Report, 1888-continued. Hansard, Thomas Curzon. (Analysis of his Evidence)- continued. Excessive length of the reports if published verbatim; calculated increase of bulk by - Considerable increase of cost necessitated by a more prompt completion and delivery Details of the proposed arrangements whereby revision by Members might be facili- Employment by witness of a regular staff of five shorthand writers, one seat being Amount of diminution expected in the bulk of the debates through the new Rule as Explanation in connection with a scheme of witness for rapid and full reports, at an Grounds for the conclusion that a full and accurate report is far preferable to a ver- Tendency to increased expenditure although the debates are shortened, 150-156— Staff of five regular reporters employed by witness; doubt whether they report for Examination as to the data upon which he calculates that he should receive from 400 l. Explanations with further reference to the action of witness and his staff as regards House of Commons. Amount of diminution expected in the bulk of the debates through Great facility to the rapid production of reports since the restriction of the hours for See House of Lords. Improvement within the last few years in the reporting for the House of Lords, though further improvement is still needed, Duke of Buckingham 671-673—Creation of Hansard's reports as regards the House of Lords by collecting from the newspaper reports; inadequacy chiefly in respect of Private Bill legislation and Proceedings in Committee, ib. 674-678. 684-688, 691. Approval of a semi-official report of proceedings in the House of Lords, though if Mr. Hansard's system be retained it should be enlarged and improved so as to meet the necessities of the present day, Duke of Buckingham 686-691. 699. Less complete provision made by Mr. Hansard for reporting the proceedings in the House of Lords than in the House of Commons, Rep. iii. Inaccurate Reports. Instance of injurious effect upon the public interests through the inaccurate report of a speech of Lord Salisbury; avoidance of this if there had been an official report, Lord Halsbury 317-319. 339-340. 409, 410. Italy. Delay in the issue of the reports in Rome on account of the facilities allowed for revision, Salter 956, 957. Information respecting the system of Parliamentary reporting in Italy, The Speaker 1014. 1016-Great complaints which used to be made of the Press reports in Italy; issue of the official Gazette, containing a complete revised report three or four days after the speeches are delivered, ib. 1016. L. Leycester, William. (Analysis of his Evidence.)-Witness has charge of the reporting staff of "The Times" in the House of Commons, and superintends the writing out and furnishing of the reports to the paper, 414-416. Discretion exercised by the reporters, subject to directions from witness, as to the length at which individual speeches are taken down, 418-428. 480. 511--517-Fuli notes (though not actually verbatim) always taken by sme reporters, whilst others only take so much as they have afterwards to write out before being sent or telephoned to "The Times" office for press, 426-428. 518-536-Practice as to each man writing out his own notes in the room appropriated for the purpose; facility in this respect if the notes are restricted to what is intended to be written out, 426-428. 518-536. Rapidity with which the reports are sent to press; short turns, or frequent changes of reporters, so as to facilitate the notes being promptly written out for this purpose, 42843. 435-440-Necessity of a considerable increase of the reporting staff of "The Times" if employed to make verbatim reports of all the proceedings; doubt as to the manager being willing to undertake the responsibility of supplying an official report, 432444.490-496. 52v- Short turns necessary if a verbatim report be required by eight o'clock the next morning; contemplated changes every quarter of an hour, or less, 431440. 453-455. Satisfactory acoustic properties of the House of Commons as compared with the House of Lords; that is, so far as the reporters in the gallery of each House are concerned, 445-452-Great increase in the Parliamentary reports in "The Times" if they were given verbatim; very exceptional instances of verbatim reports of all the speeches, 4564611- Correction by the reporter of obvious blunders on the part of speakers, 462-466. 505 -Occasional correction by Members after publication; that is, for insertion in the weekly edition, 466-472. Convenience to the newspaper reporters if there were an official reporter at the Table to whom they might refer when in doubt as to the accuracy of the notes, 473-479Feasibility of an arrangement with "The Times" or some other paper for supplying reports similar to, or fuller than, those furnished by Mr. Hansard, in the event of his not being desirous to go on with them, 481-500-Full extent to which the answers of Ministers are given in "The Times," as well as the questions, 485-488-Limited extent to which discussions in Committee are professed to be given in "The Times," 489 Number of reporters employed by Mr. Hansard in the House of Commons, there being none in the House of Lords, 501-504-Very little correction applied by "The Times Report, 1888-continued. Leycester, William. (Analysis of his Evidence)-continued. reporters to such speeches as those of Mr. Gladstone or Mr. Bright, 506-510-Full space provided in the paper for the speeches as furnished through witness, the practice being to report speakers on each side of the House without partiality, 511-517. [Second Examination.] Explanation that witness interferes whenever he considers that a reporter is not taking a sufficiently full note of any speech, but that as a general rule the discretion of the latter is satisfactorily exercised and can be depended upon, 705-731- More cicar type used for some speeches than for others, this matter resting with the editor, 708. 732, 733. Supervision exercised by witness over" The Times"" staff in the House of Lords (as well as in the House of Commons); discretion exercised in his absence by the reporters whilst they sometimes send to him in the Gallery of the latter House for instructions, 710-712.717-723-Very rare instances of the editor giving directions as to the length at which speeches are to be taken down; full space provided for the reports as sent from either House, 713-716. 73+-736. Very short period after the rising of the House of Commons within which witness could supply a full report, nearly verbatim, of all the speeches; large increase of staff and of cost necessary, whilst "The Times" is not anxious to undertake the work, 737-749.776-788-Objection to a verbatim report, it being expedient to exclude mere repetitions, 745, 746. 785-788-- Due consideration shown to Irish Members as regards the fulness of the reports, 747-756. 767-769-Full report, as a rule, of the Front Bench, 757, 758. Explanation that witness never discourages full notes being taken, 763-766— State ment as to Members for provincial towns being reported more fully in the local papers than in "The Times," whilst some country Members are but little noticed; employment in the former case of the reporters for the Press Agencies, 769-775-789800. M. Moore, John. (Analysis of his Evidence.)-Long experience of witness in connection with Parliamentary reporting, as one of the corps of the Press As-ociation, and in other capacities, 1286-1291. Willingness of witness to contract for the supply of an official report of the proceedings in Parliament for publication next morning at the rate of 8 d. per folio of seventytwo words; calculation that on the average of the last six years the cost to Government would be 3,950 l. a year, 1292-1294. 1300. 1328-1339-Information as to the number of reporters or shorthand writers proposed to be employed, and the salaries to be paid; very competent men to be engaged, 293, 294. 1335-1357. 1389. Importance of the reporters being seated on the floor of the House of Commons instead of in the Gallery, on account of the talking which goes on in the latter and the greater difficulty of hearing than on the floor of the House, 1295. 1305-1327. 1371-1388. 1390-1396 Explanation that witness' proposal is limited to the production of the anscript for the printers, and has nothing to do with the printing or publication; it would cover corrections by Members (if allowed) and editing, 1296-1304. 13611370. Expediency of the proposed reporters having a prominent and recognised position, and being secured against arbitrary dismissal, 1351-1354. 1358-1360--Suggestion that an official report might be produced by a staff of three reporters with 400 l. a year each, with ten men under them with 300 l. a year; anxiety of good mer to undertake the work ou these conditions, 1354-1358. 1371, 1372-Proposal as to the best place on the floor of the House of Commons for seating reporters and as to the accommodation otherwise to be provided for them, 1373-1387-Objection to the reporters being placed underneath the floor, 1394-1396. N. Newspaper Reports. Strong disapproval of the present system of Parliamentary Reports as regards the practice of revision and of collating from newspsper reports, Hunsard 107-110. 165-168. 186-Curtailment of the newspaper reports in recent years, whilst witness' reports have been lengthened, ib. 162-164. Improbability of the newspaper reports being in any way diminished or set aside by an official report, Lord Halsbury 297-299. Convenience Newspaper Reports-continued. Report, 1888-continued. Convenience to the newspaper reporters if there were an official reporter at the Table to whom they might refer when in doubt as to accuracy of the notes, Leycester 473-479. Doubt as to the full report in some newspapers being interfered with by a system of semi-official reports, Salter 931-933-Difficulty in the newspapers making use of the transcripts under an official system, as a means of improving their reports, ib. 944, 945. Gradual curtailment of the newspaper reports of proceedings in Parliament on account of the increasing pressure of advertisements and other matters; great importance for this reason of an official and full report, Saunders 1109-1121. 1202–1205. See also Accommodation for Reporters. Hansard's Debates. "Times, The." 0. OFFICIAL OR VERBATIM REPORT: Former opinion of witness in favour of an Official Report of the Proceedings in Parliament; entire change of this opinion in view of the changed view of the debates, so that he now considers an official and verbatim report would cause constant recriminations among Members and would not conduce to the convenience of the public, Hansard 16, 17. 26-35Excessive length of the reports, if published verbatim; calculated increase of bulk by thirty per cent. over and above the number of volumes produced by witness, ib. 26-30. 132-Grounds for the conclusion that a full and accurate report is far preferable to a verbatim report; exceptional instances of verbatim reporting at the present time, ib. 111-132. 261. 219. Reluctance of witness to offer any opinion for or against an Official Report, Pigott 236. 270-Belief that if a verbatim report be wanted the Treasury could provide it directly, more reasonably than through a middleman, ib. 266-268. Views of witness strongly in favour of an official and verbatim report of the Debates and Proceedings in Parliamen, Lord Halsbury 275-279. -Preference for a verbatim report, notwithstanding its bulk, as compared with a seini-official system, as an amplification of Mr. Hansard's reports, ib. 280-282-Difficulty as to obtaining full verbatim reports in all cases through the agency of the newspapers; undue bulk thereby, ib. 293. 327-329- Salutary check upon speeches in both Houses if officially reported verbatim without being subject to revision, ib. 294, 295. Limited demand of the public for an Official Report, and limited sale thereof in the sense of any material reduction thereby in the cost, Lord Halsbury 299 ---Improbability of disputes or mischief being caused in the event of the newspaper reports which would be first published not agreeing with an official report, ib. 320-323. 336. 339 Doubt as to the cost of a verbatim report being so large as to counterbalance the benefit, ib. 324–326. 403-Approval of speeches in Parliament being reported as delivered, including any defects of grammar, &c.; occasional instances of verbatim reports, as in the case of Mr. Gladstone, ib. 342-347. 351-356. Unequal importance of different portions of the proceedings in Parliament, so that witness considers it is not necessary nor expedient to have an official and full report of everything that takes place, but only of certain parts of the work, Courtney 538-540. 538-585-Expediency of a full record of the questions addressed to Members and of the answers thereto, ib. 539. 565. 592. 666—Value attached also to an official and accurate record of the declarations of Ministers as contained in their speeches, ib. 539. 569-572. 593. 604, 605. 665-Approval also of a full report of the speeches of the more responsible Members of the Opposition, ib. 539. 594, 595. 646-649 -Advantage also of an official record upon questions of order, ib. 539. 669, 670. Large number of speeches in respect of which it is not necessary that there should be an authentic verbatim report; enormous accumulation of matter in course of years without any corresponding advantage if there were an official and full report of all the proceedings, Courtney 539-548. 556. 579-585, 607 et seq.--Very little commercial demand expected for a verbatim report; doubt as to any effect upon the reporting for the newspapers, ib. 542-548. Question considered as to the historical value of official verbatim reports; conclusion that on this score they are not essential, Courtney 607-627--Consideration of the data by which under an official system reporters should be guided in giving speeches in full or in part; supervision to be exercised on this point by means of a Committee, ib. 628-645. Necessity of an official report being verbatim, or of time being allowed for correction; objection in either case as compared with the present system, Duke of Buckingham, 680-683. 697-699. Report, 1888-continued. OFFICIAL OR VERBATIM REPORT-Continued. Disapproval of a verbatim report, it being expedient to exclude mere repetitions, Leycester 745, 746. 785-788. Suggestions as to any questions at issue between a speaker in Parliament and the official reporter being referred to an officer of the House or to a Committee, Salter 917922-Important distinction between an official report and a newspaper report, the former being a faithful and important record irrespectively of what use may be afterwards made of it, whilst the latter is produced in view of its being read by the public; testimony, however, to the excellence of the newspaper reports, ib. 965–996. Decided preference for a modification of the present system of Hansard's reports as compared with a system of verbatim reports, for which some official person would be responsible, The Speaker 1006-1011. 1026, 1027. 1053, 1054-Inordinate length and bulk of verbatim reports without any corresponding advantage to the public service, ib. 1011. 1026, 1027--Necessary lapse of about three days before the issue of an official verbatim report, revised by Members who had made speeches, i. 1017–1925. Contemplated control of an official report by a Committee of the House (such as the Printing Committee); decided objection to any complaints by Members being brought before the House, as in the form of questions to Ministers, The Speaker 1059–1062. 1068, 1069. 1081-1089--Means of obtaining verbatim reports through Messrs. Gurney's shorthand writers; witness, however, sees no advantage in a fuller system than the present one, ib. 1070. Statement by Mr. Pigott as to former Committees having decided against an official report, App. 153. Advantage of a system of official reports as securing a complete and accurate record of Parliamentary debates which might be of historical value and interest, Rep. iii—Conclusion of the Committee that an official report must be verbatim, and, except as to gross grammatical errors, uncorrected, ib.-Necessarily large bulk of an official report, whilst the demand for it would be limited, and a heavy expenditure of public money would be entailed, ib. iv. The Committee Opinion that, on the whole, the advantages to be derived from such a report would not be commensurate with the labour and expense involved, Rep. iv do no, therefore, recommend that an official report be provided, ib. See also Accommodation for Reporters. Contract. Cost. Gurney & Co. Hansard's Debates. Reporters and Responsibility. Standing Committee. "Times" Reports. Foreign Countries. Shorthand Writers. P. Paper. Suggestions by Mr. Pigott as to the paper to be used for the reports, if tenders be invited, App. 156. Peel, The Right Hon. Arthur. Se Speaker, The. Pigott, T. Digby. (Analysis of his Evidence.)-Very indirect way in which the Stationery Office are concerned in the system of reporting the debates in Parliament; the Department had nothing to do with the arrangement with Mr. Hansard, 230-233—-Inquiry made by the Stationery Office as to the possibility of providing at a cheaper rate what the House required; conclusion that a certain alternative proposed by Mr. Hansard at a cost of 20,540 l. a year could be carried out directly by Government for half that amount, 234-246. 249. 266-269-- Reluctance of witness to offer any opinion for or against an official report, 236. 270. Several alternative modes of providing reports of the Debates and Proceedings in Parliament; usefulness of newspaper reporters for the purpose, 247-249. 251-255Suggestion that the Stationery Office should be furnished with precise details of what is required, so that witness may have proper data upon which to supply an estimate of the cost for which the work could be undertaken by Government, 256. 265. 269. 271. Proposal that a fair price for the work being ascertained, the refusal of the contract might be given to Mr. Hansard upon reasonable terms, but that if public competition be decided upon the contract should be put up without any upset price, 257-265Belief that if a verbatim report be wanted the Treasury could provide it directly more reasonably than through a middleman, 266-268. Inference as to the present grant-in-aid to Mr. Hansard being too much since the new rule limiting the debates to half-an-hour after midnight, 272-Impression that the usual payment of reporters is at the rate of a guinea a night, 273, 274. Statement submitted by Mr. Pigott on the part of the Stationery Office, dated 7th April 1888, with reference to the arrangements in the case of Ross's Record" and "Hansard's Debates," together with suggestions on the subject of an improved report, and of the alternative plans that might be adopted, App. 151-153. Private |