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MR.

15,000 men!

low; but these warnings have been flate, affords room for effettual res treated as the visions of speculative trenchment.' I love the army as a men. England, that great and mighty body of brave and worthy men, but country, now staggers under a load of I would not facrifice the kingdom to debt; distressed and dismembered, her their benefit. Now, Sir, if minifters expences overwhelm her: and where really mean'oeconomy, they will agree is the man who will say she shall be re

with this amendment of mine; if not; deemed? Where is the man who will they will amuse us with words only: fay, "I will redeem her!' and will say

GEORGE PONSOŇ BY-I wish how? Though every little minister, not, Sir, to speak to the question, but or every little man who imagines he to advert to some expressions that fell is a minister, is ready to undertake the from the Right Honourable Baronet management of her affairs, where is who made the motion, in which hè the man who will say that Ireland glances some reflection on the perfon ought to have a peace-establishment of who filled that chair before you, whose

When the augmenta- conduct, I am certain, will stand the tion took place in Lord Townshend's test of the most minute enquiry; nor administration, this country was un can any hints from a man whose perable to bear it; and since that day we son and opinions I hold in like con have been involving her deeper and tempt have weight with me. I know deeper, because we at first engaged her every suggestion he can make on that in an undertaking beyond her ttrength. head is falle. (Mr. Ponsonby tben, with When all the world united against Bri a warmth that does honour to his filial tain, and she was surrounded with ene- piety, entered into a short defence of his famies on every fide, we gave way to the ther's conduet, (the Right Honourable Fohn feelings of our hearts,

and spared her Ponsonby, who was alluded to) and ended 4000 men; and, some time after, in the with an eielogium on the adminiftration moment de flagrante bello, we granted here, and in England, hinting that Mr. her more than half our remaining Flood had supported the administration of troops: if then, in time of war, the Lord Townshend, when the augmentacountry could subfift without troops, tion of the army took place.] will any man say that in time of pro MR. FLOOD-I supported not Mr. found peace the ought to support Ponsonby's intereft, but opposed Lord 15,000 men? No; now is the time for Townshend's adminiftration. This I reducing your military establishment. say to exculpate Mr. Ponsonby from Let your intention be known this day, the charge of ingratitude; for, when I that the right honourable secretary felt the hand of power, Mr. Ponsonby may have time to communicate with did not support me: but I never look England. If you neglect the present at fuch little things as the interests of opportunity, no minifter hereafter will particular men or their parties; they have even a pretence for restoring the appear great, indeed, to the men who finances of this country. I am no par are engaged in them, but in the eyes tizán, either here or in England; I can of the man who contemplates the pubgain nothing by it: I am ready in either lic welfare they vanish" into nothing. place, like a man, to support mini: Had I been his father's supporter, the Atérs, while they are right, and when- honourable gentleman but ill requited ever they are wrong to oppose them, me, when in his loudest tone he cried and refift their measures. At present, out to have me dismissed, and seemed I hope my honourable friend will al to reproach ministers with pufillanilow me to alter his motion, and state mity for delaying the sentence. Не a precise idea. I would have it ruă declared, indeed, that he had no perthus: • Resolved, that the condition sonal dislike to me, but it was only to of this country requires every praéti. oblige one or two particular friends; cable retrenchment, &c. and that the yet the gentleman boasts of whig prin military eftablishment, in it's prefent ciples; whig connections: whig friends

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he may juftly boast, but such conduct rected in your future provisions. Now, was a manifestation of whig apoftacy. Sir, if the right honourable mover will God and nature have established this make his motion as an instruction to limit to power-it cannot long subfift the committee of accounts, I have no divested of rectitude.'' Do we mean to objection to it; and, from the known take up the work of retrenchmentour- integrity and experience of the gentle. selyes, or shall we leave it to others to men who have managed the establish. do it for us? Shall we retrench our ments for the two last years, I have the own expences, or leave it to others to most Aattering hope of every requisite economize for us? If we proceed upon affistance in effecting all possible rea this business, the people will stand trenchments. grateful and admiring fpectators of our The Prime SerJEANT declared progress; if not, they may perhaps take his disapprobation of the motion, as it up themselves. Let us, then, act premature; the committee of accounts honestly; let us tell Great Britain what not having as yet entered upon bufiness. no man can deny, that the military is MR. GRATTAN-I fall not trouthe place to make retrenchment. I ble you long, nor take up the time of will suppose ministers as good as any the House by apologizing for bodily man can wilh; but it is our duty to infirmity, or the affectation of infirmi. give them opportunities of exercising ty. I shall not speak of myself, or entheir honeft intentions.

ter into a defence of my character, hava Mr. George PONSONBY.--I did ing never apoftatized. I think it not not call upon administration to turn the necessary for the Houfe now to inver right honourable gentleman from his ftigate what we know to be a fact. I: employment; he was then in oppofi. think it would be better to go into the tion; and I said, that I was not, for my business, as the House did upon anpart, afraid to lose a profitable employ- other occasion, without waiting the

formality of the committee's report. [The speaker called the gentlemen to As to myself, the honourable reward order, and said no mention could be made that a grateful nation has bestowed in that House of any thing which had upon me, for ever binds me to make passed formerly.]

every return in my power, and partiM. BUSHE--The resolution re- cularly to oppofe every unnecessary quires time to consider it; it involves expence. I am far from thinking with much matter. I recollect, indeed, our the honourable gentleman, as to the sending 4000 men to die in the West speech; and I believe he will find inIndies, at a time when we dared not stances where economy has been resend a shroud to bury them in. Why commended from the throne, but prodo we appoint a committee of accounts, digality practised. This was the case if we do their business before they meet in Lord Harcourt's administration

MR. PELHAM-I am really an an administration which had the fupenemy to previous questions, and would port of the honourable gentleman;and rather meet the right honourable baro- therefore he, of all men, cannot be at net's motion itself. The question is a loss to reject that illusory economy such a one as I would readily accede which has so often appeared in the to, for I am flattered and encouraged speeches of lord-lieute jants. With by what the right honourable gentle respect to the Genevefe, I never could man has said on the occafion respecting have thought it possible to give the both kingdoms. But can any harm speech such a bias as has been menresult from poffeffing ourselves of every tioned; and people will be deceived, possible information: you have an ad if they give credit to any declamation vantage in this kingdom we have not that infers from thewords of the speech in England, of seeing the accounts of any thing but an honest æconomy in the two last years, by which you may applying the public money fairly to with some degree of certainty be dia their use. The nation has derived VOL, III.

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great honour from this transaction, and not bring in that bill, or permit any I should be sorry to have it tarnished other person to do it I am not one by inference and infinuation. In 1771, who threatened to impeach the Chief when the burdens of the country were Justice of the King's Bench for acting comparatively small, I made a motion under an English law, and afterwards fimilar to this; the honourable gentle shrunk from that bufiness--I am not man tken opposed me. I have his the author of the simple Repeal-I am fanction, now, that I was right, and he not one who, after saying the parlia. was wrong; and I say this, that though ment was a parliament of prostitutes, gentlemen may, for a while, vote endeavoured to make their voice fub. againft retrenchments abfolutely ne fervient to my intereft-I am not one. cessary, I am not very sure that this is who would come at midnight, and atjust the time to make it in the army-' tempt a vote of this House, to fifle, now, when England has acted justly, the voice of the people, which my I will not say generously-now, when egregious folly had raised against me the has loft her empire--when she still -I am not the gentleman who fub. feels the wounds of the last unhappy fifts upon your accounts.I am not the war, and comforts herself only with mendicant patriot, who was bought the faithful friendship of Ireland. It, by my country for a sum of money, in 1769, when the liberties of Ireland and then fold my country for

prompt were denied, and tho fe of America in payment I am not the man who in danger, it was thought unadviseable this House loudly complained of an to retrenchour army--there can be no infringement made in England, in infuch reason to reduce it now, when cluding Ireland in a bill, and then sent both are acknowledged and confirm. a certificate to Dungannon that Ireed. When we voted 4000 men to land was not included-I never was butcher our own brethren in America, bought by the people, nor ever fold the honourable gentleman should have them. The gentleman says he never opposed that vote; but perhaps he will apoftatized, but I say I never changed be able to explain the proprietyoffend- my principles; let every man fay the ing 4000 Iridhmen thither. But why fame, and let the people believe them if not look for retrenchment in the reve. they can. But if it be so bad a thing nue and other departments. In my to take an office in the state, how comes mind, the proper mode would be, to the gentleman connected with persons form a fair estimate of what would be in office? They, I hope, are men of a reasonable peace-establishment, and virtue; or how came the gentleman fo Ieduce our several departments to it. closely connected with Colonel Fitz.

MR. FLOOD-The right honour. patrick? I object to no man for being able member can have no doubt of the in office; a patriot in office is the more propriety of my saying a word in re a patriot for being there. There was ply to what he has delivered. Every a time when the glories of the great member in the House can bear wit. Duke of Marlborough shrunk and winess of the infirmity I mentioned; and, thered before those of the right hotherefore, it required but little can- nourable gentleman; when palaces fu. dour to make a nocturnal attack upon perior to Blenheim were to be built that infirmity: -but I am not afraid of for his reception; when pyramids the right honourable member; I will and pillars were to be raised, and meet him any, where, or 'upon any adorned with emblems and infcripground, by night or by day. I hould ţions sacred to his virtue; but the pil. Land poorly in my own estimation, lars and pyramids are now funk, and in my country's opinion, if I did though then the great Earl of Chat. not Aand far above him. I do not ham was held inferior to him: howcome here dressed in a rich wardrobe ever, he is still so great, that the Queen of words, to delude the people. I am of France, I dare say, will have a long not one who has promised repeatedly made on the name of Grattan. Lord to bring in a Bill of Rights, yet does Harcourt practised economy; but

what was the economy of the Duke land by English law; I therefore spoke of Portland ?---100,000l. was voted to to that effect in this House; I also raise 20,000 seamen, though it was well thewed the bill to all the most able and known that one-third of that number virtuous men in this kingdom, who could not be raised and what the were ofopinion that my fuggeftion was application of the money? It was ap- wrong; under this opinion I acqui. plied to the raising of the execrated efced, and the event has justified it. Fencibles. It is said that I supported. As to my coming at midnight, to ob. Lord Harcourt's administration: it is tain a vote imposing a filence on the true; but I never deferted my princi. people, I deny it; it was mistated in ples, for I carried them into the cabin the papers: my resolution was to de. net with me. A gentleman, who now clare this country free, and that any kears me, knows that I proposed to the person who should speak or write to the Privy Council an Irish Mutiny-bill, contrary was a public enemy. All the and that not with a view of any par: Houfe, all the revered and respectable liamentary grant. I supported an ab- characters in the kingdom, heard me, fentee tax; and, while I was in office, and know what I say is true but it is registered my principles in the books not the flander of the bad tongue of a of government; and the moment I bad character that can defame me. I could not influence government to the maintain my reputation in public and advantage of the nation, I ceased to in private life; no man who has not a act with

them.--I acted for myself.- bad character can say I ever deceived I was the first who ever told them that him; no country has called me cheat. an Irish Mutiny-bill must be granted. I will fuppose a public character, a If this country is now satisfied, is it man not now in this Houfe, but whe Owing to tht gentleman! No, the fim- formerly might have been here--I will ple Repeal, disapproved and scouted fuppofe it was his constant practice to by all the lawyers in England and Ire, abuse every man who differed from land, thews the contrary; and the only hiin, and to betray every man who apology he can make is, that he is no trafted him. I will suppose him active; lawyer at all. A man of warm ima- I will begin from his cradle,and divide gination and brilliant fancy will some- his life into three itages: in the first he times be dazzled with his own ideas, was intemperate, in the second corand may for a moment fall into error; rupt, and in the third seditious. Supbut a man of found head could not pose him a great egotift; his honour make so egregious a mistake, and a equal to his oath; and I will stop him, -man of an honest heart would not per- and say 'Sir, your talents are not so fift in it after it was discovered. I great as your life is infamous; you have now done; and give me leave to were filent for years, and you were - fay, if the gentleman enters often into • silent for money: when affairs of conthis kind of colloquy with me, he will ' sequence to the nation were debat. not have much to boast of at the end ing, you might be seen passing by of the feffion.

thefe doors, like a guilty spirit, just Mr. GratTAN-In respect to the waiting for the moment of putting House, I could wish to avoid persona the question, that you might pop in lity, and return to the question; but • and give your venal vote; or you I must request liberty to explain some might be seen hovering over the circumstances alluded to by the ho • dome, like an ill-omen's bird of nourable member. The honourable night, with sepulchral notes, a ca- member has alluded to the St. Chrif • daverous aspect, and broken beak, topher's bill; I will declare the fact • ready to stoop and pounce upon your be may tell a fory--when I received a prey. You can be trusted by no man copy of that bill, it gave me much • coche people cannot trust youm-the pain, and much offence: I thought I minifters cannot trust you; you deal law the old intention of binding Ire out the molt impartial treachery to

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• both; you tell the nation it is ruined House, by informing the Speaker, that * by other men, when it is sold by you he thought it would be proper for the

-you fied from the Embargo--you preservation of the peace, and to pre* Aed from the Mutiny-bill-you fed vent any mischief that might ensue * from the Sugar-bill. I therefore tell from the unhappy difference that arose

you, in the face of your country, be- between two members of that House, : fore all the world, and in your very as also for the dignity of the House, beard--you are not an honest man!' that a mode should be ftruck out for

Mr. FLOODI have heard a very taking them into custody, either by extraordinary harangue indeed, and I the Serjeant at Arms, the sheriffs of challenge any man to say that any the city, or some other persons ap. thing half so 'unwarrantable was ever pointed for that purpose; which being uttered in the House. The right ho- fettled, (after the Provost, Mr. Bennourable gentleman set out with de- net, Mr. Gardiner, the Recorder, and claring, he did not wish to use per- some other members had spoke to the fonality, and no sooner has he opened business) the Speaker, attended by fe. his mouth, than forth issues all the veral members, most patiently waited venom that ingenuity and disappoint- a full hour, when General Luttrell ined vanity, for two years brooding over formed the Speaker, that a magistrate corruption, has produced--but itcan- (Alderman Exshaw)whohad taken one not taint my public character: four of the members (Mr. Flood) into cus. and twenty years employed in your tody, was then at the bar, and request, fervice has eitablished that; and, as to ed he would lay his commands on him, my private, let that be learned from to have the said member forth-coming my tenants, from my friends, from in the morning, and to use his best those under my own roof--to those I endeavours for taking the other into appeal, and this appeal I boldly make, custody. The Recorder, likewise, by with utter contempt of insinuations, consent of the House, issued a warrant falfe as they are illiberal! The whole for that purpose; after which the House force of what has been said refts upon adjourned. this, that I once accepted an office, and this is called apostacy; but is a man the less a patriot for being an ho This morning Mr. Flood and Mr. neft servant of the Crown? As to me, Grattan were brought before Lord I took as great a part with the first Chief Justice Annaly; the former by office of the state at my back, as ever Alderman Exshaw, and the latter by the right honourable gentleman did Sheriff Kirkpatrick. His lordship, afwith mendicancy behind him! ter severe, but friendly reprimands,

Mr. Flood rose again, and was pro and official admonitions, bound them ceeding-when the Speaker at last both over to the peace, in recognis rose, and called for the support of the zances of 20,00ol. each. House, to keep the gentlemen in or It appears that Mr. Flood and Mr. der; and, on Mr. John Burke's mov Grattan, attended by their respective ing, that the gentlemen might be made friends, had almost reached the ground to promise that nothing farther should appointed for a serious interview, when pals between them, the House was they were taken into safe custody, cleared; during which, Mr. Flood and through the vigilance of the magi. Mr. Grattan disappeared.

ftrates, before they arrived at BallyAfter some farther debate on the bough Bridge. motion then under the confideration Mr. Flood has asserted that, previ. of the House, the general sense of the ous to the commencement of this fermembers appearing to be against it, fion, he sent a friend to Mr. Grattan, it was negatived without a division. defiring that all personal animosity

At eleven o'clock the question of might cease, and that their former adjournment was agreed to; when Mr. differences of opinion might not be Folter called the attention of the brought in any manner before the

House;

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