be heard and made known through the proper representative of the public, that which it was the interest of every free government, but of this in particular, should be directly conveyed to the sources of authority. Its enactments were not only reconcileable with, but were even conducive to the interests and the safety of the public, and of the established church. The right reverend prelate at the head of the established church of Ireland, who had expressed his sentiments in a manner which reflected honour on himself, and showed him to be worthy of the high station which he held, had argued, that the whole question turned upon this-whether the measure were of that nature, that it might be reckoned upon as likely to coneiliate and tranquillize Ireland. On that ground he was willing to take his stand in defence of this bill. The argument of the right reverend prelate had been, that the moment the intentions of government to make these concessions to the Roman Catholics of Ireland had been announced through a paragraph in the newspapers, its immediate effect was to push those claimants on to assert that which they had not had the courage to assert before; or, in other words, to raise exorbitantly their expectations and demands. In making that statement, what did the candour of the right reverend prelate lead him to confess? Why, nothing short of this that these expectations were excited by, and had in fact originated with, that class who were considered and designated as the class of agitators in Ireland; whilst the rational advocates of concession, who were of a more moderate description, had no influence on the public sentiment. Now, he would boldly ask, why this class of persons failed to produce any effect, or to exercise any influence over the public sentiment? How was it that, in every country to which our attention might be directed, it would be perceived, that these governments had means to correct and temper that violence which, in this instance, and under this form of govern ment, was found to be incontrollable by the interposition of the calmer and more dispassionate part of society, existing alike in all societies? or why was it that in Ireland this was found to be of no avail? He would not hesitate to answer, that it was principally, if not altogether, owing to the existence of those disabling statutes, which as long as they existed, tend ed to keep up the excitement which was too general in the Catholic body, and was calculated to give a controlling power to the agitators, which not all the influence of the Catholics, who were men of acknowledged property, and of the Catholic gentry and nobility themselves, could neutralise or counteract. The legislature, it had been said by the right reverend prelate, had yielded up all restrictions and disabilities imposed by law on Catholics, except this restriction, because it was apprehensive that it would be the means of future dissention in Ireland. Now, he would meet that assertion broadly, and avow his conviction, that the concession would prove the means of securing the tranquillity, the prosperity, and the future good government of Ireland. Another most reverend prelate, the head of the Church of England, differed from the most reverend prelate in the extent of his fears, and expressed a confident opinion, that the measure now before their lordships could not lead to conciliation-an opinion which he founded upon the axiom, that great bodies of people were never contented with, or grateful for the favours of their government. This axiom thus put forth, the most reverend prelate illustrated by a reference to the conduct of the Irish priesthood, who had shewn such ingratitude for the favours bestowed upon them by the foundation of the college of Maynooth. Without stopping to inquire whether the boon of education bestowed upon the priesthood in that seminary, afforded a reason for their continuing subservient to the views and interests of the government, he would ask whether other great bodies of the Catholics were found ungrateful for benefits bestowed upon them? He would ask, whether the Catholic army and navy had exhibited any want of gratitude to the Crown, or of devotion to the interests of their country? He appealed upon that subject to the noble duke opposite, whose testimony would probably be admitted upon that question, by those most opposed to the measure before the House; and he would call on him to confirm the assertion, that it was possible to conciliate the Catholics by benefits, and to secure their cordial co-ope ration by kindness and liberality. He was gratified to perceive that this question had made already so much progress, that there seemed to remain but two or three grounds on which it was now national institutions. There was, ime primis, a provision to render permanent the established church, according to the Presbyterian form of worship. There was next, a provision to render the court of session permanent; this last had already been altered six times; another was passed for rendering the hereditary juris dictions permanent; and next followed an act, for requiring that all the oaths cus tomarily taken by public officers and members of parliament should be continued by them to be taken in future, as parliament should direct." Whence it was plainly to be inferred that the possi➡ bility of their being so amended was contemplated at the time of passing the act. The Presbyterian religion was throughout marked with a thorough aversion for popery, and yet it was well worthy the consideration of the noble duke, whose prejudices were so decided on this subject, to reflect, that of the representatives of Scotland thus opposed in spirit to the Roman Catholic persuasion, forty out of forty-five voted for the present bill in the other House of Parliament, within these few days. In this vote the House, perhaps, might trace some connexion between the question before them, and the great question of parliamentary reform; nor was it to be supposed such a vote would have been given, except with a view to secure the approbation of their constituents, and their own future return to parliament. likely to be debated. It would perhaps | be pertinent to inquire, whether there was any infirmity in the government of this country, which precluded it from extending to all religious classes of its subjects those liberties and privileges which less liberal forms of government, in other countries, had felt it safe and wise to concede; or whether there were any just reasons, to be now pleaded by the opponents of concession, why this government should not follow that wise and liberal policy which had characterized the conduct of nations in many respects similarly" until they should be hereafter altered circumstanced? That this government was not precluded from following that liberal line of policy, he would take upon him to demonstrate, from an appeal to the history of our country, to which the opponents of the bill had so frequently of late invited the attention of their antagonists. The principle of the exclusion of Catholics was not to be found in the his tory of the period of the Revolution in 1688. It was to be found in no one statute of that period. It certainly was not admitted by any stipulation or public act of king William 3rd. The parliament of that day had not sanctioned by any act the doctrine that Catholics were to be excluded from seats in that House, or the Lower House, or from offices. Nor did they, it would appear from subsequent acts many years after, recognise any such principle as having actuated them at the period of 1688. In fact, the evidence of history went decidedly the other way. He had turned over with attention those acts of the Scotch parliament which preceded the Union of that country with England. Those acts might be well taken as the test of the popular indisposition in Scotland to acquiesce in any change in their established form of religion, and their firm determination to keep out popery; because, if the Church of Scotland possessed any one principle more forcibly marked than another, it was a scrupulous jealousy of the possible reintroduction of the popish religion. There was no proof given of supineness on the part of the Scottish parliament, in constructing a barrier against papal encroachment; without which the Act of Union could never have been carried. Yet, in all those preparatory acts, there were only to be found declaratory en actments of the intention of the Scottish parliament to maintain their ancient It was somewhat singular in the arguing of this question, that those very persons who, at one time told their lordships to consult the instructive page of history, and to examine with jealousy the details of the Council of Trent; at another, to analyze the dangerous principle of a divided allegiance, or look for instruction to the avowed principles of the Reformas tion, as unerring lights to guide them in their decision, should, after all, appeal to the numerical array of people who had petitioned the House, in order to induce their lordships to follow the course prescribed by the majority of petitioners to the House. He approved, for his part, of the present bill, because it gave no power, but removed another which was found prejudicial to the true interests of society. It had been argued by the right rev. prelate opposite, that the introduction of Catholic peers and representatives into directed, in order to effect its overthrow, The safety, therefore, of our established church itself demanded the concession provided for by this bill. The right rev. prelate had expressed a hope, that if the concession were made to the Catholic body, government would take effectual steps to repress the influence of the Catholic priesthood over their flocks. Now, it was very remarkable, that no such re sults had been experienced in Catholic countries, where that influence might be fairly inferred to be greater, and had nothing to control it. A remarkable instance of this kind occurred in the election of 1826 in Ireland, where the Roman Catholic priesthood interfered most de cidedly in the elections, and with great success; whilst, in the ensuing year, the attempts of the French clergy to influence the French elections were almost altogether defeated; notwithstanding their intense anxiety to effect that object, owing to the great interests they had at stake. How was this to be accounted for? Or how was it that, in a country where every bulwark was raised against the influence of the priesthood, all opposition of rank, or property, or influence, was unavailing; and yet, in a Roman Catholic country, their efforts, were defeated by the independent feeling and spirit of their own flocks? Why! because, in Ireland, the principle of exclusion was part of the constitution; but the legislature, would have the effect of creating to the Catholic body an influence, which neither the power of the Protestants, nor of the Protestant king of this country, nor of the Protestant church establishment, nor even the purity of its doctrine, more powerful than all, could ever compete with, or successfully oppose; and that the Protestant church must inevitably fall beneath the doctrines of the Romish church, which was so eminently calculated to ensnare the mind and captivate the affections. In other words, that it would overthrow in time the interests, and undermine the basis, on which our religion was founded. He would admit the bare possibility of such a result; but, would it be wise in them to legislate on a bare possibility of that undefined nature? If such a possibility were to be a ground of alarm, it was a matter of surprise to him that noble lords had, for so many hundred years, slept quietly in their beds, lest some monarch of this country should have filled as undoubtedly he might have done all places of trust and eminent station with military men, and rendered this a military despotism, through the medium of a standing army. For the last hundred years, the king might at any period, have filled all those stations with Presbyterians-than whom no class of men were more determinedly hostile to our established church, which they described openly as "the intolerable griev-in France it was unknown, or at least its ance of prelacy." So much for the dangers to be apprehended from concession. What, he would now ask, were the dangers to be anticipated to our established church, from refusing to the Catholic a fair and equal participation in the privileges and immunities of the constitution? The right rev. prelate would perceive, that such had been the growth of instruction amongst the children of the Catholic persuasion, that for one child instructed by Catholic seminaries twenty years ago, there were now three or four so instructed. He would ask that right rev. prelate, would it be advisable, pending the growth of information in this ratio in Ireland, to acquaint the rising youth of Ireland, that there was but one thing which stood between them and the attainment of high place and office, and that bar was the established church? The inference would naturally arise, that this was that body in the state to which all their efforts ought to be influence was defeated, by the silent sense of the Catholic population of that country. What colour was there for these alarms, then, with respect to the church, should the proposed concession be made; whilst the glory and success of the Catholic clergy in Ireland was proved to have its basis in the exclusions of our Statute-book? Hemost earnestly warned their lordships not to mistake those instances of exclusion from the privileges and rights of their fellowsubjects which had been adopted for temporary purposes into the constitution, for the constitution itself. Were they to act thus, the consequence would be, that they would entrench on Magna Charta itself, and the constitution would only present a mass of monstrous and accumulated disabilities, tending to the injury and oppres sion of the subject. It had been said, that the temporary ebullitions or effusions of popular feeling which had broken out in Ireland, bore a near resemblance to those volcanic eruptions which were so frequent in peculiar climates. Yet, he would remind their lordships, that even in those regions, and in that very soil which was visited with those alarming indications, under proper care and management, were produced the most abundant harvests. Had such a measure as this been earlier introduced and properly followed up, much mischief might have been saved to Ireland. But those animosities had arisen, those eruptions of heat had been displayed, and the whole condition of society in Ireland had assumed that character which had been described by the noble duke, and which never would have happened had the present measure been adopted with a wise and statesman-like policy. But the time was not yet too late. He felt grateful to his majesty's government, and to his majesty for the introduction of a measure, in which he saw only security to the state; and which, when carried into effect in a liberal and conciliatory manner, would permanently unite to us six millions of people. For these reasons, he assented to this new measure, and he supported it as cordially as if he himself had had the task of proposing the adoption of this great mea sure. The Bishop of London [Dr. Blomfield] said, it was not his intention to take up the time of their lordships with a lengthened statement of his opinions, because, on a former occasion, he had entered at considerable length into the reasons why he withheld his assent to the present bill, and nothing had since occurred which had, in any way, shaken his confidence in the conclusions at which he had arrived, after a close and careful examination of the evidence which had come before government, and before both Houses of Parliament, with respect to the state of Ireland. On the contrary, much had occurred to confirm those conclusions. Every thing which he had since heard, from persons on whose veracity he placed the utmost confidence, had strengthened his belief, that the immediate and entire removal of Catholic disabilities was not that emancipation of which Ireland stood in need. Before he recapitulated, not the reasons of his objections to this measure, but the objections themselves, he would beg permission to say one word to the noble marquis who had just sat down. He said it with all due respect to the noble marquis; but he would assert that the noble marquis Funhad placed the Church of England unfairly, in respect to this question, when he represented that church as the sole obstacle to the concession of demands, which, if withheld, would be the cause of disturbance in Ireland. It would be more correct to say, that the British constitution was the obstacle; of which the Church of England was, indeed, an integral part, because it was the dispenser of the pure word of God. It was, therefore, not a fair statement for any noble lord to say, that the Church of England was the only obstacle in the way of the boon intended for Ireland.-He could not regard the bill before their lordships as that effectual remedy for the existing disorders of Ireland, which had been anticipated; otherwise it would go far to reconcile him to a measure to which he, at present, entertained insuperable objections; but the bill adjusted only one of numerous points in dispute. When the Catholics became possessed of this one point, they would value it only as a means of securing the rest. Without manifesting any want of charity towards the Catholics as a body, he must consider them as actuated by what they considered to be a duty due to themselves. The Roman Catholic clergy would not be satisfied, until they had secured those ulterior measures, to which the present was but preliminary. Until they had attained a considerable addition to their power, they would not be content with a measure like this; which would be more likely to kindle than to extinguish the flames of discontent. The power possessed by the Roman Catholic priesthood of Ireland had been attributed by the noble marquis to the disabilities themselves. He differed from the noble marquis in that opinion, for it did not appear, and he denied that the power of the Roman Catholic priesthood arose from a sense of civil disabilities on the part of the people. It was not those disabilities which came across their minds and created the discontent in Ireland: it was a long series of mismanagement of that country; he did not mean mismanagement in an insidious sense, but a long series of mistakes and errors, which co-operated with other causes which he should not specify; for if he did he might arouse feelings which had been awakened when he addressed their lordships on a former occasion. Until those causes were removedon which the Roman Catholic disabilities "Bella geri placuit nullos habitura triumphos." In justice to a large portion of the people, the religious part of our fellow-subjects, there was something to be said, as to the duty of a Christian government, to distin had no bearing whatever-it would be of the odium which was attached to reli vain to expect that the Catholic popula- gious intolerance; and if his own indition of Ireland would be restored to tran-vidual feelings were alone concerned, he quillity. As to the degree of mischief should have abstained from expressing his which might proceed from the admission sentiments, because it was a thankless of a few Roman Catholic members into theme: the House of Commons-for he had no apprehension of danger from the admission of Roman Catholic peers to a seat in their lordships' House-as to what degree of danger that would lead to, he would tell their lordships, that such a united and compact band might carry on a very ef-guish between truth and error; as to the fective and diversified warfare, though few duty of a Protestant state, to make a disin number. Of the success of a principle tinction between fundamental truth and of action so acted upon, it was not neces- dangerous error, so far as not to make sary for him to do more than adduce one them co-ordinate powers in the state. example, from a great historian, of those But so much might be said on both sides who succeeded in overturning the church of this difficult question, that he merely reand monarchy of England at the period of ferred to it, and more especially in justithe great rebellion. "By these means,' "By these means," fication of the Protestant clergy, whose he observed, speaking of the malcontents studies led them to apply themselves more of those days, "did a handful of men, closely than others to the points of controfrom the inferior ranks of society, come to versy between the two churches, not only give law to the major part of the country." in respect to the distinction between truth It might be objected, that there was not and error, but as to their effects in a moral the least probability that the clergy would point of view. If a prevalence of study be able to succeed in reducing the Roman had led the clergy to express themselves Catholic members of parliament to a com- with warmth and energy, it was not attripact band, and as far as the Catholic aris-butable to a defect of Christian charity, tocracy was concerned, he admitted the but solely to a close application of their force of the objection. But the influence minds to those serious studies, which were of the Roman Catholic priesthood over the to qualify them for their sacred duties. members of the Lower House, would be ex-As to the recommendation of a noble lord ercised through the medium of the people. In the course of the last hundred years, that priesthood had exercised in Ireland an imperium in imperio, and it would most probably take more than a hundred years to destroy it. The noble marquis had compared the danger arising from the introduction of the Roman Catholics into the state to the danger arising from the admission of Presbyterians to the same offices. But the danger arising from the admission of any sect or description of Protestants to power bore no comparison to that of Roman Catholics. Into that question, however, he was not willing to enter; he was only anxious to justify the vote he should give, and he wished not to say a single word that would tend to exasperate feelings, which it was their duty to allay and mitigate. If this measure should pass into a law-and that it would there could be no doubt-it would be his duty to do all in his power to promote its objects. For the same reason he abstained from other topics. He was aware to the clergy, that it would be better for them to read their bible and attend to their more peculiar duties, he would only say, that it would be better if that noble lord knew what he was talking about.—For himself, he stated that evening the grounds of his objections, solely in justification of his vote, without wishing to kindle or embitter feelings, which, however they might prevail without the walls of that House, had not yet displayed themselves within. Although he did not hesitate as to the vote he should give, having made up his mind on the subject, he could not give it without pain and regret at differing from so many of those to whose opinions he was accustomed to defer, and whose friendship he highly prized, especially the members of his majesty's government, in whom he was disposed to place great confidence; and most particularly the noble duke at the head of the government, towards whom he personally owed a debt of gratitude, for his favourable opinion, and for a recommendation |