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make such alterations as appeared to the
authorities of the University proper to carry
into effect. After the work had been com-
pleted, if it did not appear to their Lord-
ships to have been executed in a satisfac-
tory manner they could express such an
opinion and adopt such a course as might
seem most proper to their Lordships, but
it was not fitting for any Members of that
House, and particularly by a vote, to inter-
fere with measures which the House of
Convocation had under consideration.
With respect to the colleges, he had received
accounts from several of them that they were
reviewing their statutes. Several of the col-
leges were in communication with their re-
spective visitors, and others were in commu-
nication with the fellows of the college with
whom they must communicate in order to
make effectual reforms in their statutes.
They were going on as well as they could
at the present moment, and he entreated
their Lordships to let them work out those
reforms as they thought fit, and if they
were not executed in accordance with their
Lordships' wishes, it would then be time
for that House to take such steps as might
seem necessary.

The Marquess Camden was understood to say, that it could not be completed in a short time, to make alterations in statutes, in cases where it was necessary to go back so many years, and where so many legal questions must necessarily arise. He was, however, quite sure that in the University of Cambridge a strong inclination existed to make such alterations as time and circumstances had rendered necessary.

fellowships to laymen, and to require that no person holding a fellowship should be obliged to take orders till he arrived at the age of thirty-one; whereas, it was evidently the intention of the founders of that society to make it an institution for persons designing to enter the Church. Another proposition was, to discontinue divine service during week days, and he was sure their Lordships would not say that a gentleman was the enemy of all improvement because, considering the objects for which the college was founded, he resisted that proposition.

Lord Holland begged to assure the House that he did not mean to comment on, much less censure, proceedings of which he knew nothing. He had heard what had fallen from his noble Friend, and it seemed to him rather unusual that a party should not only be judge and jury, but should also carry his own sentence into execution. Having been an humble member of that University for seven years, and remembering well the history of the expulsion of Locke and of the execution of Algernon Sydney upon proceedings exactly like the present, he could not avoid expressing his surprise that his noble Friend behind him (the Earl of Radnor) should have confined his case to a charge of the heads of the University, under their statutes forming judge and jury, and that he should have omitted to add, that they had actually taken upon themselves the execution of the law.

He had, perhaps, been irregular when he interrupted his noble Friend, but he had felt anxious to put this point before their Lordships.

Lord Brougham remarked, that he thought it quite right for the noble Baron to have reminded the House of an act which, by the law of Parliament, had The University been declared murder. of Oxford had hanged a man for an unpublished libel under a statute which, though exploded by the law of the land, had taken refuge in the University of Oxford.

The Bishop of London would like to trouble their Lordships with a few words, as in consequence of the confusion which had prevailed, he had not enjoyed the privilege of hearing what had fallen from the noble Marquess. The noble Earl had stated, that one of the fellows of Christ's College had prevented any reformation being made in the statutes; but the fact was, that the parties who dissented were four fellows out of thirteen, and of these four, three had concurred in an appeal to the visitor; and, there- posed a libel, which was found in his posfore, a sort of compromise had been en- session. Now, by the law of the land, he tered into between the majority and could not be tried until he had published minority. He thought it but right, how-it, publication being the offence, but by ever, to the parties who were charged with resisting improvement, so called, that he should tell their Lordships what were the alterations proposed. One of the proall the posals made was, to throw open

It was true the man had com

the University statute he had been tried for composing, and not for a publication, inasmuch as it did not appear that he had shown it to a single individual. It was true there was an old dictum to the

contrary, and he well remembered that Mr. Justice Holroyd, for whose opinion he entertained the highest respect, expressed some doubts as to whether publication was necessary to constitute the offence. But what he wished to know from the noble Marquess opposite (Camden) was, whether this was now also the law of Cambridge? He did not go along with the noble Duke opposite in thinking that Oxford had power to do exactly as she liked, for she had not power, under her statutes, to amend them and make them conformable to the laws of the land. To enable her to do this, and to give her aiding and ancillary laws, was the object of his noble Friend (the Earl of Radnor). The right rev. Prelate said, it was wished to throw open certain fellowships, but it was impossible, for so long as subjects could be found to fill them, even the Court of Chancery had not the power to throw them open. His noble Friend wished to invest them with those powers.

under the discredit and disgrace of having expelled that illustrious scholar, Locke, on some similar charge of libel. He had thought, that matter had been long ago refuted. The noble Baron who had mentioned it, would find that the University of Oxford had nothing whatever to do with the expulsion of Mr. Locke. It was true, that distinguished man had been deprived of his tutorship at Christchurch, but by whom? Why, by the power of the Crown, expressed by the then Secretary of State, the Earl of Sunderland. There was still extant a curious correspondence between the Earl of Sunderland and Bishop Fell, then Dean of Christchurch; and, from that correspondence, it distinctly appeared, that by the authority of the Crown, Mr. Locke had been deprived of his tutorship. Subject dropped.

PLURALITIES.] The Archbishop of Canterbury moved the Order of the Day for the committal of the Benefices Plurality Bill. He said, he should not detain their Lordships, for the number of amendments and corrections was so great, that they could hardly be discussed with any advantage till the bill had been reprinted. He should, therefore, wish to go into Committee, put in his amendmentsany other noble Lord might move for leave to do so-and that the bill then be

The Duke of Wellington reminded the noble and learned Lord of that which both he and the noble Earl opposite (Radnor) appeared to forget, that by no statute could the University make any statute contrary to the law of the land. This conversation showed the inconvenience of discussing a great matter by little bits of some statutes and on mere corners of subjects not fairly brought before the House, or properly brought under consi-printed. deration. He was sure the principle he had stated was correct-namely, that the University had no power to make statutes contrary to the law of the land.

Lord Brougham quite agreed with the noble Duke, but the University had power to pass statutes for discipline. There were many of the statutes passed both by the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge which were totally repugnant to the law of the land, but still they had reference to the discipline in both Universities. They might hold it necessary to prevent even the composition of libels, but still that was clearly with a view to discipline. Again, the discipline with regard to debts in both Universities wholly differed from the law of the land.

The Bishop of Glocester had never heard of such a law, as that which had been mentioned in the University of Cambridge. He must be allowed to add, that he had heard it stated, with great surprise, that the University still laboured

Their Lordships went into Committee. The Bishop of Rochester objected to the third clause, as bearing rather hard on the clergy without any corresponding advantage, and moved that it be struck out.

The Bishop of Glocester said, this was a bill for limiting pluralities, and encouraging residence, and therefore promoting the more efficient discharge of their spiritual duties; but this clause would tend to neither one nor the other. It was not to prevent the holding of cathedral preferment, but that it should not exceed a certain sum; if the cathedral benefice or preferment amounted to 1,000l., the holder must not take any preferment above 500l. He could not think what reason there was for such a proposition, and believed, that those who introduced the bill into the other House could hardly have taken the whole of the matters connected with this subject into consideration.

Clause struck out. A number of amendments having been introduced, the

POOR-LAW (IRELAND).] The Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned debate on the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill, was read.

House resumed. Bill reported, and or- influence was opposed to it. He could dered to be reprinted. tell their Lordships, that Ireland was at present in a state of ferment on the subject of this bill, and if it were passed, he feared, the greatest evils would result in consequence. He called upon the Irish landlords in that House, to oppose this highly objectionable measure, and he entreated them not to allow themselves to be swayed by party feelings, or to give their sanction to a measure which could not be attended with any beneficial effects. In the other House of Parliament, a large majority of the Irish representatives

Viscount Melbourne moved, that the bill do now pass, when

had given their votes against the bill, and as the people of Ireland, were almost unanimous in their opposition to the measure, he trusted, that time would be afforded for its further conHe consideration, and that it would not be pressed through the House at that period of the night, and at that advanced period of the Session.

The Marquess of Londonderry said, it was not his intention to take up their Lordships' time by entering into any discussion either of the principle or of the details of the bill in its present advanced stage; but he thought it was highly desirable that those noble Lords who, like himself, were opposed to the measure, should have an opportunity of recording, by a final vote, their opinions in regard to that most important measure. sidered the bill, after the full consideration which their Lordships had given it, and notwithstanding all the amendments which had been made in its various clauses, to be still highly objectionable; and, indeed, he thought, that the amended bill was worse than the bill which had been sent up to them from the other House of Parliament. Entertaining such sentiments, and persuaded that the bill, instead of being productive of good, would be productive of the greatest evils, he felt bound to give it every opposition in his power; but, at the same time, he felt that it would be in extremely bad taste, after the discussion which the measure had already undergone, and the attention which their Lordships had given to its details, to take up their time on the present occasion. Ireland was almost unanimous in its opposition to this measure, and every class of persons looked to the passing of the bill with the greatest alarm. Both landlords and tenants, as well as the poor themselves, were opposed to the bill; and he deeply regretted, that his noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) had not adopted a different course, and given his decided opposition to the measure. Feeling that the measure was pregnant with evil, and not calculated to yield any advantage to Ireland, he begged leave to move that the bill be rejected.

The Earl of Limerick also opposed the bill. No person had petitioned the Legislature to pass such a measure, and Ireland was almost unanimous in opposing the bill. Almost all the grand juries had petitioned against it, and every person of

The Marquess of Clanricarde wished also to record his disappointment that the measure had come out of the Committee as bad as before it went in. The bill was a complete poor-law; all the benefits, if they would, of a poor-law, and all the evils, if evils there were, were to be found in it; it was a complete and perfect poor-law, settlement and all; and he objected to it, because it was a bad law to introduce into a country where it did not already exist, for it was held by the best authorities, and by the most practical men, that a poor-law-he did not allude to medical or other charitieswas detrimental to the moral, the social, and the physical, condition of the people among whom it was introduced. He objected to it also because if it were introduced at all, the taxation ought not to be limited exclusively to one class of property; and, moreover, he objected to it because it conferred powers on the commissioners with which the servants of the Crown in this country, even in good times, were never invested, and which it was unwise now to give to any persons in Ireland; and those powers were more especially objectionable there, because the people of Ireland, with very few exceptions, were against the system altogether. They had been told, that the bill would work, and noble Lords had spoken with confidence of the machinery for working it; but it was not to be worked, like a watch or a steam engine by certain fixed machinery,

whole rental of Ireland. Besides this, there were to be the expenses of building the workhouses, of furnishing them, the salaries of the officers and of the chaplains, the expenses of witnesses, and a rating for the purposes of emigration and of surveys. The building of workhouses alone would amount to upwards of a million; and, the commissioners, he believed, admitted, that the whole amount of expense incurred, would not be less than four millions. He would conclude

it was to be worked by the people, and it would never work well, or effectually, unless it were taken up cordially by them. Their Lordships could not expect to see it succeed when the people of all classesboth the common people who were to receive, as well as those who were to pay, the rates, and who had a direct interest in the well-being of the labourers-were united in reprobating this bill. Against it, therefore, he would vote, though he did not trust or believe, that in that the last stage, they would be able to stop aby repeating, that if ever there were a measure which was bad, not only for what it did, but also for what it would prevent being done. It would put an end to all public improvements on a great scale. It would be considered as a full measure of relief to the poor, and for the next four or five years no more assistance would be furnished than was provided by this bill.

The Earl of Mountcashel protested against this dangerous and destructive measure, which he believed would bring rebellion and revolution upon the country, and he called upon the House to pause before it passed a bill fraught with such serious consequences. The bill was disapproved of by all classes in Ireland, and with the enormous amount of pauper population existing there, it would be impossible to carry it out in the spirit of its enactments. The farmers in that country were so poor, that they had only the value of the labour of their own hands; they could not, there fore, pay rates, and the effect would be, that the rates would fall on the landlords; but how could the landlords pay them? Many of them now had barely sufficient to maintain themselves. The landlords then objected to the bill, and not only the landlords, but all classes. in Ireland, objected to it; the lower orders were as much opposed to it as the higher. It was, in fact, an English bill, and forced by the English upon the Irish landlords. They could not thank noble Lords for it, neither would Ireland thank them for it; and when the Irish thought upon the measure, their feelings would be less kind towards England than they now were. The poor-law commissioners, indeed, stated, that the population, unable to obtain subsistence by work for thirty-two weeks in the year, amounted to 2,385,000; and their relief, at 31. a head, would take more than the

question brought forward by Parliament likely to produce rebellion, this was that measure. The radicals and the Conservatives, the rich and the poor, in Ireland, were all opposed to it; and his only consolation was, that as the people and the priests united-although opposed by the landlords, yet assisted by Mr. O'Connell, had been successful in their opposition to tithes they would equally succeed now, when not only the priests and the people, but also O'Connell, the Conservatives, and the Protestants of Ireland, were united under such circumstances, he might defy her Majesty's Ministers to bring the bill into successful operation in Ireland. There was no country where they better knew the use of passive resistance; there was no country in which agitation was so well understood; both these means would be brought into full play, and if their Lordships passed the bill, he was convinced that it would have no effect. Meetings would be held, the people would not elect guardians, passive resistance would be resorted to, they would show England that she could not impose such a bill on Ireland, and even if the army were doubled it would not be able to keep the peace.

Lord Brougham had so often had an opportunity of discussing this question, and he had now so little of the hope which cheered the noble Marquess (Londonderry), and had so little assurance of doing anything effectual in that stage, that he had hesitated, whether it were worth while to give his Lordship the discomfort, or himself the labour, to touch upon the various heads, however shortly, upon the present occasion; nor would he at all have ultimately made up his mind to say a few words on that stage, unless he thought that he might seem, by his silence, to have altered his opinion, or to have abated one jot of his objection to the bill,

or that the alterations or amendments | was with firmness and discretion, and which had been introduced in the com- above all, characterised by uniform momittee on bringing up the report, or even deration, by their long suffering under the on the third reading of the bill, had at all attacks to which they had been exposed, mitigated his aversion. In order to avoid not recoiling from those attacks, and yet such a construction, he would shortly not running forward; for it was as bad in state, that he still entertained the same such matters as in the field, to rush forrooted objections to the bill which he felt ward before the time for operations bewhen it was first broached, which all subse- gan; they had never been shaken in their quent consideration, and the arguments intentions, they had never stirred before which had been used in its favour, had only the time when it would have been critended to confirm, not only his individual minal to have longer remained inactive; objections, but the objections entertained they had lived down, and acted down all over Ireland; where the repugnance slander; and they had obtained, what and dislike, were not at all abated. He they were from the beginning entitled greatly differed, however, from a remark to, the uniform, the general, the almost which his noble Friend had thrown out in universal approbation of their fellowone of the interlocutory conversations in citizens. Having thus referred to the which, during the passing of the bill, as commissioners, he would advert to the well as in the regular debate, the measure subject of the bill itself. And first, he had been discussed, and in which his objected altogether to the analogy drawn noble Friend seemed to undervalue the from England to Ireland; and if he wanted merits of the poor-law commissioners in a proof that this analogy did not hold, he England. Their selection of functionaries would appeal to the noble Lord opposite, under the English bill, founded an addi- who had stated, what indeed other noble tional claim on the part of the board in Lords, and in his own communications England, to the gratitude of the public; had confirmed, that the highest and lowest for the selection of fit and proper persons ranks of society in Ireland, that all persons to fill the offices in the State, was of the without distinction of politics, without utmost importance. But as it was said of variation of sect, Catholic and Protestant, a great princess, "it was never found"- layman and Priest, Radical and moderate in answer to some one who had said, that by great good luck she had been served by able Ministers-" it was never found, that a weak prince was served always, although by chance he might be once served, by able statesmen." The choice of a proper public servant conduced more than one-half towards good government, and in the choice of Mr. Gulson, and indeed all the assistant commissioners, were, more or less, well chosen-all had, more or less, well discharged the duties of the important office-had done credit to the English commissioners, and had added to their claims upon the people. The whole country acknowledged, that no men had a more difficult task to perform, considering the nature of the case, and considering the multitudes with whom they had to deal multitudes enraged by misrepresentations, with their minds so perverted by slander and by inflammatory topics urged at public meetings, as to leave the judgment no scope-than this difficult and most delicate of all the tasks intrusted to the hands of the commissioners, and of all the powers conferred upon them. But by the judgment they had displayed, tempered as it

if, indeed, in Ireland there could be, which he humbly begged leave to doubt, such a thing as a moderate party-Radical and Whig, orange and green, and not only those who depended upon labour, but the poor themselves, objected to this pretended boon; one class, because of the burthen, which they considered a curse, and the other class because they considered it a sham and a pretence, and anything rather than a remedy for the evils of their situation. What, on the contrary, was the case in England? The new poor-law here was unpopular with one class-with the jobbers in the vestries and the jobbers in the workhouses, who naturally objected to suffer loss. It was disliked by the idle, the lazy, and the dissolute, who could work, and who could obtain work, but who would rather live on the charity of others than support themselves. It was passed, indeed, against the wishes, the apprehensions, the squeamish opinions, and the perverted tastes of these classes, for labour was not unnatural to man, it was the result of the original curse; but, in man's fallen state, it carried its sweets along with it, and it was a per

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