Sir Robert Herries enforced the objection that had been made by Ld Sheffield, Mr. Eden, and others, to the claufe in the bill exempting the Americans from producing c'earances. As the law flood, and it was the law of all the commercial world, there was a neceflity for all fhips to be furnished with bills of lading or clearances to prevent fmuggling. Should the bill pats into a aw, muggling, which fo many laws had been made to prevent, would in fact be eftabl.fhed by law He would therefore have the A-motion was agreed to. mericans in this refpect placed on the 'fame footing with all other nations, and not be free from restrictions by which e-ven British fulj. Ets were bound. toms, and that American fhips fhould bring no commodities into this realm o ther than the produce of their own country. Till, therefore, commercial regulations are agreed to by treaty, there feems an alfolute neceffity for vesting in Athe crown certain general powers that may apply in all cafes whatsoever. Mr. Arden moved for the infertion of a claufe to limit the powers vested in the crown to the term of fix weeks from the day the bill fhould pafs into a law. This Ld Newhaven expreffed his furprize that the minutes of the Treafury-board (fee p. 614) relative to the difmiffion of two principal clerks from the Pay-office, had not been laid before the Houfe. The Speaker faid, that though such a Cmotion had been mentioned, it had never been made. Mr. Fox faid, there was no fuch minute exifting in the Treafury. There was indeed a minute of an examination, but not of difmiffion. April 25. D Mr. Fox oblerved, that the object of the prefent bill was not to establish any regulation whatever; it was only to remove obftacles that ftood in the way of an immediate intercourfe with America. The regulations would be brought forward in proper time. He lamented that the late miniftry had totally forgotten in the provifional treaty to fay a fingle word concerning the commercial interefts of either ftate. Had they only faid, “that all forts of hoftilities fhould cease, and that the prohibitory laws that impeded the commerce of the two countries fhould no longer have effect on either fide:" this would have faved a world of trouble to government, and to both Houses of Parliament an infinite deal of argument; but, as this was neglected, it becomes neceffary for his Majefty's prefent fervants to apply the beft remedy the nature of the cafe will admit; and, as the time was fhort that the bill would be ad- F mitted to operate, he could fee nothing to apprehend from its liberality. Mr. Arden contended against vefting the crown with unlimited powers but for a moment. He was for expreffing in the bill the full extent of thofe powers, beyond which minifters fhould not dare to proceed. Mr. Eden could not fee how any fuch power could be defined, unless it were poffible to forefee every poffible difficulty which could arife, which human forefight had never yet been able to reach. He contended, that, as the laws now ftand, were the prohibitory laws and thofe that impofe a neceflity of being furnifhed with manifefts, &c. to have no exiftence, other powers would be neceffary before an American fhip could enter a British port to any purpose. There are laws that enjoin all American commodities to be imported in British botGENT. MAG, Sept. 1783. Sir Edw. Afley rofe to execrate a lottery as dangerous and deftructive of all moral principle. It was, he faid, iniquitous in the firft inftance, by gaming in an unfair manner; and it was villainous in its tendency, by giving countenance to all forts of fraud. Ld J. Cavendish affured the hon. Baronet, that no man detefted lotteries more than he did; but, while the neceffities of the ftare were fuch as to make an expedient of that kind necessary, it must be complied with.-Another reason was, that, were the people reftrained from gambling at home, they would certainly gamble abroad, in the Irish, the Dutch, and the French lotteries. The Mr. Smith (partner in a bankinghoufe) rofe, and complained of the injury done to the banking-houfe in the firm of which his name flood foremost. noble Lord, he faid, put down the banking-house of Smith and Payne as fit perfons to be applied to on the bufinefs; but, when the diftribution came to be made, that houfe was totally forgotten; and, if he was not mifinformed, his ldp. had been heard to give this as a reason, that the houfe, in former loans, had made a very improper ufe of the part they had given them, and had materially hurt the bufi Mr. Wilberforce was against the loan. He faid the cause of the rife in Jaft year's flocks was owing to Ld North's refignation, and the reason they had not fallen A now he was in, was, that the public was not fo much alarmed, as he had it not in his power to do so much mitchief as formerly. Ld North thought it ftrange reafoning, that his going out of office should raife the flocks, and that his coming into of Bfice fhould keep them up. He thought it a much fairer conclufion, that his coming into office fhould make them fall, and then the noble Lord was cerAstainly right in closing the bargain as be did. He faid, if ftocks had riten on his going cut, flocks had likewife rifen on the late miniftry's going out; confequently, both ought to make hands, and if there was any honour in rafing the flocks, he begged it might be divided. nefs of other bankers. If that was real- Mr. W. Pitt faid, he muft decline the invitation, becaufe the two cafes were very different. In the one cafe, flocks rofe when a ruinous adminiftration was at an end; in the other, ftocks rofe when the preliminaries of peace were negotiated. To the remark, that the peace and the loan were matters of hurry, and, if bad,, were the worfe for that circumflance; Mr. Pitt oblerved, that the hurry for the peace was on the fide of Coalition, who had formed the defign of feizEing upon government, not with thofe who were exerting themfelves to effect a pacification. Ld J. Cavendish affured the hon. Gent. Mr. Fox charged that as a rash exthat he had not the leaft intention of preflion, hazarded in heat. The late thus marking the houfe of which the hon. miniftry had been driven from their fa Gent. was a partner; but, difcourfing tion by a majority of that Houfe, as he with many different perfons of the fame hoped every miniftry would be who faprofeffion, he had heard a number of in- F crificed the honour and interest of their finuations thrown out by men jealous of country. each other, among which he had been told, that a houfe in which the name of Smith made a part of the firm, had ufed the loan as an inftrument of influencing customers; he had thought that a very improper mode of conduct, and had endeavoured, with refpect to the prefent Joan, to defeat it. But he had not till that moment known that the houfe in queftion had no fhare in the laft loan. It was clear, therefore, that he had been led by mistake to do a hurt which he could have no private motive for doing either one way or the other. Mr. Pitt declared, he never was cooler in his life than when he made u'e of the expreflion; at the fame time, he was ready to own, that, had it been applied to the adminiftration of the noble Lord in the blue ribbon, he fhould have been Gready to teftify his abhorrence of it. The two cafes could never be confidered in the fame point of view. La Mabon, in the courfe of the debate, in order to weaken the, force of the argument which miniftry had urged on the neceflity of borrowing at almost any rate Hto relieve the diftreffes of government, Mr. W. Pitt, Mr. Fox, Mr. Arden, Ldthought that might have been eluded by J. Cavendish, Mr. Smith, and others, dividing the loan, and borrowing juft fo went over the fame ground they had fo much as was wanted at the time, and delargely difcutled before; but little was fering the greater part till deliberately faid that was new. con confidered. To this obfervation, which was new, it was replied, that the fubfcribers were averfe to dividing the loan, they were for all or none appeared by hundreds, hovering over it, to fhare with the wolves and dogs in devouring the carcafes of the dead, and,, to the misfortune of the miferable, they' had alfo wolves and vultures in human Mr. Montague put an end to the deA bare by ap ealing to the Speaker, whe-hape, eager to devour them. He de ther this was not the first time he ever ploed the fate of a great princess, who, remembered to have heard the loan bill in another part of India, had been driven debated in a committee; and he was the from her palace with 2000 of her womore furprized, he faid, to hear it ftre- men, after the moft faithful of her fernuoufly oppofed by thofe who in a great vants had been cruelly put to death, to measure had been inftrumental in its feek for fhelter among her enemics. He being fo bad as it was. Bfpoke of immenfe fortunes acquired by individuals, while the Company was almost reduced to bankruptcy; and inflanced, in proof, the readiness with which Gov. Haftings fupplied 800,000l. for the purpofe of invefiments, that the Company's fhips might not return home in ballast. He laid it down as a maxim, Cthat the relief of the Company and its reform fhould go hand in hand; but, tho' a proprietor, did not approve of the divident. The bill was agreed to, and ordered to be reported. Ld Newhaven asked, for curiofity, how much money had been offered the noble Lord? who replied upwards of FIFTY MILLIONS; but half a million by fome who were known not to poffefs fo many fixpences, April 8. The report was brought up on the bill for empowering the E. I. Company, to borrow money and make a dividend of 4 per cent. (fee p. 736.) a much greater amount than their prefent neceflities required; and that they were far from a fate of infolvency, though at prefent in want of temporary relief. Sir H Fletcher stated the Company's affairs in a very different light. He faid Sir Cecil Wray, objected ftrongly to they had cargoes upon the f as to an imthat part of the bill that empowered the menfe amount; that they had been unCompany to divide 4 per cent. half-Dfortunate this year in the lofs of fhips to yearly upon their capital, when it was plain from the report under confideration that the Company wanted money to fupport their credit. He did not pretend to be matter of their affairs so far as to fay whether they were folvent or not; but, furely, if they were fo needy as to be obliged to borrow, they ought first to begin at home by faving the dividend. He thought the end of all government was for the good of the governed. But the government of the E. J. Company was the reverte. The governed were poor, and the governors rich. It behoved Parliament to enquire how they became fo. Mr. Burke went into an elaborate detail of the ftate of the Company. He faid, they carried on two diftin&t (pecies of proceedings; one of power, the other of commerc,; the former, he faid, was a lofing trade, and the latter lucrative; but the profits of the latter were nearly confumed in making good the loffes of the former. He charged Gov. Haftings as the grand delinquent, to whofe mefures, involving the Company in wars,, he afcribed all the calamities under which that country groaned. He defcribed the famine that at prefent ráges at Madrafs in the most pathetic terms, ftating that 200 perfons perifhed daily of hunger in that city; that vultures Gov. Johnflone oblerved, that the hon. Gent, who fpoke laft but one had a way of colouring things very high. In the excefs of his humanity, he had once feen the captive Loyalifts of Ld Cornwallis's army hanging on the trees along the coafts of Virginia, and yet not one of them was put to death. He hard at another time of dreadful cruelties exFerciled in an expedition under Gen. Grey in N. America, tho' he, who was in America at the fame time, had heard not a word about it. The famine he had now fo hyperbolically defcribed, was no other than the common effects of the Mahrattas war, who always carried devaftation wherever they marched. He withed moreover to hear particular charges, and not general infinuations. He defended Gov. Haflings, with whom, he faid, he had no private friendship; but, from the efforts he had made for the prefervation of our territories in India, he had determined to take a decided part in his favour. He was aftonished to hear the name of that gentleman treated fo ignominioufly in that Houfe. His having railed 800,000). for the Company's ufa in Calcutta was as cafy as for the Mi A. paff d. And the Houfe proceeded on The bill for taking up and imprifon ing fuch perfons as thould be tound in the night with pick-lock keys, or other implements for breaking into houses, was taken into confideration. nifter of this country to raise a million for Government in London, the opulence of one city bearing nearly an equal propor tion to that of the other. The hon. Gent. was always talking of the report that was to come from the felect committee; he wanted to fee the mighty giant come forth; if the hon. Member was the dwarf who appeared on the battlements of the Sir Cecil Wray objected to the bill in giant's caftle, he withed he would ftep toto, and moved that the Chairman do in and prevai' upon this mighty monfter B leave the chair. He could not think of to come forth to the combat.-He, for creating new crimes; he thought the his part, had no objection to low the criminal code by much too voluminous dividend for the prefent half year, or already. even to abolish it; but the clamour it would raife abroad, he thought, would give fuch a fhock to public credit, as the nation was in a very unfit ftate at pre-C fent to fuftain. Mr. Dempfer thought a dividend of 8 per cent. per ann, was too much under the prefent circumftances of the Company. He was for moving that the words four per cent. fhould be changed to three. Mr. Eden thought fome law abfolutely neceffary to check the increase of streetrobbers and houfe-breakers; and wifhed the Chairman to report progrefs, and afk leave to fit again; and, in the mean time, that gentlemen might come prepared to substitute others in the room of thofe claufes which appeared to them objec, tionable. Mr. Fox was of the fame opinion, and thought the bill might be amended. Mr. Martin difliked multiplying penal laws. It Parliament went on, it might be penal for a poor man to cary a knifeand fork in his pocket to eat his dinner. Sir Ch. Turner enlarged upon that idea, and was in pain for his poor countryman, who might be taken up and imprisoned, if the prefent bill paff dinto a law, for carrying his phlegm and picker in his pocket, for the benefit of bleeding and eafing his horfe. He declared he would vo e for the Chairman leaving the chair. Ld John Cavendish was of opinion with Mr. Burke, that the territorial do-D minions in India were rather a burden than benefit to the Company and the nation; but, as they have been made, they muft be kept; because, if they were not, they would not revert to the natives, their former poffeffors, but would fall into the hands of our natural enemies. If therefore the Company ftand in need of relief, it must be fupported. With regard to the dividend, if the want of it affected only those who have been the inftruments in bringing on the diftrefs, he should Mr. Burke thought if the Justices of think it a juft punishment for their want Peace in and about the Metropolis, who of economy; but as it would affect a had an abfolute authority over public very large body of widows and orphans, F houfes, (thole feminaries of vice and he feared it would fall too feverely, on fo corruption) were to exert their power for fhort a notice, on thofe who were quite the public good, one tenth of the crimes blameless and leaft able to bear it. He now committed in a mouth would not be therefore wished the words four per cent. heard of in a year. He was for reporting to stand. progrefs, and not wholly lofing the bill. Some other gentlemen fpoke for and against the report; but, the question being put, it paffed as originally moved. April 29. Mr. Eyre thought the laws in being flood in no need of addition. If a man Gfhould be found in his yard with implements for houfe-breaking, he should not now fcruple to indict him, and, if found guilty, the punishment would doubtlefs be fevere. Sec. at War [Col. Fitzpatrick] moved for leave to bring in a bill for repealing fuch acts of Parliament as were paised for temporary purposes, of enlifting foldiers for 3 years, or during the war. His object, he faid, was to bring back the foldiers engagements to the ufual term for life.H Sir Ch. Turner said, it was shocking to his mind that men fhould be inlifted for life. It was a bondage that ought not to be endured in a free country. No reply was made, the motion was put, and Mr. Howarth, as a professional man, thought the vagrant act could not reach fuch perfons as were intended to be made the objects of the prefent act. Housebreaking was now reduced to a science, and villains had invented inftruments for that purpose which no ordinary fastening could refift. It was therefore become equally neceffary for the fecurity of every man's pulled down on his feat by his friend Mr. Sheridan, left his warmth fhould betray him to fay fomething that might bring on him the cenfure of the Houte. man's houfe, that the having fuch inftruments in cuftody fhould be as penal as the having inftruments for coining in a man's cuftody, which by the prefent laws is death. He denied that a man Sir Edw. Afley fupported Mr. Marfound in a court-yard with inkruments tin, and with great vehemence faid, that for house-breaking about him, could be to restore perfons charged with crimes indicted, as the laws now ftand, unless A amounting to. public robbery was a in fome other refpect he came within the daring infult. meaning of the act 17 Geo. II. Hence he contended that fome additional law was neceffary. May 1. Mr. Fox endeavoured to foothe the Houfe into temper. It was poffible, he faid, for the laft Paymafter to have feea Ld Mahon, Mr. Sheridan, Mr. W. the fame conduct in a reprehenfible point Pitt, Mr. Selwyn, and others, were of of view; and for his hon. friend to have B opinion, that fome fuch law was necef- feen it altogether blamelefs; and confefary; and the question being put on the quently for the late Paymatter to have motion for leaving the chair, it patled in difmiffed them, and for the prefent to the negative. reftore them. But that his having done fo was "a daring infult to the public," was furely not only a very harsh exprefChion, but an affertion by no means true. His hon. friend, be faid, could never have been fo weak as to fuppofe that the act of reftoring thofe gentlemen would pass unnoticed, or that it would not call forth obfervation and provoke enquiry; he doubted not therefore that, when the proper time came, he would be able to juftify what he had done, and fatisfy the Houfe of the juftice of his proceeding Sir Cecil Wray moved for leave to bring in a bill to enable Sheriffs to remove prifoners from gaols, when repairs were neceffary, without fubjecting them to the penalties of refcues; and allo to empower juftices to raise money for fuch purposes, without waiting for prefentments. Gen. Smith thanked the Hon. Bart.D for his care, and inftanced a cafe in point where he himself was obliged to advance the money out of his own pocket for a like purpose. The motion paffed with out oppofition. The Houfe on Sir T. Rumbold's bufinefs. May 2. Ld Nerubaven brought on a converfation relative to Metfrs. Powell and Bembridge, in which Mr. W. Pitt juftified the difmifling thofe gentlemen. And Mr. Burke juftified their reftitution. But Ld J. Cavendish endeavoured to put an end to further altercation by declaring he knew nothing of either the one or the other; but he thought it extremely improper to continue a converfation of fo delicate a nature when there was no question relative to it before the Houfe, and when the perfons who were best able to fpeak upon the fubject (meaning Col. Barré and the Attorney General) were both abfent. Mr. Martin faid, that when he heard from the highest authority that two coafiderable clerks in office had been difmiffed for grofs behaviour, he could not help looking upon their restoration as a grofs and daring infult to the public. Mr. Burke, in a violent paffion, exclaimed, "It is a grofs and daring -," but could proceed no further, being Mr. Fr. Montagu role to order, and having reminded the Speaker that the whole converfation had been diforderly. called upon him to enforce the orders of Ethe Houfe. The Speaker thanked Mr. Montagu re-capitulated the origin, turn, and tenor of the converfation, and defired it might drop. Mr. Kenyon was defirous of being heard in explanation of his own conduct; F but was ftopped by the Speaker. G Mr. Martin role too. He blamed the restoration without giving any reafon for it. Many others were delirous of speaking, but after much trouble to the Speaker were at length prevailed upon to fit down. Ld Adv. complained of the non-attendance of Members whenever the bill of pains and penalties became the fubject of difcuflion. If it was the intention of the Houfe to drop it, he wished to be made acquainted with that circumftance, and then he would not move another hearing on the fubject. Mr. Fox declared that to drop the bill would be productive of the moft fatal confequences, for it would convince the world that the most atrocious misconduct in India would meet with impunity from an English Parliament; and therefore |