, that every means had been used before the breaking out of those hostilities to

ment-the most beautiful report he had
ever in the course of his life read of
any engagement-the only fault to be
found with which was, that there was not
a single word of it true.
Subject dropped.

prevent them ?-whether endeavours were now being made to prevent-as men would who really wished to prevent-the continuance of those hostilities?-what hopes were entertained of upholding the power of the Sultan ?-and, finally, whether the information received as to the relative state of the armies had been such as to make the sudden beginning and termination to the campaign which had taken place, a matter of disappointment to the Government?

MANCHESTER POLICE.] Upon the question that the House go into committee upon the Manchester Police Bill,

Lord Brougham said, that the opinion which he had given on the preceding evening with respect to the operation of the Municipal Corporation Act in repeal

chester was not at all weakened by the reflection which he had since bestowed upon the question. Nevertheless, as his noble and learned Friend upon the Woolsack had arrived at a different conclusion, and as several learned Friends whom he had consulted, and who agreed with him in opinion, thought that the point was by no means free from doubt, as was indeed manifest from the disagreement of the views taken by his noble and learned Friend and himself, he withdrew all the opposition to the bill which he had founded upon his construction of the Municipal Corporation Act. He still entertained, with respect to this bill, the same objections as he had urged against the Birmingham Police Bill, but he should not trouble the House to divide upon the question.

Viscount Melbourne said, it was impossible for him to deny that his expectations upon the subject had not been realized.ing the local police Acts affecting ManAs to the circumstances which had occasioned, or which of the parties had taken those measures which had led to hostilities, it was not for him to say; and, indeed, it appeared to him useless and unnecessary to inquire. The defeat alluded to by his noble and learned Friend, had undoubtedly taken place; but from accounts which the Government had received, the victory was not so complete as had been represented. It was also true, that the Turkish fleet had fled from Constantinople, and placed itself in the hands of the Pasha of Egypt. His noble and learned Friend had asked, what hopes were entertained of supporting and maintaining the power of the Sultan? His answer was, that the hopes they entertained of maintaining the power of the Sultan, and preserving the integrity of the Ottoman empire, which they considered a very great and valuable object, were mainly founded upon the complete co-operation and agreement of the five great Powers, and the determination of those Powers to act together, cordially and energetically, for that purpose. With respect to the conduct which had been pursued by those who represented her Majesty in that part of the globe, he begged leave to say, that there was no foundation whatever for any of those notions which had reached the ears of his noble and learned Friend. He begged also to state, that there had been on their part every, and the most sincere, exertion to prevent hostilities taking place; and that the Government had not received from them any representation as to the certainty or probability of a different result from that which had taken place.

Viscount Duncannon said, with reference to the objections made by the noble Duke opposite (the Duke of Wellington) on the preceding evening to this bill, the noble Duke could not have adverted to the circumstance, that a very considerable portion of Manchester, in which property of great value was situated, was not under the jurisdiction of the present commissioners of police. He had reason also to believe, that the noble Duke was mistaken as to the amount which could be raised under the powers of the present bill. It was true that this bill limited the powers of the commissioners to the levying of a rate of 8d. in the pound; but he was informed that that would produce a sum equal to 23,000l. a year. By the accounts which he had received, the assessment for the township of Manchester was stated to The Duke of Wellington observed, that be 526,2691.; and for all the other townhe was not surprised at the questions of ships 175,4231.; making the total assesshis noble and learned Friend, for he him- ment 701,692.; and a rate of 8d. in the self had read one report of the engage-pound on that assessment would produce

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