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[We must request correspondents desiring information on family matters of only private interest, to affix their names and addresses to their queries, in order that the answers may be addressed to them direct.]

is little noticed by the dictionaries. It is not in Minshew, nor in an early edition of Johnson, and not in Richardson. Lastly, Littré gives no very early instance in French, "son ogre de père," Voltaire, 1740, of the father of Frederic II. What is the date of this plainly French word being used of it in French in this exact form? O. W. T.

"OGRE."-The following passage is from the by English writers, and what the date of the use Spectator, November 11, 1876, p. 1876 :—

"He had reason to believe in the continued existence of the Aghors, or Ughors-Anglice Ogres-who live naked in the Kattiawar jungle, and are still cannibals, though devout Hindoos."

This etymology is worth a few words, I think. Is it new, or are these Ughors the old Hunnish or Tartar Ugrians, who appear under varying titles -Cutiguri, Utiguri, of old writers; Uighurs of Colonel Yule's Marco Polo; Hongrois or Oigours of Littré ? The traditional derivation was from this name, and possibly some case might be made out for it.

"Two hordes of White' Huns, called respectively Cutriguri and Utiguri, in all probability a fusion of Finns and Ugrians (Igours or Ogors), to the latter of whom and their terrible reputation in less barbarous countries we owe the familiar ogres of our children's story-books."-Curteis's The Roman Empire, p. 193.

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But the authorities are against this, and give reasons. Diez, Brachet, Littré, Wedgwood, all make ogre=ocrum=orcum, i.e. Latin Orcus, hell, personified, a god of the lower regions, hence a devil, a monster. The reason is plain; the forms in the kindred Romance languages will not allow the traditional derivation for any form except the one word ogre of French and English, and a modern Spanish form ogro, while orcus accounts for all forms alike. There are one or two points on which a little more information is wanted. First, is there any ground for a connexion of the word with the Ugrians or Oigours? and if so, where is such an etymology first suggested? Did such an ideal etymology give the word its modern shape? Next, Littré quotes Anglo-Sax. orc, démon infernal," from orcus, and it is in Bosworth "1. hell; 2. a goblin." Both correctly, no doubt. But is there not a mistake or confusion when Wedgwood quotes under ogre, from Drayton (from Nares)

"Her marble-minded breast impregnable, rejects

The ugly orks that for their lord the ocean woos"? This is like

"The haunt of seals and orcs and seamews' clang." Milton, Par. Lost, xi. 835. Orcs (say the notes) mentioned by Ariosto, Drayton, and Sylvester. Is not the fact that, the earlier word orc being lost (not in Strattmann), then in the sixteenth century a new orc from Italian, a revival of Lat. orca, comes in? This is not orcus at all, nor belonging to ogre, but is orca, Greek opuέ, a whale, as in Minshew orch, ork, “whirlepoole, a monstrous fish." Orc seems not to have become common in English; and ogre

"ROMA VETUS AC RECENS utriusque ædificiis ad eruditam cognitionem expositis. Auctore Alexandro Donato e Societate Jesu. Tertio edita ac multis in locis ne dum aucta, et castigatior reddita; verum etiam Figuris Aeneis illustrata. Romae ex officina Philippi Rubej. MDCLXV. Superiorum permissu." I am anxious to obtain information, through the of the above book. My copy is small 4to., bound, pages of "N. & Q.," as to the reputation and value with gilt edges-a volume of some 500 pages. W. D. B.

WALES CALLED "LETAMIA."-In vol. i. of Sir T. D. Hardy's Descriptive Catalogue of Materials relating to the History of Great Britain and Ireland, p. 85, in an account of a MS. Bodl. "De Sancto Kenedo Confessore, Joannes Anglicus in the first lines are quoted thus:-"Est quædam Sanctilogio suo de Sanctis Walliæ et Scotia," terra, quæ antiquitus Letamia, nunc autem Minor Britannia nuncupatur."

When and by whom was Wales called "Letamia," and what does the name mean?

I. S. LEADAM.

PRINCE EUGENE'S PRAYER.-In an old life of

Prince Eugene I have seen a long prayer, said to have been a favourite with him, beginning thus, "O my God, I believe in thee, do thou strengthen my faith" Eugene's Prayer" I have met with the same composition in a modern English book of devotion. Now, a few years back I heard this prayer recited in a Roman Catholic church, and it is to be seen, with certain differences, in the Garden of the Soul (32mo. ed., p. 99), in this instance entitled "An Universal Prayer." Did Prince Eugene compose the prayer, and has the Roman Catholic Church adopted it? or did the Prince take it from some existing book for his own purposes? In either case, has the prayer any further literary history?

and under the title of "Prince

E. E. A.

NAPOLEON I. Is there any full and reliable account, contemporary or other, of the reasons that led the first Napoleon to adopt the bees of Childeric as the symbols of his power? Was it merely an arbitrary whim of the Emperor, or was it discussed at length with his ministers? Was it anywhere referred to in print at the time? Was the choice announced in a decree? Were any reasons given but the simple fact of the discovery of the bees in the tomb of Childeric? Was this emblem

ever used, except on the imperial robes and the caparisons of the horses? H. P. A.

"HUDIBRAS."—I have an edition 12mo., printed for D. Brown and others, 1720, in one vol., entitled :

"Hudibras, in Three Parts, &c. With Additions. To which is added Annotations, &c. Adorned with Cuts." It has a fine portrait. The "cuts," some of which are on folding plates, are rude but not without character or humour. They seem clearly to have influenced Hogarth. I should be glad of any information about this edition, which is not noted in Lowndes. MOY THOMAS.

Garden House, Clement's Inn.

"THE CRITICAL HISTORY OF ENGLAND, Ecclesiastical and Civil, wherein the Errors of the Monkish Writers and others before the Reformation are Expos'd and Corrected......and particular Notice is taken of The History of the Grand Rebellion and Mr. Echard's History of England." Second edition, London, two vols. 8vo., 1726. Who was the author of the above? CORNUB.

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ON THE USE OF THE WORDS "SUPERIOR" AND INFERIOR."--Not knowing of any_dictionary or grammar of sufficient authority, I appeal to the readers of "N. & Q." for information as to the correct use of the words superior and inferior. Must they always be regarded as comparatives, or can they be used as simple positive adjectives? Is it correct to say, for example, "The goods were of inferior quality," or, more simply, were inferior"? Can we say "very inferior," or must we always put it, "very much inferior"? It certainly would sound very odd to say "more inferior," but one hears occasionally

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C. O. B.

CURIOUS INSCRIPTION ON A TOMB.-The following is a copy of an inscription on a tomb which stands alone in a larch plantation four miles from Macclesfield, and about one-third of a mile from Gawsworth Church, in Cheshire :—

"Stay, thou whom chance directs or ease persuades
To seek the quiet of these sylvan shades;
Here undisturbed and hid from vulgar eyes

A wit, musician, poet, player, lies:

A dancing-master, too, in grace he shone,

And all the arts of opera were his own.

In comedy well skilled, he drew Lord Flame,

Acted the part, and gained himself the name;

Averse to strife, how oft he 'd gravely say

extravaganza, Hurlothrumbo (in which he played Lord Flame), was acted during thirty successive nights. The public got tired of piece and author. See, for full particulars, Ormerod's Cheshire; Biog. Dramat.; Genest's History of the Drama, &c.; and Thespian Dict. The time of Johnson's death is not known, but before his decease he nearly killed a nervous lady by fright at his polite assurance that he should consider himself bound to pay her his first visit as a ghost.]

HERALDIC.-I desire to learn whose arms are

the following; they are stamped on a pair of cast iron fire-dogs, which were many years ago purchased out of an ancient farmhouse situated within four miles of Droitwich. Below the shields is apparently the date 1612; but as the dogs have been much injured by polishings, it might be 1622 or 1632. The shield is party per pale, and the dexter half is again divided, "per pale," into two coats, i.e., a chevron between three mullets, and on a bend two owls. There are, of course, no means of ascertaining the tinctures. The sinister of the shield is, A chevron between three garbs. The Finches of Rushock once owned the farm. Perhaps MR. GRAZEBROOK or MR. WOODWARD Will enlighten me. C. G. H.

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THE FAMILY OF PILGRIM.-Can any of your readers inform me what family of Pilgrim went to the West Indies? In Barbados, Government House is called Pilgrim, and I find a Thos. Pilgrim" owned land in that island in 1638, and a "Thos. Pilgrim" lived there in 1680. Near St. Lucia was an island called Pilgrim, and also a bay, in 1722. G. P. T.

GILLIAM FAMILY.-What are the arms borne

by this family? Is it of Welsh or of Norman

extraction?

J. P. S.

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"FACIES."-I shall be obliged by reference to passages in any of the classics in which the word facies is used to describe, not the features, face, or portrait, but the person, figure, or a statue of

These peaceful groves should shade his breathless clay, any hero, emperor, or divinity; and similar re

That when he rose again, laid here alone,

No friend and he should quarrel for a bone; Thinking that, were some old lame gossip nigh, She possibly might take his leg or thigh." When did Johnson live and die, and where did he carry on his various professions?

Enfield, N.

W. T. HYATT.

[Samuel Johnson was a half-mad Cheshire dancing master of the first half of the last century. In 1729 his

ferences to passages in medieval writers in which this same word facies is used to describe a statue of the Virgin or an image of any saint. THETA.

OLD SONG BOOK.-I have an old song book which lacks the title-page, and all, if anything, before "A Table of ye Songs." It contains one hundred songs; the first is "A Miser's Song," the last is "The Jilt." Each song occupies a page, therefore there are one hundred pages in the book,

which also corresponds with "the Table." The words are set to music, with generally music in addition for the flute or other instrument. The book is printed from music plates, not type, and measures seven inches by five inches, being a sort of small quarto, or rather square octavo. I would wish much to know the title of my book, so that I may refer to the British Museum Catalogue, and consult their copy if they have one. Can any reader help me? GETE.

THOMSON'S "HYMN TO THE CREATOR" IN

STANZAS.-Dr. George Mac Donald, in England's Antiphon, says :-

"In the poems of James Thomson we find two hymns to the God of Creation-one in blank verse, the other in stanzas....... The one in blank verse, which is an epilogue to his great poem, The Seasons, I prefer."

He then proceeds to give the well-known lines, beginning:

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"A HELP TO ENGLISH HISTORY."-Is there a late edition of the above work, by P. Heylyn, D.D., issued in 1641 and again in 1709? Is there any recent work which corresponds to it-I mean one that will show the family names of, for instance, all who have been Dukes of Devonshire, &c. ? C. W. TUTTLE. Boston, U.S.

"FLANDERKIN."-Is this a correct word for "Flemish "-"Dutch and Flanderkin beauty."

MILLERS' SONS.-Rembrandt was the son of a miller; Mortimer was the son of a miller; Con

stable was the son of a miller. Can this list be augmented? C. A. WARD. Mayfair.

THE BUST OF BYRON BY THORWALDSEN.-Some recent letters in the Times have called attention to the above bust in the Ambrosian Library, Milan. Permit me to enclose a copy of the inscription on that bust, and to ask if some one will be so good as to explain the allusions it contains :Byron Effigies Quam Thorwaldsen inventor

Ronchettio sutori sui temporis primo
Clarioribus viris ac proceribus jucundo
Hujus F. Antonius

Sonantis Eburis
Magister Bibliothecæ
Donavit.

Is anything known of Ronchetti and Antonio? There is clearly something wrong in the Latin, but I believe the copy is correct. JAYBEEDEE.

Replies.

A SOCIETY FOR THE PUBLICATION OF CHURCH REGISTERS.

(5th S. vi. 484.)

ARGENT suggests that genealogical clergymen should transcribe their own registers; that the generous liberal clergy should place their registers at the disposal of the society; and that the brothers, sisters, and sons of clergymen, and sisters married to clergymen, should join in the good work of copying them.

I am afraid he would find few who would be

willing to undertake so dull a work. As it is, many of the clergy, at all events in the diocese where I reside, cannot be induced to make copies of their registers to be presented annually at the visitation. It would be better to form a society to carry into effect what the first Lord Romilly, when Master of the Rolls, was anxious to accomplish, to transfer all public and ecclesiastical documents from their present scattered, and often neglected, damp, and dusty repositories, to the Record Office. Here they would be preserved and indexed, and could be inspected at any time. To the proposition of Lord Romilly objections were made by bishops' secretaries and the parochial clergy; they were unwilling to part with the documents and to lose their fees.

But if the transfer of documents was confined to those which are prior to the beginning of this century, or even prior to the beginning of the last century, there would be little or no loss to those who now have the custody of them, as few would require certificates of registers and of other deeds before this century, much less before the last.

The Will Office goes on this supposition, and allows, without payment, the examination of wills prior to 1700 by obtaining a judge's order, which is freely given to all whose object is history, genealogy, or archæology; and a comfortable room is provided, and a very intelligent and courteous superintendent, well versed in ancient lore, is generally present, and ready to give every information.

It would be much more convenient to literary men if all ancient documents were brought to one central place,-such, for instance, as London, the resort of men from all parts of the country,—than that they should be scattered in a great number of different localities, exposed to loss and to decay.

A few years ago I had a letter from a farmer's daughter, stating that her father was dead and she wished to dispose of his books, some of which were very old. On going to see them, I found a parish register of 1560 to 1660, which, if I had not obtained it, would have shared the fate of many others, and been sold for tailors' and shoemakers' measures.

If a survey were made of the old muniment rooms of bishops, colleges, corporations, &c., in

many of them there would be found most interesting and valuable documents, uncared for and mouldering away, Take, for instance, the muniment room of the diocese of Lincoln: there all the old ecclesiastical documents, to use the words of an archeologist who lately visited them, are in a state of hopeless confusion; among them are the pre-Reformation records relating to Oxfordshire, which, unfortunately, were left behind when Henry VIII. took that county from the diocese of Lincoln and appointed over it a separate bishop. Efforts have been made from time to time to reclaim them, but without effect. The plea has always been that they are so mixed up with the records of Lincoln and other counties that it would take too long a time to separate them. But if the Record Office was allowed to clear the cupboards and the boxes, and take the contents to London, they would very soon be separated and arranged.

If Lord Romilly's plan is ever permitted to be carried out, a vast deal of information as to families, places, and ancient customs would be brought to light, and a strong argument afforded | against those who pretend that church property is national property, by showing that those who possessed large territories voluntarily granted in perpetuity lands and tithes to the ministers of religion who ministered in holy things to the people of their estates.

J. W. LODOWICK.

I fear that ARGENT is too sanguine in his expectation of its being practicable to form a society for the purpose mentioned. His scheme is of far greater magnitude than the basis of the Harleian Society, if he proposes to extend the publication to all parish registers; and if he does not intend so to extend it, how will he limit it? Has he contemplated the practical difficulties? I do not mean the objections of clergymen, for I believe they would soon learn that it would be to their advantage to make public the contents of their registers, that persons might know to whom to apply for certificates. But has he considered the extent of his project in a practical manner? Say there are in England some 12,000 parishes. We may, I think, estimate that, on an average, the registers of each parish, if printed, as he proposes, in toto, would fill an octavo volume of the ordinary size. At the rate of issue he suggests we can see at a glance the period which would be required to complete the work, and can form some conception of the shelf room which would be required to stow away the Registers Library when finished. The obvious reply will, of course, be, "It cannot be accomplished at once." But how will he begin? Will he take a parish in Kent, then one in Yorkshire, and next one in Cornwall, as transcripts may be obtainable, or will he take a district or county? Again, another question arises. Are

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parish registers, generally, worth printing in toto? I trow not. Few persons have used parish registers more than I have done, or value them more highly; nevertheless, I can safely say that in many parish registers there is not one entry in a hundred that one person in a hundred thousand, or one genealogist in a hundred, would care an iota about. If ARGENT be really in earnest, let him endeavour to form a society for printing the registers of the parishes in one district, diocese, or county first, say those in the City of London, than which none are of greater general interest, and for this I authorize him to enter my name as a subscriber. If his scheme be successful so far, it may be easily extended.

That some steps should be taken for the preservation of, and ready access to, the existing MS. registers, is a matter of urgent importance. I am thankful to say that, as a body, the clergy are far more alive to the value of these records than they were a century, or even half a century, ago; but. I must add, from my own experience, that there is not one clergyman in fifty who can read the older registers—“the old black-letter writing," as they call it. In the inaugural address which I had the honour to deliver to the Historical Section of the Congress of the Royal Archæological Institute, at Exeter, in 1873 (Archæological Journal, vol. xxx. p. 420), I ventured to suggest as, in my opinion, the most feasible plan, that the originals of all the parish registers prior to the Act of 1812 should be placed in the custody of the Master of the Rolls, as proposed by a Bill brought into Parliament in the previous year, and that every parish should be supplied by Government with certified copies of its own registers, which should have all the authority of the originals, and be treated in the same manner. The clergy and parishioners would then be able to read their registers, and literary men and genealogists would have an opportunity of referring to the originals in a central place of deposit, where they would be safely preserved. JOHN MACLEAN.

Bicknor Court, Coleford, Glouc.

ARGENT'S suggestion, if it could be carried out, is one that would delight the heart of every antiquary. But can it be? I do not know the exact number of parishes in England and Wales, but the Encyc. Brit. (8th ed., 1855) gives the number of benefices as 11,782. The church registers would of course be those of births, marriages, and deaths, and if a volume were issued every year including the three, and taking in four or five parishes, many centuries must pass before the work would be finished. No; a single society could not accomplish the task. But it might be done if the work were taken up by Government, and the books issued as parts of the Public Records. If this is not possible, could not our local archæolo

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gical societies do it for their various counties? it, and from passages referring to it in Haydon's They would be obliged to increase their sub-Journals. MR. PIESSE says that Haydon's atelier scriptions, and appoint special committees, and so on, but still it does seem to be within the bounds of possibility for the labour to be done by them. Some years ago clergymen and others were invited to copy the inscriptions in churchyards, and forward them to some society in London. Has this been done? and if so, what society preserves the books? I suppose the British Museum Library would preserve such collections amongst its MSS. Allow me to offer a suggestion. It is this. Let a book be kept at the lodge of all our cemeteries, into which it shall be the duty of the attendant to copy the inscription on every stone that is erected. These books, after a time, might be sent to London, to some library where they would be open to the public. H. BOWER.

May I be allowed to suggest that the "church books" of Nonconformist chapels might advisedly be included among the objects of ARGENT'S proposed society? I remember one instance in which, while registers were searched in vain, a church book" supplied important items.

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Such a society would be a boon to genealogists -simply invaluable. How many pedigrees could be set right, missing links supplied, &c., if the searcher did but know what register to consult !

HERMENTRUde.

was "in a house in Burford Place, on the left-hand side out of Edgware Road," implying that Haydon lived there in 1815, and that my expression, his way home from Edgware Road to Great Marlborough Street," should, he thinks, be inverted. There is here a double blunder. "Burford Place" should be Burwood Place; and my expression needs no inversion at all, for in 1815 Haydon was living in Great Marlborough Street, and says that he was on his way thither from his friend John Scott's in Edgware Road when he met the Foreign Office messenger in Portman Square with the first news of Wellington's great victory. (I call it Wellington's in despite of the late Col. C. C. Chesney and all the host of Prusso-philists or -phobists who " go in" for Blucher, Ziethen and Co. This by the way.) Haydon, in fact, did not begin his occupation of the house (afterwards a house in Burwood Place) in which he died until 1824. I cannot make out to whom MR. PIESSE'S description, "very eccentric and violent in temper, poor in pocket, handsome in person, rather tall and stout, always wearing large round-eyed spectacles," is intended to apply-whether to the Duke of Newcastle or to Haydon. The latter was certainly "eccentric," as certainly "violent in temper" and "poor in pocket "; but, though he may have been handsome," was undeniably "stout," and always wore "large round-eyed spectacles," he cannot be said to have been "rather tall," for he was undoubtedly below the middle height; so much so, indeed, as to be known to some of his "friends in Rathbone Place" as "little Haydon." All this, however, is beside the mark. My query was intended not to draw out descriptions of Haydon's personal appearance and habits, but solely to obtain the means of clearing up the doubt in which I find myself as to the exact nature of Haydon's blunder in his very circumstantial account of "The First News of the Victory of Waterloo." He says that it was in Portman Square, on his way from Edgware Road to Great Marlborough Street, that he met the Foreign Office messenger, and sent him by mistake into a house as being Lord Harrowby's which was, in reality, Mrs. Boehm's. He adds, correctly, that Lord Harrowby's house was in Grosvenor, and not in Portman Square. But then, unfortunately, Mrs. Boehm's house was not in HAYDON'S "AUTOBIOGRAPHY" (5th S. vi. 344, Portman Square, but in St. James's Square. 516.) I thank MR. PIESSE for his kind, but un- Now, was it in this latter square that Haydon executed, intention of telling me a little." Like met the messenger, really sending him into Mrs. Haydon in his account of the first news of the Boehm's after all; or did he, meeting him in Portbattle of Waterloo, he has written from memory, man Square, send him into some house (not of and blundered. My statement that the Autobio- course Mrs. Boehm's) where, as he says, there was graphy was composed within certain limits of date" actually a rout"? Such an incident as the sudden (not about twenty-eight years after Waterloo ") was no "surmise," as MR. PIESSE calls it, but an inference from certain notices of date occurring in

In common, probably, with many of your readers, I cordially welcome, and hope to hear more of, ARGENT'S well-weighed suggestion. "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well 'twere done quickly." To those who may not have had occasion to examine any number of registers, might I venture to commend a perusal of chap. iii. in the late John Southernden Burn's History of Parish Registers (1862), being that on their present "State of Preservation"?

New Univ. Club.

H. W.

Should a society be established for this purpose, I shall be very willing to follow a leader with the registers of my parish. Lead I could not, as my copy only goes as far as 1782, and I should require some little time to bring it down to the suggested date, 1837.

Clent, Worcestershire.

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VIGORN.

irruption of a Foreign Office messenger, with the first news of so great a victory as that which freed Europe from the curse of Napoleon's ambition,

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