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CHAPTER XXVI.

A DIALOGUE, OR THE SUM OF A CONFERENCE BETWEEN SOME
YOUNG MEN BORN IN NEW ENGLAND AND SUNDRY ANCIENT
MEN THAT CAME OUT OF HOLLAND AND OLD ENGLAND,
ANNO DOMINI 1648.1

CHAP.
XXVI.

YOUNG MEN.

GENTLEMEN, you were pleased to appoint us this time to confer with you, and to propound such questions as might give us satisfaction in some things wherein we are ignorant, or at least further light to some things that are more obscure unto us. Our first request therefore is, to know your minds concerning the true and simple meaning of those of The Separation, as they are termed, when they say the Church of England is no Church, or no true Church.

ANCIENT MEN.

For answer hereunto, first, you must know that they speak of it as it then was under the hierarchical prelacy, which since have been put down by the State, and not as it is now unsettled.

2. They nowhere say, that we remember, that they

'That is, the Dialogue was held or written in 1648.

THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND NO TRUE CHURCH.

415

are no Church. At least, they are not so to be under- CHAP. stood; for they often say the contrary.

3. When they say it is no true Church of Christ, they do not at all mean as they are the elect of God, or a part of the Catholic Church, or of the mystical body of Christ, or visible Christians professing faith and holiness, (as most men understand the church); for which purpose hear what Mr. Robinson in his Apology, page 53. "If by the Church," saith he, "be understood the Catholic Church, dispersed upon the face of the whole earth, we do willingly acknowledge that a singular part thereof, and the same visible and conspicuous, is to be found in the land, and with it do profess and practise, what in us lies, communion in all things in themselves lawful, and done in right order."

4. Therefore they mean it is not a true church as it is a National Church, combined together of all in the land promiscuously under the hierarchical government of archbishops, their courts and canons, so far differing from the primitive pattern in the Gospel.

YOUNG MEN.

Wherein do they differ then from the judgment or practice of our churches here in New England?

ANCIENT MEN.

Truly, for matter of practice, nothing at all that is in any thing material; these being rather more strict and rigid in some proceedings about admission of members, and things of such nature, than the other; and for matter of judgment, it is more, as we conceive, in words and terms, than matter of any great substance; for the churches and chief of the ministers

XXVI.

416

XXVI.

BROWNISTS AND SEPARATISTS.

CHAP. here hold that the National Church, so constituted and governed as before is said, is not allowable according to the primitive order of the Gospel; but that there are some parish assemblies that are true churches by virtue of an implicit covenant amongst themselves, in which regard the Church of England may be held and called a true church.

Answer.

Where any such are evident, we suppose the other will not disagree about an implicit covenant, if they mean by an implicit covenant that which hath the substance of a covenant in it some way discernible, though it be not so formal or orderly as it should be. But such an implicit [covenant] as is no way explicit, is no better than a Popish implicit faith, (as some of us conceive,) and a mere fiction, or as that which should be a marriage covenant which is no way explicit.

YOUNG MEN.

Wherein standeth the difference between the rigid Brownists and Separatists' and others, as we observe our ministers in their writings and sermons to distinguish them?

ANCIENT MEN.

2

The name of Brownists is but a nickname, as

The learned and ever-memorable John Hales, of Eton, said of this word Separatist, "Where it may be rightly fixed and deservedly charged, it is certainly a great of fence; but in common use now among us, it is no other than a theological scarecrow." Works, i. XV. Foulis, 1765.

James Howell, in one of his letters, aping the style, whilst devoid of the liberal spirit of Sir Thomas Browne, has the following

I

charitable sentiment; "Difference of opinion may work a disaffection in me, but not a detestation. rather pity than hate Turk and infidel, for they are of the same metal and bear the same stamp as I do, though the inscriptions differ. If I hate any, it is those schismatics that puzzle the sweet peace of our church; so that I could be content to see an Anabaptist go to hell on a Brownist's back." Letters, p. 270, (ed. 1754.)

PURITANS AND HUGUENOTS.

417

XXVI.

Puritan' and Huguenot, &c., and therefore they do CHAP. not amiss to decline the odium of it in what they may. But by the rigidness of Separation they do not so much mean the difference, for our churches here in New England do the same thing under the name of secession from the corruptions found amongst them, as the other did under the name or term of separation from them. Only this declines the odium the better. See Reverend Mr. Cotton's Answer to Mr. Baylie, page the 14th.3

That some which were termed Separatists, out of some mistake and heat of zeal, forbore communion in lawful things with other godly persons, as prayer and hearing of the word, may be seen in what that worthy man, Mr. Robinson, hath published in dislike thereof.

YOUNG MEN.

We are well satisfied in what you have said. But they differ also about synods.

1 See note on page 12.

The origin of this word is unknown. Some have thought it was derived from a French and faulty pronunciation of the German word eidgnossen, which signifies confederates, and which had been originally the name of that valiant part of the city of Geneva, which entered into an alliance with the Swiss cantons in order to maintain their liberties against the tyrannical attempts of Charles III. duke of Savoy. These confederates were called cignots, and from thence very probably was derived the word huguenots. The Abbé Fleury says, Ils y furent appelés Huguenots,

The

du nom des Eignots de Genève, un
peu autrement prononcé."
term was first applied to the Cal-
vinists of the Cevennes in 1560.
See Mosheim's Eccles. Hist. iv.
368; Fleury, Hist. Eccles. xviii.
603. An admirable Memoir of the
French Protestants, both in their
native country and in America,
written by that accurate annalist,
Dr. Holmes, is contained in the
Mass. Hist. Coll. xxii. 1-84.

3Neither was our departure
from the parishional congregations
in England a separation from them
as no churches, but rather a seces-
sion from the corruptions found
amongst them."

418

NO SYNODS AMONG THE SEPARATISTS.

CHAP.
XXVI.

ANCIENT MEN.

It is true we do not know that ever they had any solemn Synodical Assembly. And the reason may be, that those in England living dispersed and' could not meet in their ordinary meetings without danger, much less in synods. Neither in Holland, where they might have more liberty, were they of any considerable number, being but those two churches, that of Amsterdam and that of Leyden. Yet some of us know that the church [of Leyden] sent messengers to those of Amsterdam, at the request of some of the chief of them, both elders and brethren, when in their dissensions they had deposed Mr. Ainsworth and some other both of their elders and brethren, Mr. Robinson being the chief of the messengers sent; which had that good effect, as that they revoked the said deposition, and confessed their rashness and error, and lived together in peace some good time after. But when the churches want neither peace nor light to exercise the power which the Lord hath given them, Christ doth not direct them to gather into synods or classical meetings, for removing of known offences either in doctrine or manners; but only sendeth to the pastors or presbyters of each church to reform within themselves what is

amongst them. "A plain pattern," saith Mr. Cotton in his Answer to Mr. Baylie, page 95, "in case of public offences tolerated in neighbour churches, not forthwith to gather into a synod or classical meeting, for redress thereof, but by letters and messengers to admonish one another of what is behooveful; unless

Here something seems to have been omitted.

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