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moved the previous queftion. Lord Stormont expreffed his furprize, that the noble duke fhould have withdrawn his first refolution, becaufe it was a ground and bafis for the fecond, which was now wantonly fufpended in the air; for it could not be faid, that the fmalleft fact appeared to fupport it, or to induce the houfe to agree to it. The withdrawing of the first motion took away every pretenfion for the adop tion of the fecond. The evil complained of he could not but hold to be imaginary; and it was beneath the dignity of the peers to waste their time in fpeculating upon it. He contended, that prefident Montefquieu, in the paffage quoted by the noble duke, alluded not expreffly to the Englifi conftitution. That great politician was not fo ignorant of the English conftitution as not to know that a judicial was blended with a legislative power in the house of peers; and that the peers could aft occafionally in both capacities. It was alfo to be observed, that Montefquieu was not fond of changes even when a real grievance was difcovered. For men after fuffering an evil, know its extent, and are accustomed to bear it; but they know not the operation of the remedy that might be prescribed, and have a title to entertain apprehenfions, left they might lofe by a dopting it. That author had likeways extended his ridicule to thofe who were ever eager after a refinement on freedom; and had diverted himfelf with Harrington, who had built a Chalcedon with a Byzantium - before his eyes. To take away from judges by act of parliament the excitement of ambition and hope, would be a stroke of the vileft tyranny. Nor could he reconcile himself to the notion, that commiffions fhould be filled with lay lords. He never wished to have a

fuit in Chancery; but if that mif fortune fhould befal him, he flould think himself still more unfortunate, if the feals fhould be in any hands but thofe of the lawyers.

Lord Loughborough, in a matter in which he was fo immediately concerned, laid claim to the indulgence of the house. He remarked, that a pronenefs to fpeculation and a love of change, had been imputed to the noble duke whofe refolutions had been under difcuffion. In fome degree the obfervation might be juff, but he thought it inapplicable in the prefent cafe. The noble duke might be anxious indeed to establish a theory; but the term theory had no fort of reference to his motions. In a theory it is neceffary to look for fomething like fyftem, or arrangement, like method, or defign, or order. We defiderate fomething that is to be carried into practice; we expect the detection of an error, and the fuggeftion of an improvement. But the noble duke had pointed out no error; and was folicitous to engage them in the task of feeking a remedy for a grievance that only existed in his own imagination. He was full of complaints. He had yet af certained and defcribed no evil. He was fond of innovation. had yet afcertained and defcribed no remedy. He was profufe in impoffibilities and abfurdities. He affailed a practice which the difcretion of the crown has repeatedly exercifed, and always with approbation. He had difcovered in it nothing that is oppreffive to the fubject; and experience, the infallible tett of political truth, has demonftrated that no inconvenience can refult from it.

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The noble duke, he observed, loft in the maze of vague obferva. tion, and dreaming of unreal de. fects, was refolute to bear away

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from the human mind hopes and fears, which are infeparable from it, and upon which much of what is valuable in it depends The mind of man has indeed been reprefented in very different lights. By fome it is conceived to be every thing that is worthy and amiable; and by others it is reprefented as moft worthless and wicked. Such difquifitions are the province of moralifts; and they may have their use. But legiflators act very differently. They do not wander into abstract reafonings: they apply the reftraints of the law to any ill habit of the mind, as it becomes predominant and prejudicial to the true and rational ends of fociety.

With a wild fpirit of project the noble duke imagines that the hope of being promoted to a commiffion, which is rarely neceffary, and always of fhort duration, and the fear of being removed from a ftation fo precarious and uncertain, may at fome time or other affect the independency of the judges of the crown, and operate as ruinous temptations to corruption and fervility. From the acceffion of the illuftrious family upon the throne, the great feal has been but four times in commiffion, previously to the prefent appointment. Now the noble duke ought to have inftanced from thefe, that the judges who acted under them had acted improperly. He fhould have fhewn that their independence or integrity were hurt by their holding the great feal; and if this was im poffible, he ought to have evinced to a certainty, that the prefent commiffion was different from the former ones, and peculiarly obnoxious to animadverfion. But he had been able to collect no fact that could justify his conduct. He had no folid ground to reft upon; and he mounts up into the air.

Every man who loves the conftitution, and who venerates the laws, muft defire infinitely the indepen dence of the judges. Without their independence there could be no equal or impartial administration of jus tice. For their independence, of confequence there can be but one with and one fentiment But is it to be affirmed, that this independence is wanting? No. The conduct of the judges cannot be ar raigned. At this period they have even more independence than they ever poffeffed at any given time fince the Revolution; and it is guarded and protected in a manner the most effectual.

When a reference is made to former commiffioners, it is fit to attend to fact and experience. Did any of them betray an improper bias to the crown, or could it be ever faid, that their integrity received any taint by their having been commiffioners? In the first of the four commiffions to which he had alluded, there were fir Jofeph Jekyll, lord chief baron Gilbert, and lord Raymond. Now could it be faid of fir Jofeph Jekyll, that he was pliant and accommodating to the crown? This would be to reverfe his character altogether. His inflexibility was proverbial. Could any thing like a vile fubferviency or corruption be imputed to lord chief baron Gilbert, or lord Raymond? The tooth of calumny could not faften upon them. Their integrity and independence were as unfhaken and unfullied as their profeffional reputations were diftinguished and great. To the judges in the other three commiffions, equal praise was due; and fo far was it from being a rule, that the difcretion of the crown thould be directed in the felection of the commiffioners by a regard to feniority among the

puifne judges, that it fo happened, that in the inftances produced, the fenior puifne judge was not called to the station of a commiffioner

As to the prefent commiffion, fetting afide one perfon, he did not doubt but that thote who might fpeak of it in future times would have a title to pronounce of it in the terms he had employed with regard to former commitioners. It had indeed existed only a fhort time. An enlightened public, however, and a learned bar, would judge impartially and correctly of its conduct. As an individual, it became him only to answer for his industry, and for the intentions which he felt to difcharge with fidelity the duties of his commiffion. He was called to act; and it was the province of others to judge of him.

The noble duke had glanced at the augmentation which his majefty had been pleafed to make to the chief justice of the Common Pleas, fince he had the honour to fuftain that office. This allufion was indecent, and belonged not to the fubject under difcuffion. If the perfon who how held the office were alone confidered, the augmentation might perhaps be beyond his defert. But if the nature, and rank and duties of the office were confidered, he believed that no difpaffionate man would pronounce that it was too large. Was it not right to fecure the integrity and independence of a ftation fo important as that of the chief juftice of the Common Pleas ? When he had agreed to accept that honour, he quitted a very lucrative fituation in the profeffion; and he was given to understand, that its appointments were to be made permanently equal to what every impartial man felt to be proper for it, Under this affurance he had ac cepted the high honour which was

offered to him; leaving the office which he then held, and renounc ing all the advantages attending the practice of his profeflion. It is an obfervation, that what may be done at any time is very apt to be celayed. It happened that he continued in office nearly a year and a half before he either knew what the appointments actually were, or received any part of his falary. At length the extent of the augmentation was afcertained. But this augmentation was not perfonally and individually to him while he held the place of chief justice. The appointment was not particular and partial. It was annexed to the chief juftice of the Common Pleas, and was to go to his fucceffors.

The duke of Richmond made a few obfervations in reply to lord Loughborough. He interpreted the fpeech of his lordship to be an appeal to the paffions of the house. If he had alledged any fpecific fact as the ground of his motion, a cry would have been raised that he had made a perfonal attack. As he had fpoken at large, his argument was called theoretical and fpeculative. This would ever be the fituation of men who were ftudious to improve the conftitution, and to advance it to perfection. The bufinefs of objeton was eafy; and there was nothing, however beneficial or glorious, to which difficulties might not be oppofed. He had heard nothing that could fhake his argument; and there were perlons in the profeflion of the law who had agreed with him in the oppinion, that the commiffion fo often alluded to, attected the independency of the judges, and was to be accounted a calamity. As he had difavowed any personal intention in bringing forward his motion, he thought it strange that any imputation of that kind should

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be applied to him. But being confcious of the fincerity and patriotifm which guided him, he cared not for imputations that were not founded in reality. As to the penfion grant ed to lord Loughborough, he could not by any means approve of it; and he believed that he was not fingular in confidering it as a measure the most unwife and improper. He might be charged with the love of change, but the cenfure did not hurt him. Without change or innovation there could be no improvement. It was idle, however, to expect fuccefs in any plan or propofi

tion of reform from which adminiftration were averfe. Since, therefore, the noble duke at the head of the treafury declared, that though he agreed with him in his general principles, he was hoftile to his motion, he was indifferent in what manner it should be difpofed of. He confidered the getting rid of any motion by a previous question to be as ftrongly a rejection as a direct negative. He would therefore, at prefent, proceed no farther. The previous question was now put and carried without a divifion.

CHAP. XV.

A Bill for reforming the Public Offices. The Objects of this Bill. Com plaints of Abufes. Oppofition to the Reform Bill. It is loft in the House of

Lords.

A

MIDST the projects for ferving the nation, fuggefted not merely by the enormous load of the national debt, but by the exiftence of real and pernicious grievances, it occurred to Mr. Pitt, that a reform was highly expedient in the public offices. He accordingly prefented to the commons, "A bill for preventing abufes, and eftablishing certain regulations in the feveral offices of the Treafury, Admiralty, Ordnance, Excife, and Stamps, and of feveral other of fices." He then moved, "That there be laid before the house. 1. Accounts of the fees, gratuities, and perquifites, received and taken by any perfon or perfons in the following offices and departments, viz. the Admiralty-office, the Ordnance, the War-office, the office of comptroller of the army accounts, the Navy-office, the Navy Pay-office, the Victualling-office, the Sick and Hurt-office, the Customhouse, the Ex

cife-office, the office of furveyor general of his majesty's land revenues, the office of furveyor-general of his majefty's woods and forests, the office of taxes, the Stamp-office, the Salt-office, the hawkers and pedlar's office, and the hackney-coach office. 2. Accounts of the annual incidental charges incurred in each of the faid offices. 3. Copies of the establishments of the faid offices as they stood at Michaelmas, 1782, fhewing the numbers of the feveral officers, and clerks employed therein, with the falaries and allowances paid to each."

This bill, proposed by Mr. Pitt, comprehended a great variety of objects; and he declared that it was a part of the plan of œconomical reform which had been projected by the late administration. In preparing it, affiftance had been defired from the commiffioners of publie accounts; and it had in view the moft fimple and cafy method of

reform.

reform. He therefore flattered himfelf, that the bill, in confequence of its utility and importance, would readily pafs the two houfes of parliament.

Mr. Burke obferved, that the late .administration had been full of high profeffions of reform; but that during the fhort time in which they had continued in power, it was not very clear that they had not given way themselves to great abufes with refpect to official fees; and loud complaints of extravagant fees taken from the merchants of London, on account of paffports had been heard. It was therefore fit that their conduct fhould be inquired into, that a judgment might be formed of their fidelity and honour. He moved accordingly for, "1. An account of all fees received on paff ports given to any hips from the 30th of November, 1782, at the office of the fecretaries of state, or any other office, the quantity of the fame, and the diftribution thereof. And, 2. For copies of all letters applying for redrefs on complaining of the faid fees taken at the office of the fecretaries of state, or any other office."

Lord John Cavendish was doubtful whether the objects of the bill would be beft obtained by an act of parliament. Perhaps there were others and lefs expenfive means by which its advantages might be fecured. He thought that the regulations of the fees, gratuities, and perquifites in the different departments of the public offices, might be adjusted by each office refpectively. Where abufes had prevailed to an improper extent, an official correction might be applied. The application of this correction would, befide its proper advantage, have alto the falutary effect of giving to the different offices that weight,

pride, and confidence, which were neceffary to uphold their virtue. Now the bill in queftion would have the effect to deftroy this official confequence, and might eventually tend to endanger the whole management of the public expenditure. For if fufpicions were avowed, that the heads of the offices connived at corruptions and frauds in thofe under, them, the receipt and expenditure of the revenue would be exposed to hazard. This furmife was not to be treated flightly; and he believed that no abufe had hitherto been practifed that ought to produce a denial of confidence to the public offices.

There were other objections to the bill. If it fhould pafs, the commiffion of accounts must be continued to a great length of time. This would expofe the public to an immenfe expence; a circumftance which was a very improper operation of economy or reform. The endless variety of matter which the bill held out to obfervation and fcrutiny, would employ long and anxioufly the thoughts and labour of the commiffioners. Nor could it escape notice, that the fuperiors in each office must be neceffarily more able for this bufinefs than even the commiffioners.

It was indeed to be confeffed, that there were articles in the bill which he highly approved. The fale of offices was a matter which was infinitely abfurd; and he was ready to concur in any adviseable method for correcting an abuse that was fo notorious. It was impoffible that offices could be filled with propriety, when money and not ability was the title to them. There were other abufes pointed to in the bill, for which remedies ought to be fought for and applied. The expenditure of ftationary wares in the public

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offices,

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