theory was found to be abfurd in feveral refpects; for, as it was compofed of three eftates, it was abfurd to think that one man fhould have an equal power to the whole multitude; therefore in the practical part that power was wifely reftrain-pointed fimilar to that moved for laft ed. Much had been faid concerning the year, as he did not think the prefent moduration of Parliaments, and many had tion would go far enough; but, as he afcribed all our calamities to their long was confident that what was now moved continuance. Neither hiftory nor expe- for, would be an amendment, he fhould rience, he faid, had furnished matter to give it his hearty fupport. confirm that opinion. The nation had been brilliant and fuccefsful under fhort and long Parliaments. The noble Lord in the blue ribbon had called the American war the war of the people. It was begun by their wifhes, and when it was no longer popular it was ended." He denied that affertion. Had Parliament C fpoken the language of the people, it had been much fooner ended, and the ruin that has followed been prevented.

that would redrefs the grievances complained of. He entered very fully into the nature of the conftitution, expreffed himself a warm friend to a reform, and wifhed that a committee had been apA

B

With refpect to what the noble Lord had faid, “that, by adding more knights for the counties, the landed would be an over-match for the commercial intereft:" Though, as things are now fituated, the D

Mr. Welbore Ellis fupported Lord North's argument. He was not for tampering with and torturing the conftitution; for, if we should once begin, we should never know when to make an end.

He

Sir Ch. Turner was warmly for a reformation. He was fure it was much wanted. He paid many compliments to the abilities of Mr. Beaufoy, who had anfwered all the fophiftry of the enemies to a reform with folid argument. adverted to what had been faid by Mr. Powys and Ld North about the towns of Wakefield, Leeds, Halifax, &c. nct petitioning. He faid, the principal people in thofe towns had all to a man figned the county petition.

Ld Adv. faid, that last year he was against going into committee upon the fubject of reform, because there was no fpecific motion made; now he was for the motion, because he thought it a good E one. He always approved of the county members: they were gentlemen of family, who had characters at flake, which made them above being corrupted; and therefore he gave the motion his hearty affent. He entered into a juftification of his own conduct, which was foreign to the quef flion.

landed intereft is fo blended with the cominercial, that they are almoft infeparable, and that there is nothing to fear on that account; yet, fhould the motion be carried, he fhould not be for adding all to the counties and the capital, but fome to the great towns of Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, &c. in order to make the reprefentation more equal. As to the offer of Mr. T. Pitt, to furrender his borough of Old Sarum as a voluntary facrifice to the national interefts, that gentleman knew that it could not be accepted, therefore the merit was not fo great as it appeared. He then touched fightly upon what had been F faid in the Houfe of Lords, of the right of the Peers to interfere in money-bills, and ridiculed the idea of perfons officiously meddling with what did not concern them, and talking of things in a place where they are altogether improper. He entered into a ftrong vindication of the Yorkshire and other committees from the fneers thrown upon them by Mr. Powys. He would not, he faid, run into a long hiilory of a crooked leg, in which the hoa, Gent. conducted himfelf but lameIv; but would openly and boldly declare it the duty of that Houfe to adminifter for the relief of the conftitution, not, in-H deed, exactly as called to by the wild, extravagant doctrine of letting every man • who was not a fool or a madman vote, Wht by taking fome wife falutary steps

Capt. Luttrell entered deeply into the fubject, and fhewed the folly and abfurdity of recurring to firft principles. He faid, the noble tree of our glorious conflitution, nurfed with all the care, the industry, and wifdom of our anceflors, and which had flourished for many ages, was left us in beauty fufficient to excite Gthe envy and admiration of all the world. Our predeceffors beheld it as a fenfitive plant, which to touch but a fibre of would cause the whole to fhrink. It was left for modern political artifls to prune and to lop its molt expanded branches; and now they would have us believe that by cutting more fuckers from the root, it would produce better foots; but the experiments lately made have ferved to prejudice rather than improve the plant; and much as he refpected

the

oppofing the motion on the fame grounds. and wondered much at the converfion of the Ld. Advocate.

the ability and ingenuity of its prefent principal manager, he doubted his fkill being equal to the reftoration of its loft vigour, fuppofing he profeffed the in- Mr. Martin fupported the motion. tention to attempt it. From this ftrain He ironically thanked Mr. Powys for Α of metaphor Mr. L. proceeded to hifto-his civility to th: Conftitutional Society; rical facts; he traced the rife and pro- faid, that fociety was indeed under-profegrefs of Parliamentary ufage from the cution for a publication which he was earlieft date to the prefent times; and fure, notwithstanding, would do it concluded with this declaration, that he honour. [Dial. between a Gentleman thought the motion of the Right Hon. and a Farmer.] Gent. tended rather to deftroy than to B repair the conftitution. Withing, as he did, rather to be governed by the King of the country (and by a better King it never was governed) than by the Lords and great Commoners; and thinking too that agreeing to the motion would only tend to fubvert inftead of to uphold the rights of reprefentation; he should vote for the order of the day.

The E. of Surrey thought the motion did not go near far enough. He had hoped the burgefs-tenures would have been abolished, and the rotten boroughs disfranchifed. He faid, he would not be called to order by afferting that fome members did give soool. and fome 3500l. for their feats; but he would fay the people without doors believed that they did, and confidently faid as much.

Mr. Ald. Sawbridge spoke in favour of the motion; he defended the quintuple alliance, and thought that though univerfal reprefentation would be abfurd, fomething nearly approaching to equal reprefentation might be acquired.

Hon. Anne Poulet fpoke vehemently Cagainst the motion.

Mr. Dempster was likewife against the motion, on the ground that as he was the reprefentative of a borough, he could by no means give his atfent to a vote that would leffen the influence of his conftituents.

Sir John Delaval was likewife again Dthe motion.

Sir Watkin Lewes thought himfelf obliged to the Right Hon. Gent. for bringing forward his propofitions, thʊ' he could not help declaring they did not go to the extent of his wifhes; however, as they tended in fome measure to secure the independence of Parliament, they E fhould have his warmeft fupport.

Mr. Rigby fpoke violently against the motion; ridiculed the petitions, and declared that he would fooner fee another member added to Old Sarum, than another member added to the city of London. He thought the fpirit of innovation had already been carried too far, and the influence of the Crown too much curtailed. The public could not but feel this, and Minifters, he was fure, felt it as a great inconvenience in the execution of the neceffary bufincfs of F government. He inftanced particularly in the want of a board of trade. He concluded a fenfible fpeech with trufting that the time was not far diftant when the influence of the Crown would be rettored.

Mr. Sheridan did not think the motion went far enough-Shortening the duration of Parliament was one of the great objects which the petitions had in view, and which in his mind, properly. purfued, would tend in a great mealure to correct the vice in the reprefentaion of the people; he wished therefore to fee a claufe in the bill for that purpofe. He ironically complimented the Ld Adv. and Mr. T. Pitt, as new converts to Mr. W. Pitt.

Mr. Mansfield followed Ld North in

M. W. Pitt now rofe, and entered fhortly into the arguments which had been advanced against his propofitions, and refuted them with great ability and addrefs.

At two in the morning the question was called for, when the houfe divided on the order of the day. Ayes 293. Noes 149. Majority against Mr. Pitt's propofitions 144.

May 8,

The Lords fent down the amendment of the bill for opening the intercourfe with America. In that bill there was a G claufe which gave the King and Council a power of making whatever regulations they thould deem neceffary; but the duration of this power was limited to fix weeks. The amendment extended this power to the 27th of Dec. from the day the bill fhould pafs.

The Speaker observed, tha”, as the bill empowered the Crown to impote duties, it was, ftrictly speaking, a money-bill; and therefore the Houfe could not confiftently fuffer the Lords to make an amendment in it.

Mr.

there, and which were then reprobated by a particular part of the House. He could not help remarking, he faid, a strange conduct in the Admiralty in difcharging a perfon from actual duty at that board, [meaning Mr. Jackfon, and putting the

Mr. W. Pitt agreed with the Speaker; but ftill he could not but condemn a doctrine which he had yesterday heard laid dwn by a Right Hon. Gent. [Mr. Fox], which went to arraign the right of the Houfe of Peers to give their opinion of what might appear to them an improvi-publick to the expence of a penfion of dent loan; for he held that they had a conflitutional right to give their opinions, and even to tranfmit them to pofterity by a proteft.

400l. a year, merely to make room for another A more able and a more honeft man never ferved the publick, than Mr. Jackfon; and, to his knowledge, he was Mr. Fox faid, he never meant to lay at this time in full poffeffion of all his tadown any fuch doctrine; for it would be lents, and as capable and willing to ferve very abfurd indeed to fend a loan bill to B the publick as ever. He remonftrated the Lords for their concurrence, and at against other promotions, as an unnecefthe fame time deprive them of the right fary burden to the country. They gave of deliberation. What he meant was but a bad fample of the parfimony and fimply this, that it was not very decent economy that it was agreed, on all for the Lords to lay down plans and hands, were fo neceffary to be adhered fchemes for making loans, which be- to, in order to recover the country, and longed folely to the Commons. He was Crefore it to its former degree of firength. wining that the amended bill should be He complained too of the enormous arejected, though he was of opinion that mount of the Navy Extraordinaries; the order of the Houfe, refpecting money- which, he faid, were more by 200,000l. bills, was often too ftrictly conftrued than were afked for at the end of the laft The amendment was poftpened for three war for the fame service. months; and Mr. Fox immediately moved for a new bill, which was verbatim the fame with the amended bill fent down by the Lords.

Hon 7. Town/bend accounted for this Dexcefs, by acquainting the Houfe, that in the prefent eftimate was included a fum for Lord Rodney's prizes, the claimants for which were very clamorous; and, allowing for thefe, and fome other matters that ought to be taken into the acthousand pounds. count, the prefent eftimate would be found to exceed the former but in a very few

Mr. Eden thought the amendment unneceffary, even though the duration of the power had been more limited; for a Pied would be in force after the pot, E proclamation iffued while the power exHe quoted a cafe in point,

fhould ceafe.

and the converfation ended, May 12.

The Houfe in a Committee of Supply, Lord John Cavendish ftated to the Committee the taxes that have proved deficient; and moved,

That a fum, not exceeding 46,4441. be granted to make good the deficiency of the fund eftai libed for paying annuities granted in the year 1756.

That 162,1911. be granted to make good the deficiencies of the fame year. That 63,8881. be granted to make good the deficiency of 1979.

That 141,70l. be granted to make good deficiencies in 1780.

That 138,6521, be granted to make good deficiencies in 1782.

That 282,50zl. more be granted for deficiencies in the fame year.

Thefe motions were feverally agreed to, and ordered to be reported,

Mr. Duller oblerved on the eflimates of the Admiralty, Board, that they followed the faine fteps that were the rule of office when he had the honour of fitting

Mr. Hopkins was of a contrary opinion to Mr. Buller; for, inftead of asking too much, he thought the very reverse. The fum asked for last year was undoubtedly large. But why was it fo? Because the fums afked for in former years were too Ffmall. He did not, he faid, blame Lord Sandwich. He meant to carry his cen◄ fure much higher-to the noble Lord who had prefided over the government of this country at the commencement, and during the continuance, of that ac curled, ruinous, and deftru&tive AmeriGean war. [This brought on a conversation, of which enough has been already faid in the couife of thefe debates.]

Lord Mulgrave anfwered Mr. Buller's objections to feveral articles in the estimates of the Admiralty Board, particu larly that refpecting promotions, which he hoped never to fee dealt out at the end of a war with a fparing hand. It was that kind of reward that beft gratis fied the honeft pride of thofe men who readily risked their lives in the fervice of their country. He juftified the penfion

granted

granted to Mr. Jackfon; and though he gave him credit for all that had been faid of him by Mr. Buller, yet, his lordfhip faid, it was well known that, during the whole continuance of the lare war, all the fecret and confidential bufinefs of the Admiralty was done by the present subfecretary, Mr. Brett.

his motives for going to Bombay, he owned, required explanation. He said, the race was not between Sir R. B. and a fingle fhip, but between Sir R. B. and a French commander, fet out fince, who, A by going round the Cape, had got his men fick, and was actually diftanced by Sir R. B.

Capt. J. Luttrell [of the navy] brought forward a converfation on the conduct of the navy under the Earl of Sandwich; who, he faid, was the chief caufe of its being in fo wretched a state at the comB mencement of the war. He faid, the French and we had run a race who fhould get first to the East Indies; and yet we had found that a French frigate had got there full four months before Sir Richard Bickerton. Perhaps the whole of our polfeflions in India depended on that circumitance. Sir R. B's orders ought, therefore, to be laid before the Houfe. He complained of the want of attention in manning our hips. We had fhips, but no men, at least not enough that were efficient. He wished the Houfe to confider what was the aim of other governments. They were looking a century forwards, in order to crush our maritime power; and we were looking a century backwards.

Loid Mulgrave entered into a full justification of Lord Sandwich;

And Captain Luttrell replied. He faid, that, owing to his Lordship's mifconduct, our poffeffions in India were put to hazard; that the latenefs of Sir R. B.'s fleet had given the enemy, for a long time, a great fuperiority over us, and the reafon of his ftopping on the voyage he could not fee.

Gen. Smith gave notice, that important news had that day been received from the East Indies; by which it appeared, that both Sir Edw. Hughes and Sir Rd. Bickerton had left the Coromandel coat to the mercy of the enemy, and what the confequence would be GOD only knew. He thought Sir R. B. inftead of going to Bombay, fhould have purfued his courfe to Anjango, where he must have fooner learned the fituation and force of the

Sir W. James believed the orders given to Sir R. B were very proper, and as properly executed. The race between a large fleet and a fingle fhip would fcarcely bear comparifon.

Gen. Smith perfifted in the propriety of his former remark, that Sir R. B. ought to have gone to Anjango. All India rung with complaints on that fubject.

Sir W. James replied, that the Hon. Gent. was certainly a very good general Cby land. His conduct had proved it; but, if he might be permitted to vie with him in any thing, it was in point of seamanfhip. Had Sir R. B. proceeded to Anjango, the Hon. Gent. must be told, that the westerly monfoon prevailed, and had Bombay been in danger, he could Dn not have got to its reljef in defs than two months; whereas, by meeting the Bombay cruizers with intelligence, in lat. 18 or 19, he had all India at his command.

E

Gen. Smith faid, he had himself made that voyage, meaning from Anjango to Bombay, in less than two months confiderably.

Mr. Aubrey adverted to what had been faid of penfions and promotions by the Board of Admiralty, and of that rigid economy that ought to be preferved in the expenditure of the public money, in every department of the ftate. He wished to GOD that this principle had always been adhered to in the department of F which he had lately the honour to make a very inconfiderable part. The navy would then have borne fome proportion to the fums that have been appropriated to its fervice; but in public, as well as in private transactions, there may be an ex cefs of oeconomy that tended to defeat its own purpofe: and he took this to be the defcription of that parfimony which the Hon. Gent. [Mr, Buller] had fo feverely cenfured. The promotions fo much complained of confifted of 39 masters and commanders promoted to the rank of poft-captains, and of 20 lieutenants, who had been made masters and commanders; that the promotions of the firft clafs had conferred rank without any additional pay; that the promotions of the fecond clafs had indeed loaded the half

pay

fented.

Gov. Johnfione now moved, That all the inftructions that had been given to Sir Rich. Bickerton, relative to the reinforcing Sir Edw. Hughes, should be laid before the Houfe.

pay establishment with the additional electors having told a friend of one of the barden of three faillings a day to 20 de candidates at a late election that they inferving officers of the fleet, who had ad- tended to vote as he fhould direct, but ded honours to the British flag. This, could not answer for themselves if they he believed, would neither excite the A should get intoxicated when the election cenfure of the Committee, nor a murmur came on; they therefore defired that they among the people whom they repre- might be permitted to fleep at his houfe a night or two before. They were accommodated with beds accordingly; but not being fupplied with liquor, as they expected, they grew diffatisfied with their quarters, and found means to let the opBpofite party know it, who, in the night, got a ladder up to the window of the room where they were kept, and took them out, and having a poft-chaife ready, crammed them in (for they were fat men), fhut them up clofe, and drove them to a gentleman's houfe about five miles from Gloucefter, where, when the C door was opened, they were found literally what is called Dead Votes, for they were both fuffocated.

Capt. J. Luttrell feconded the motion. Mr. Sec. For oppofed it, because no reafon had been given for bringing it

forward.

Capt. Sir John Jarvis (poke highly in favor of Sir R. B. as a skilful, able, and .lant officer.

Capt. Luttrell and Gor. Jebuflone declared they intended not fo much as to infinuate any thing to the contrary. The motion was withdrawn.

-May 13.

On the motion, That the report from the Committee on the eftimates for the adinary and extraordinary of the navy,D be read a fecond time,

Mr. Buller role, and made fome remarks on what was faid the preceding day; but, as no anfwer was made, the report was read the third time, and fully agreed to.

May 14.

The Houfe in Committee on Ld. MaE hon's Bill for preventing Bribery, Corruption, and Expences at Elections. This bill was agitated in the preceding feflion, and though it was then generally approv ed, yet, when it came to be debated, claufe by claufe, there were fo many of jections made to each, that it was found necellary to defer it to the prefent feffion, when it met the fame fate as before.

The first claufe enacted, "That no money whatever fhould be given, under a fevere penalty, to any elector, on pretence of defraying his expences to the place of lection."

Mr. Powys moved an amendment, to exempt from the penalty all perfons not interested in the event of the election.

Lord Mabon (aid, this would entirely defeat the principle of the bill.

Mr. Barrow oppofed the amendment, and propofed a claufe to fubject to a peBalty all thole who thould confine or take away voters. This practice is what, in electioneering language, is called bottling electors. As a ground for this claufe, he Eelated the following fact: A couple of

F

Mr. Martin thought cle&ors ought to travel at their own expence. When their expences are paid, they are the bondmen of those who pay them.

The queftion was put on the amendmend moved by Mr. Powys, which was negatived without a divifion.

Mr. Barrow then moved his claufe, which was carried 55 to 47. Adjourned. May 15.

Mr. Ald. Sawbridge rofe, and renewed his annual motion, but with no better fuccefs than the preceding year.

Mr. Barrow oppofed it till the bill fhould be carried into a law to prevent expences at elections, and moved the previous question.

Mr. Penruddock feconded the motion. Sir Edw: Aftley infifted upon it, as the people's right. Our ancestors, at a critical moment, confented to the measure of feptennial parliaments; but now, when the fame political caufe no longer exifted, parliaments ought to be reduced to their former standard.

Mr. Sawbridge faid, he would not fuffer gentlemen to fkulk behind a previous queftion; they fhould fpeak out, Gor he would renew his motion day after day, till they did.

Mr. Barrow then withdrew his motion, and the Houfe divided.. Noes 123. Ayes 56.

The Houfe went into committee on the Pay-Office Bill, filled up the blanks, and adjourned.

May 19. Gen. Smith gave notice that he would, on Wednesday, move fome refolutione, grounded