survive. There was one other clause in would cover all the advantages that ever the said Bill which he could not help ob. would be reaped from it by this Country. jecting to, and that was, where the Ame- The objections he had to offer, on a curricans, now become a foreign State, are A fory review of it, he should referve rill admitted to all the privileges of British it came into the committee. But he hoped subjects. How was the King hereafter it would never come there :ill some person to make treaties with the European Pow- in a long gown could be found to adopc ers who claim to be treated as the ic as his, and bring with himn some moit favoured pations? Or was Parlia- coadjutors who would consent to stand meat prepared to consent to the admis- sponsors. fion of all the world as British subjects ? Chanc. Pitt thought it not a little sur He added, that all that had been named B prifing, that a Bill that bad been loudly were trifling to what were still to be and repeatedly called for from every part apprehended. It had been easy to fore- of the House, should be rejected before it see that American Independence must came in committee. The Hon. Gent. that tend to great convulsions in our com- spoke last, who on all occasions is ready merce, the emigration of manufacturers, to give his opinion on the politics of the the loss of leamen, and all the evils in times, had called for some Member to cident to a declining country. The be responsible for the Bill. But did noc, hour of calamity was now come. The c the Hon. Gent. knothat, when a Bill had United States must have infinite advan once passed into a law, the Hon. Gent. tages, from which our European traders was himself as responsible for the opeand loyal Colonies must for ever be ex- ration of it as the Minister that brought cluded. From their proximity of situation, it in? Where ihe urgency of affairs cheapness of labour, and frequency of made a new law neceilary, it was the rovages, they must in a course of years_dury v Miniliers to take proper inpoilets themselves of the carrying trade.Dformation, and to bring in a Bill adapted Thus the kingdom must gradually lose to the nature of the exigency. He had its great nursery of seainen, and all the done so; and it rested in the House to means of manning ships in times of emer- adopt or reject, to alter, amend, or mogency, and thus decline and languith dify it, according as the House should see during peace, and be helpless and de- fit. For himself, he was little tenacious pendent during war. He observed, that of the clauses in the Bill. Such a Bill if so many objections were obvious to a was wanting, and it rested now whoily mere individual, it might be presumed E with the House to supply it. that there were many more that would Mr. Burke placed all the mischiefs that not escape the penetration of millions had happened or could happen from the interested in using this Bill against all want of such a Bill on the Moulders of the nearest and dearest concerns of these Ministers, who, during a seven months Kingdoms. And now, he said, having negociation with the American Commisfatid some objections to the Bill, it fioners, had never laid a word about might be expected that he dould sug regulating commerce. To this the get tome better plan for opening the present embarrailments were owing. intercourse. To that he profetfed himself When it was understood that Mr. une qual. But itill, if he might hazard Oswald was chosen as a negociator, an opinion, it would be merely that the every one concluded, that it was for a Prohibitory Aas should be repealed; and { ftematical establishment of commerce. that the King in Council might be vested Nobody could have imagined that, when with power tor fix months, to suspend the noble Lord then at the head of Adfrom uime to time, as he should scec ministration had the most experienced caule

, such laws as should be found geographers in Europe at hand, means to stand in the way of an amicable inter- ing Mr. Holdsworth, Member for Dart. course. This would obviate every ob- mouth, and Mr. Brett, he would have je&tion respecting Ireland ; the negocie pitcired upon a merchant to conclude a ation might in the mean time go on; geographical treaty. The two negociand a reciprocity of advantages might ators having palled seven months without be made the ground-work of a pirma-, having done any thing for commerce, Dent treaty in the end.

H put him in mind of iwo Irishmen; one C.pr.). Luttrell was so fully per- of them being asked what he was doing, suaucer of th: inuvility of the Bill, that, answered, nothing; the other, being alked it it palicu in the way it was now offered, the same question, exclaimed, I am help. the theet which contained the clauses ing bim. A Right lion. Gentleman,


who had displayed an uncommon degree rendered ie necessary that it should go to of commercial' knowledge (Mr Eden), a Committee. He was for introducing was afraid that we should lose our ma as little new law as pothole into the nufactures by the emigration of our Bill. artificers, and the exportation of our Mr. Hamet was partly of the same working tools; as to the latter, it was opinion. He made a great difference beone of the puerilities of our laws to for- , tiveen repealing old useless laws, and bid the exportation of manufacturing A fiaming new ones. He disapproved of tools. We might as well attempt to motions in that house relative to the prevent the making of hay in America trade with America, as he was of opiby forbidding the exportation of lovthes. nion the regulations necessary to be With respečt to the emigration of our made were rather subjects of private artificers, he could see no pollible way to negociation, on the footing of reciprocal known, that more than 8000 perfons em Belo confiages, than of public and general

He had been in America, grated annually from the North of Ire- ke faid, and was certain that by wise land, and yet there' never was a linen measures we might recover our trade, manufactory fet up in America. The and advantages equal to those of the times reason was obvious. The chitapness of when we were fellow-fulijeets, without land made every one a freeholder'; and the expence attending their being a part none thought of labour whą went withic of the fame empire. the view of commencing gentlemen. It The Lord Mayor urged the necessity would be long, very long indeed, be- of opening the trade in some shape or fore America would think of rivalling other speedily, or losing it for ever us in manufactures. He differed with The House then resolved itself into a the fame Hon. Gentleman in other re Committee on the Bill, and proceeded fpets, and was not for treating Ame to examine the claufes; to every one rican subjects as aliens, but rather as D of which, obje&tions were started. fellow sulijects as far as we could'; and Capt. Lutrrell exprefled a with that lie would rather establish his regulations the Committee might adjourn, report by an inprorement of the old cominer progress, and beg leave to sit again, ciał fyftem, than' by introducing a new which was complied with. He would have' all Prohibitory

March 10. Acts repealed, and leave the American Lord Newbaven moved, that there be vessels in all respects as they were before Elaid before the House copies of the last in point of trade.

difparchies from Sir Guy Carleton, relaSol Gen. (Arden) did'not think, when tire to the state of negociation between he was called into his Majesty's fervice, him and the Congress, on the subject of that he was to“take upon him refponfi ihe Loyalists; but being told, by Mr. bility for coinmercial systems with which Ord, how iinproper it would be to agihe was totally unacquainted. All the tate such a question when there was no concern he had in framing the Bill was, F Minister, he withdrew his inotion for in adapting such principles as were sug- the present. And the order of the day, gested to him, to the law as it stood in for the House to go into a committee of the various statures that had relation to supply, bcing read, and a motion made the object of the Bill. He had been fully for the Speaker to leave the chair, aware of the danger of throwing the Mr. Huloy rose, to enquire into the carrying trade into the hands of Ame: truth of a report current without duors, rica ;* and it would be found, that tho'Gthat the Cathier and Accomptant of the America had an advantage given lier by Pay-Office had been demiiled in consethe Bill on her importacions, the hai quence of some discoveries made by the that advantage balanced by the impofts Board of Treasury to the Pay-master jaid on her exports.

Hé thewed the General. If the fact was true, he begurter impoflibility of preventing the ged to know if the minutes of the Board Americans from trading to the Westo of Treasury might not with propriety be Indies, and the tolly of endeavour-H laid before the House. ing to ingross a trade, which by its Chanc. Pitt frankly owned that the fact magnitude was too unweildy to be con was as lared, and ibat he had not the fined.

least objection whatever against laying Mr. Fox thought the bill an intrac the minutes in quction before the tion of our treaty with Russia, and Houle. pointed out many impafections which Mr. Hideg was going to make a mo


tion for the purpose, when the Speaker the climates laid before Parliament. reminded him that there was already a Mr. Courtney allowed the report to be motion before the House, which must be drawn up in a masterly manner; he acfirst dismissed.

knowledged likewise that the vigilance, The House accordingly went into a perfeverance, and activity of the noble

А e committee, to which a report was re Duke, in watching public officers and ferred, ligaed “ Richmond;" a part of Ministers too, deserved great praile; which, so far as relates to the estimate in but at the same timc maintained, that the question, is here added by way of note*. report wanted two requisites, fairness

Mr. Kenrick then rose, and delired, and candourt, to inake it compleat. He before the Speaker left the chair, to make then entered into an examination of the a few observations on the report of the - several articles in which savings had Board of Ordnance. Mr. Kenrick ac. B been made, and accounted for them, if cordingly went into a train of reasoning not to the fatisfaction of the House, yec tending to justify the measures of the in a plaufille train of reasoning which it. preceding board, though no charge was not easy to refute. The noble Duke whatever had been brought against it. and the noble Lord [Townshend] who

Capt. Minchin, on the contrary, was preceded him had each, he said, acted very fevere on the lucrative contracts according to the circumstances of the made by that board; and was lavish in times; the latter therefore had been unpraises of the noble Duke, who had fet a Cder the neceflity of treating for the artipattern which ought to be followed in all cles he wanted, in tinc of war, at the war

prices; while the former was enabled by " In this report it is earneltly hoped that the conclufion of the war to make better provifion will be made for dilcharging, in

terms, and to purchase at peace prices. If fome certain period, the debt of the ord. aance. Wheo that is done, all future bar- the noble Duke the predecessor at the

the noble Lord had been the succellor and gains may be made with ready money, which has been found by experience to pro D Board, the contracts would in all probadece, in many inttances, a faving of from bility have been nearly the fame as the 20 to 30 per cent. in the following articles :

House had found them; and as there was Savings made under the Disadvantages of the no merit in having made peace contracts in prefent mode of Payment.

time of peace, there could be no demeric The new contract for horses, reduced in having made war contracts, in time of from is.gd. to is.per day per horse. war, at war prices.

Copper hoops reduced from 1351. 6s. 8d, to 1021. per ton. Shot from 1l 1 s. to rol. 65. per ton.


+ To prove that the Hon. Gent, did not

affert this without some ground to bear him March from 231.10 161 55. perton.

ou:, he infanced the price of powder barrels Powder barrels, whole, from

38. gd. to

(reduced as itated in the report, from 35. 9d. 38. ed. each.

to 3s. 2d. each)-but did the report state that Ditto half, from 2s.6d. to 25. 2d. each.

the barrels for which the noble Ld paid 35.9d. Porbeck stone from 105. 9d. to 1os. 3d.

were made of oak, and ibore for which per ton; to be paid in fix months.

the nuble Duke paid 35. 2d. were of beech! Sand bags bulhel, froin 80.4 to 7d each. F He was sure the noble Duke bad not funk Small arms (Dutch) from il. 75. 6d. to

this imall piece of information from any dc. ul. 15. each; to be paid in six months. lign of throwing blame on his noble prede.

Brass-work for muskers from Is. 2d. to ceilor in office, but that it arose merely from Is. d. each per !b.

accident. He instanced in another article, Wheel-barrows from 145. to 11s. 6d. each.

that of sale.petre. The report flated that Hand-barrows from 45. 10 35. 3d.

sali.petre had been reduced from usli to Iron spades from 11. 16s. to 1). 138. per Ghighest price ever given by the late board, on

521. 775. per ton; that is to say, that to the dozea. Salt petre from 11sl. t» 721. 75. per 101.

an extraordinary occafion was opposed the Shells, 13 and 10 inches, from 131. 155.10

low: A price that had been given by the noble !21. 6s. per doz.

Duke. The same principle of deduction beu Ditro 8 inch from 141. to 127. 6s. per doz. ing observed in all the other articles, Mr.

Ditto 4, 2-5ths from 173. 6d. to 145. 6d. Courtney remarked, the House would find per cwt.

that the dark charge, obliquely conveyed by The savings on the above articles, fash the report agunt the late Master Gen. of the report, mult depend on their demand; the Ordnance, of having wancovly spent, for and, according to that of the last three years, thc lait three years, 95,0col, of the public would have a mounted on

an average to money, which he might have saved 'with951380l. annually."

out cramping the service, would vanish in Signed, RICHMOND. Imoke. GENT. MAG July, 1783.


Ms. Pelham said, there was no cenfure mate, and having reduced the articles wha'ever intended against the late Malter much nearer 10 correctness than ever of Ile Ordinance, by the manner in which was known before, it was a matter of the estimates were stated. If they were course to contralt his own mode with contrasted with those which had preceded Athat of the old mode, in order to thew them, it was merely by way of account. the superiority of the one over the other ; ing for what the noble Duke had done but iliat surely did not necessarily imply during the time he had been in office. a cenfure on those who had fullowed the He m:ant no reflection whatever ; bur, old mode. The whole conversacion, the in order to prove to the public that he General contended, had been disorderly, served them to the best of his ability, it p and, as was generally the case in all dirwas necessary to draw a line between his Borderly proceedings, much had been laid conduct, and that of the noble Lord that ought not to have been said before, whom he succeeded.

The lloule were in committee. Mr. Adam said, the note annexed Lord Norib juftified the old board for to the report certainly conveyed a cen having gone into their defence; but as it sure upon the late Board of Ordnance, was now seen there were many mistakes as far as it depended upon the ordinarv in the report, and generally understood construction of the wording it; but as it Cthat no blame was intended, he did not had been declared that there was no in see the neceflity of proceeding in their tention in the noble Duke, whose name defencr, as every shadow of blame was was subscribed to the report, to suggest done away. any such ublique censure, certainly all Mr. Hujey wondered how Lord North thé arguments that had relted on that could allert that every shadow of blame idea were done away. With respect to was done away.

The Salt-petre

contract the mode of making out the present esti was more than a shadow (fee vol. LII. mate in a new and more satisfactory form D p. 364); which, had it not been noticed than had been heretofore the practice, he in that House, would have put near thought the noble Duke entitled to great 20,000l. of the public's money into praile; but as to the merit of making fomebody's pocket who had no right to contracts on cheaper terms than his pre- it, at the saine time that the E. I. C, who deceffor, he could not see much in it, had the right, were forced to go without for, considering the different circumftan what was juilly'due to them. ces under which the former contracts had


The quellion of order (noticed by been made, there was ng ground for Gen. Conway) caine now to be discussed; saying, that the former board had been when reinils in their duty, or inattentive to Sir Grey Cooper observed, that it was chusc conceirs of the public with which not poilinie to reduce the prefent ques. they were entrusted.

tion to any known rule of proceeding, Gen. Conway thought the whole of becaule the report accompanying the estia the debate disorderls. The motion was, mare made the cale a new one. that the Speaker do leave the chair, ş port had not been called for by the abour' which not a word had been taid. House; and had it not been ipoken to He thought it a little extraordinary for now, it would have been imposible to those who had the direélion of ihu lali have spoken to it with lo much propriety board of Ordnance to set up a defence at any othur time. The question for the where there was no accusations for he Speaker leaving the chair was now called proleifid he could not fee an iota of for, and carried. charye against any one of them. It had The House resolved itself into a Comon ai! hands been acknowledged thatGmittee of Supply, and Mr. Stüele proceeded! the nolle Duke liad, with great ability, to explain the articles in the estimate. industry, and unquchionable integrity,

March 11. produced a eons lerable reform in the The Report from the Committee of mode of doing the busineis of the Ord- Supply on the Ordnance estimates was nauce board, Why then Mhould that good brought up. work be depreciated by attributing un Mr. Roje warne objećied to it, on the wortly motives to the noble author of ii? ground of extravagance; from the ruined The noble Duke, he was persuaded, H flate of our finances it migiit naturally would didain to raise his own menit by have been expected that a great reduction an attempt to charge others with a con of our militarv etablithments would have due lors laudable. Haviny altered the taken place; in cad of that, expences Bude of preparing the Ordnance Eitia are multiplied. Works for the defence


The re

of our dock-yards are set on foot that are coarse with America; he produced the pot to be completed in lets than ten heads of a treatv calculated to lead to years. If neceilary, why not in 12 months ? the establishment of such commercial He was for re-cuinmiting the ettimares. regulations betwecn Great Britain and Sir Cecil Wray cat his eve on the elli the United States, as should add to the

A mate for the annual expence of Gibralcar, interests of both. He concluded with and wilhed that fortref, had been barter: moving that the Speaker du now leave ed for a proper equivalent.

the Chair. Mr. G. Onslow wilhed the same, and Capt. 7. Luttrell rose to oppose it. shewed to demonftration, that it was not Though he knew, he said, he Thould sworth the keeping.

again risk the displeasure of a Right Mr. Burke oblerved, that it had been Hon. Gent. [Mr. W. Pitt), he could generally agreed on both sides, that tho'b not help mixing with the politics of the There was great praise due to the Dhe times, and the racher as he was now of Richmond for having reformcd the given to understand, that he was to be Office of Ordnance and introduced a new alike responsible, for the operation of mode of stating the estimates, there was the bill 'bcivre 'the Hoare, with the 10 intention, hy the prelent report, to Right Hon. Gent. who brought it in; caft the least reflection on the conduit of a piece of information to which he was his noble predeccilor (Lord Town an utter stranger, when he was accuffhend], whose abilities qualified him to C tomed to hear one set of men blamed fill any public situation with as much for patronising a Tea A, another for dignity as his many private virtues entitled Explanatory Aals, a third for Prohinitory him to the esteen of all who knew him. Bills, and others for Bills for confiscating He added, at the same time, that if there American property ; and he must surely was a man in the kingdom, particularly have dreamt of censures, pains, and peo calculated to root out a bad system of nalties, impeachments against Ministers, official conduct, and to introduce a new &c. if every Member in that House and more useful plan of proceeding, it Dwas alike responsible for Ads of Parwas the D. of Richmond, whose natural liament. He was glad, however, to find industry, whose disdain of inglorious it admitted by the general acquiescence case, and whose zealous attachment to of the House, that the responlibility for the principles of public a conomv, mark- the effect of every Act of Parliament td and distinguished his character in an was in the Legislature, and not in the eminent degree. In the course of his Minister. It was a record he mould speech, Mr. B. was pleasant, in compar. preserve for life. It was a record that ing the merits of the two Masters General E should prevent him from giving his sancof the Ordnance with those of the two lion to a Bill which he could not apa Veftris (celebrated dancers j, and in this, prove; a Bill by which the dignity of though he might be thoughtto depart Parliament and the wealth of the Kinga from the dignity of the Senator, he Itill dom migh tbe risked without a motive, preserved the air of the courtier; for as the King and his Council had al'none but thenselves, he said, could be ready a power to open the trade with their parallel.

He differed from Sir America, and to hold fortli advantages Cecil Wray, anit dwelt foine time on the F to those Staics which it would be ima importance of Gibraltar. He expressed proper to establish by any Bill. The bis disapprobation of our land fortifica- trade by this means might be opened totions, wishing rather to confine our at morrow, and ought to have ben opened tention to our Roaring bulwarks, on long ago. He thought this the latest which the security of this kingdom must and most advisable way, as proceeding ultimately depend. He concluded with by the Bill now before the House would voting for receiving the report, having a require the reflection of an age to make thorough confidence in the p:elent Git passable. -Master General of the Ordnance. On Mr. Eden observed, that the Hon. the question being put, the ages had it. Gentleman's reasons for the Speaker's

The order of the clay was then read not leaving the Chair, were not such as for the House to go into Comınittee, on wholly coincided with his idea, though the American Trade Bill.

they approached very near it. The Mr. D. Hartley role, and after re- King had certainly no power vested in minding the House that it was now full him, by the Act alluded io, to levy dufive weeks fince he made a motia for ties on the imports to be made in Ameleave to bring in a Bill to repeal the Pro rican thips; and, if the trade was to prohibitory Acts, and to open an intera ceed, subject to no burdens, it would


« ElőzőTovább »