refusing to take the Oath of Allegiance, and says (Harl. Misc. iv. 282) :— "Did not the Pope, when he had got up over the churches, give forth both oath and curse with bell, book, and candle? And was not the ceremony of his oath to lay three fingers a-top of the book to signify the Trinity, and two fingers under the book to signify damnation of body and soul, if they sware falsely? And was not there a great number of people that would not swear, and suffered great persecution, as read the Book of Martyrs but to Bonner's days?" NINIAN MENVIL, 1510. (4th S. ix. 300.) Overawed by Dudley, the Peers quickly agreed to it, after some futile opposition from Cranmer and Lord Stourton; but it met with a less favourable reception in the Commons, who, being jealous of the increasing power of Dudley, refused to pass it unless the accuser and accused were brought face to face before them, and other disinterested testimony adduced. This demand it did not suit Dudley to comply with, and the Bill was thrown out. Nothing daunted, the latter induced the He goes on to mention the ceremony of the Pro-king to appoint a Special Commission to try the testant oath, and says, "it saith Kiss the book," bishop. Fortunately for him, Menvil had mislaid and this was probably a novelty. a letter written to him by the bishop, which letter JOHN PIGGOT, JUN. was, in fact, the only reliable bit of evidence which he had to offer. The trial was therefore postponed, until by bad luck the letter was found in a casket at the Duke of Somerset's. The bishop was again put on his trial and finally deprived. Dudley had now obtained his desire; the revenues of the Palatinate were assigned to him, and he took up his residence in Durham House, the bishop's town mansion. Here his fourth son, Lord Guildford Dudley, was married to Lady Jane Grey, and here, on the death of Edward, this unfortunate lady was proclaimed Queen. For his share in the conviction of Bishop Tunstall, Menvil received 100l. from the royal treasury. Fortune did not, however, long smile on his perfidy. He was attainted, 1 & 2 Philip and Mary, for high treason committed at Durham House-that very house which he had been so basely instrumental in obtaining for his unworthy patron! His crime consisted in having joined in proclaiming Lady Jane Grey. He managed cleverly to escape, fled to Scotland, and was outlawed; his estate being conferred on Bishop Tunstall's nephew. He was hospitably entertained in the sister kingdom for some time, but returned to England on the accession of Elizabeth, when his attainder was reversed, and his lands at Sledwish, Middleton, Windleston, Whorlton, and Barnard Castle, co. Pal., restored to him. He was subsequently employed on various confidential missions by Sir William Cecil, and died, I believe, about 1562. He left issue a son, Ninian, vicar of Gilling, co. York, who died in 1576, and a daughter, who still survived in 1584. My authorities are Talbot Papers, State Papers, Surtees's Durham, Strype's Memorials, and Sadler's State Papers. The facts of this gentleman's chequered career are not merely of genealogical and family interest; they are of considerable historical importance-throwing light, as they do, upon one of the darkest of the many dark passages in the life of the infamous John Dudley, Duke of Northumberland. I trust therefore you will allow me to reply in detail to the somewhat discursive query of P. M. Ninian Menvil was, I believe, the eldest son of Anthony Menvell, Esq., of Sledwish, co. Pal., and was a descendant of the baronial house of Menil of Whorlton, of which the Meynells of Yarm and the Mennells of Malton, co. York, are the present representatives. He appears to have been born about 1510; and about thirty years later, at the request of Katherine, Countess of Westmoreland, was appointed by the Earl of Shrewsbury, then Commander-in-Chief, to a Captaincy in the Army of the North. Soon after the accession of Edward VI., he tried to raise a rebellion in the North, with the ostensible object of restoring Catholicism, but, in reality, probably with interested views. In this attempt he did not succeed. He had, however, gone far enough to place himself within reach of the law. Unfortunately for his own security, Cuthbert Tunstall, then Bishop of Durham, had been made aware of Menvil's designs, and, though he refused to give him his open countenance, had privately encouraged him in his rebellious machinations. To save himself, Ninian Menvil went to Dudley, and offered, if he would obtain him the royal pardon, to betray the bishop, whose rich possessions the former had long coveted, into his hands. To this Dudley assented, hoping by the disgrace of the bishop to obtain for himself the temporalities of the see of Durham and the dazzling title of Prince Palatine. This was in June, 1550. The bishop was summoned to London in October, and soon afterwards committed to the Tower. A Bill was then brought into the House of Lords for his deprivation, and for vesting the revenues of his see in the Crown. C. T. S. THE PERMANENCE OF MARKS OR BRANDS ON TREES (4th S. ix. 504; x. 19, 95, 154.) -All who are interested in this matter, as well as in the accuracy of Macaulay's statement respecting the tree in Toddington Park, will feel obliged to two gentlemen residing in the neighbourhood, to whom I am indebted for the following particulars: "I am sorry to say no trace of any letters remains upon the tree in question. There is, however, a space, father and mother; and now, on the authority of an article quoted from the Cambrian Quarterly Magazine (4th S. ix. 490), we are told that his first wife's name was Margaret, daughter of John Edwards of Stansly, in Denbigh. In some published accounts he is said to have been placed at service, at an early age, in the family of Sir Thomas Middleton, Lord Mayor of London, who is called his "kinsman." How were they related? Sir Thomas Middleton was owner of Chirk Castle, in Denbigh, near which the family of Edwards was also seated. Did Sir Thomas take his young servant and kinsman with him to Chirk Castle, and did the latter there meet his future wife, Margaret Edwards? irregular in form, about 12 inches by 16, from which the bark of the tree has been entirely removed; and tradition states that it was on this spot the initials of the Lady Henrietta Maria Wentworth were carved by the Duke of Monmouth. I recollect asking the late Mr. A., who died at an advanced age, and who had been born at the Manor House, if he had ever seen the letters, but he could give me no information on the subject-merely stating that when the greater part of the timber in the Park was cut down this tree was specially preserved. It would appear the letters had been removed with the portion of bark they were cut in. The spot is precisely at the height (from the ground) where any one would cut a name. Some years ago, in conversation (I think it was with Lord C- R-), I was told that Mr. Macaulay derived his information from the late Lord Holland of Ampthill Park. The tree, as you know, is a fine old oak, some centuries old, but has much suffered from storms Again, who were the brothers of Col. Jones referred and tempests. It is still a great ornament in the Park." to in his "Cosin's" (Ric. Pryce's) letter? Was Mr. A gentleman, then, born at the Manor House, Houffre Jones of Pater Noster Rowe one of them? who died several years ago at an advanced age, There was a Humphrie Jones, who, with Henry could not say he had ever seen the initials, Jones, at the sales of the Bishops' lands in 1648, which he must have remembered doing if they had became a purchaser of the manor and lordship of been the object of such especial regard in the neigh-Istervin, in Flint and Denbighshire. bourhood; and although it cannot be doubted that the initials were cut, it may be questioned whether the piece of bark was not removed from the tree shortly after Monmouth's death, possibly by Lady Wentworth's direction, or, immediately after her decease, by some member of her family, who would value highly such a memorial of her unfortunate attachment, and dread lest it should be furtively removed by others. The fact of the tree having been so scored would account for the subsequent veneration in which it was held, although the initials had long disappeared. FRANCIS J. LEACHMAN, M.A. 20, Compton Terrace, Highbury. J. J. LATTING. 20, Nassau Street, New York, U.S.A. THE HEAF (4th S. x. 201.)-Nothing is advanced by M. calculated to prove that heaf is anything but heath. The peculiar sense acquired by the word in Cumberland is the result of local peculiarities. Against heaf representing a certain Danish word we have the fact that, in notably Danish districts in the south, the word heaf is unknown, while heath is very common, and heath-rights and common-rights equally so. I hold the word to be merely a variation of heath, in accordance with the dialects of Craven and Lancashire, which notoCOL. JOHN JONES, THE REGICIDE (4th S. ix. riously substitute v for th, as in "wiv dew" for 426, 490; x. 138.)-In the Archeologia Cam-N. & Q." 4th S. x. 83, and in Halliwell's Dic"with dew," as may be seen in "Milkin Time," brensis for July, 1849, vol. iv. p. 222, was pub-tionary. The change of th into v is frequent in lished an extract from a letter, dated "Salop, the 27th May, 1648," written by Richard Pryce to his "Respectfull good ffriend Collonell Jo: Jones," then or shortly expected in London, in which allusion is made to Col. Jones's brothers, and is signed "Ylo: [loving] Cosin to serve you RIC: PRYCE," and the superscription directs it to be left at the house of Mr. Houffre [Humphrey] Jones, sitheman at the Goate in Pater Noster Rowe." The original letter was stated to be then in possession of W. W. E. Wynne, Esq., of Peniarth. If it is still in existence, I would like to see it published in "N. & Q.," without any omissions. It may help to throw some light upon the obscurity which now rounds the origin and family of Col. Jones. place-names, as in Liverpool for Litherpool, Liver- W. B. Having served upon juries in Carlisle on similar trials to those mentioned by your correspondent, I may remark that it is well known, and has been sur-experienced, that flocks of sheep will stick to their own heaf on the fell with very little attention from Pennant, in his Tour in Wales, 1770-1780, states the shepherd; indeed, it has been proved in evithat at Maes y Garnedd, near the celebrated Pass dence that they will eat up to the boundaries of of Drws Ardudwry, in Merionethshire, he visited their heaf, and retrace their steps, rarely exceeding, the house which was the birthplace of Col. Jones. but generally keeping within, its limits. In letting This statement of the fact that he was born there those sheep-farms with fell-rights, the breeding has been followed by Williams in his Lives of Emi-stock of sheep is always taken with the land. nent Welshmen, who supplements the names of his CUMBRIA. WALTER SCOTT AND "CALLER HERRIN'" (4th S. x. 249.)-After giving two quotations from Scott, MR. BOUCHIER asks whether he took his idea from the song, or the author of the song his from Scott? There can be no question that Scott borrowed from the song, as it was written long before Sir Walter was known as an author. The writer of the song was Lady Nairn, who also wrote many others, most of which became great favourites with the public. She was born in 1766; but it was stated in a former number of "N. & Q." (3rd S. xii. 451) that it took fifty years to settle the authorship of some of her songs, such as the Land o' the Leal. In most collections of Scotch songs, Caller Herrin' will probably be found. The tune, which is peculiar and very expressive, may be seen, arranged by Finlay Dun, with new words by Delta, in Dun and Thomson's Vocal Melodies of Scotland, vol. iv., under the title of Mourn for the Brave. F. C. H. possess Caller Herrin' was composed by Carolina Oliphant, Baroness Nairn, and, as editor of her poems, I the MS. of the song. It was written for Neil Gow, the celebrated violinist and musical composer, and may be assigned to the first decade of the century. It remained anonymous till the death of the gifted authoress, a quarter of a century ago. CHARLES ROGERS, LL.D. These lines were composed about the year 1822, when King George IV. visited Edinburgh, and were anonymously published by Lady Nairn in the fourth volume of R. A. Smith's Scottish Minstrel, 1823—a musical work of which she may be said to have been the literary editress. Edinburgh. WM. SCOTT DOUGLAS. WELL OF ST. KEYNE (4th S. x. 249.)-The first line of the verse included in the note by A. R. differs from that in my copy, which, instead of " After the wedding I hurried away," is "I hasten'd as soon as the wedding was done." I have sometimes seen it thus:"I hastened as soon as the knot was tied." I was born within a very few miles of the Cornish Well of St. Keyne, and have frequently drunk of its water. The scene is laid by Southey, not in St. Neots, as A. R. supposes, but in the parish of St. Keyne, between Looe and Liskeard, in the south-east of the county, and about five miles, as the crow flies, from St. Neots. Torquay. WM. PENGELLY. The authority for the history of St. Keyne is Capgrave, who says that St. Keyne or Keyna was the daughter of Braghan, Prince of Brecknockshire. She passed the Severn, and abode on the banks of the Avon, at the place now from her called Keynsham, near Bristol. After several years, she returned to her native place, and obtained by her prayers the spring which has ever since been called St. Keyne's Well. F. C. H. HATS (4th S. x. 247.)-It is stated in the article with the above heading, that in 1822 the beaver hat had no rival and the silk was unknown. The first may freely pass, but I must dispute the second. For nearly twenty years, at least, before 1822, silk hats were in fashion, as I well remember. Of course, MR. LENIHAN knows all about the varieties of chip and straw hats; but did he ever see or hear of a tin hat? I can remember when some young men actually wore hats of tin, blackF. C. H. ened over. "A PRISON IS A HOUSE OF CARE," &c. (4th S. x. 248.)-MR. EYRE gives only part of the quotation; the rest runs thus: "Sometimes a place of right, Sometimes a place of rogues and thieves, The inscription was painted on the old prison of Edinburgh, and I have seen the author's name G. mentioned, but I forget it. These lines were cut on the prison wall of York Castle by James Montgomery, the poet, who died April 30th, 1854, and a memoir is given in the Gentleman's Magazine (1854), xli. p. 659. L. L. H. My SMOTHERING FOR HYDROPHOBIA (4th S. x. 272) Wales, told me many years ago of an instance of -A friend of mine, a clergyman on the borders of this mode of treatment, where, from the circumstances of the case, there was no reason to doubt the evidence. An old parishioner of his was giving him an account of her family, and said: "My first husband died in such and such a manner. second we smothered." My friend was naturally startled at such an avowal, but he found she meant simply what she said. Her husband had been in the agonies of hydrophobia, and his friends had adopted what she supposed to be the regular remedy. It had happened many years before, and there was nothing more to be said. H. WEDGWOOD. 1, Cumberland Place, Regent's Park. DESCENDANTS OF THOMAS GUY, FOUNDER OF THE HOSPITAL (2nd S. xi. 462.)-Twenty years ago inquiry was made in your columns upon this subject, which has some interest, because of the large benefactions of Guy, the founder of the Hospital named after him, and who sat in Parliament as M.P. for Tamworth from 1695-1707, vide sketch of his life (2nd S. xi. 462). It is also a matter of practical importance to those who, by virtue of a bequest left by Guy to Christ's Hospital, have the right of admission of their sons to that 4th S. X. OCT. 19, '72.] NOTES AND QUERIES. PRESERVATION OF CORPSES (4th S. x. 204.)— 66 case on record" I send for the The following perusal of MR. COLEMAN. It is taken from The Gossiping Guide to Wales, by Askew Roberts (London, Hodder & Stoughton), p. 138: Lives of institution in turn, as vacancies occur-a privilege that William of Occam was born about the year enjoyed by my relatives in former times and now. 1270, the exact year being uncertain. Allow me then to put on record one line. John Eminent and Illustrious Englishmen (1837) gives Weetman, yeoman of the county of Stafford, was circ. 1280 as the date of his birth, and gives as its F. A. EDWARDS. first cousin to Guy (who died unmarried), and re-authority Bruckeri Hist. Phil. iii. 846. ceived an annuity under his will. This John Weetman was grandfather to Elizabeth Weetman, who married Thomas Tibbatts, at Witherley, Leicester, Sept. 4, 1760. Their great-grandson, John Capper Tibbatts, is now living at 44, Bishopsgate Street Without, London. My grandfather, Robert Miller, surgeon, of Kingston, son of Rev. Edward Miller, Rector of All Saints, Northampton, married Elizabeth Tibbatts, daughter of the Thomas Tibbatts named above. Their son was my father, also Rev. Edward Miller, who died 28th June, 1857. The Ann name Weetman has also been preserved. Tibbatts, sister of the Elizabeth Tibbatts named, married her relative, Thomas Harrison Weetman, and their son, Charles Weetman, is living at Man-out a fragrant odour. cetter, near Atherstone, Warwickshire. JOSIAH MILLER. Newark. BEAVERS IN BRITAIN (4th S. x. 273.)-Traces of the former presence of the beaver in this country are to be found in our place-names; e. g. Beverley, Yorks; Beverege, Worcester; Bevercoates and Beverlee, Notts; and Beverstone, Gloucester. The Cymric word fraucon, a beaver, is also to be found in Naut Fraugon. Owen, in his Welsh Dictionary (1801), says that beavers had been seen in Carnarvonshire within the memory of man. J. CHARLES COX. Hazelwood, Belper. “HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF" (4th S. ix. 139.) I have sought your aid, without effect, for the origin of this phrase, and curiously enough have since seen it used at least twice by your contributors. The following from the Pall Mall Gazette made me think I should find it in The Heirat-Law, but I have searched that play in vain :— "The rotatory theory of history is one in which we should be loth to acquiesce. Yet the following extract from the Universal Chronological and Historical Register for 1792, under date April 29, is, we must confess, calculated to suggest desponding reflections even to a disciple of Pangloss:-At this period the following principal factions predominated in France; first, the Absolute Royalists; second, the Constitutional Royalists; third, the Republicans; fourth, the Anarchists.' Still further to perplex me I came upon the May I again ask your assistance? W. T. M. : WILLIAM OF OCCAM (4th S. x. 128.)- The Imperial Dictionary of Universal Biography states "The next station is Llanrhaiadr. : A curious the church, The lady whose memory it preserves was story is told concerning the subject of the monument in in her lifetime an ardent Methodist and social reformer, and when, nearly half a century after her death, by some means-why we never heard-her coffin happened to be opened, the body was found to be as fresh as on the day of burial. Nay, it is even said that the flowers which had been laid with the body were fresh too, and threw Of course you don't believe the story; but in 1841, when the body was again exhumed, after three years of interment, the parish clerk says he saw it still unchanged; and the then Mayor of Ruthin vouched for the fact! Llanrhaiadr is midway between Ruthin and Denbigh, on the Vale of Clwyd Railway, and 1841 is not a very old date if any one should be curious enough to test the story. V. ORIGIN OF THE WORD "FOLK-LORE" (4th S. x. 206.)-The following quotation from the part of Photographic Portraits of Men of Eminence (A. W. Bennett, 1865) containing a biographical sketch of Mr. W. J. Thoms, F.S.A., will answer the query of W. E. A. A. :— "We may be pardoned for here mentioning the fact that it was when inviting assistance in the preservation of our old superstition and mythology, that Mr. Thoms first made public the word 'folk-lore, to designate the subjects of popular belief and knowledge. The word was at once caught up and adopted in England and on never existed until Mr. Thoms made use of it in the the Continent, and few would now believe that the term Athenæum of 22nd August, 1846." JOHN PIGGOT, JUN.. SCIPIO'S SHIELD (2nd S. ii. 352, 514.)-At the "I have first reference MR. RILEY mentions, somewhere read that Scipio's shield, made of silver, was found about two hundred years since in the river Rhone." Doubtless that gentleman's allusion is to a passage which I have just come across in New Memoirs of Literature, London, Jan., 1726, vol. iii. p. 326:- "Mr. Massieu, in his Dissertation upon votive shields, observes that Scipio, returning to Rome, took that shield along with him, and that going over the Rhone he lost it with part of the baggage. It remained in that river till the year 1656, when it was found by some fishermen. It is now in the cabinet of the King of France." J. MANUEL. Newcastle-on-Tyne. [L, at the last reference, states that the shield was found in 1714 in the village of Passage, a little to the south of La Tour du Pin, near the road from Lyons to Chambery.] proprio e confacente carattere. Ecco gittata in bronzo la figura d' un gatto domestico, messo in acconcia postura delle membra, e ritratto con verità pari di forme. Non ho memoria di aver mai veduto per l'innanzi questo animale figurato in altri lavori degli Etruschi. Il presente proviene direttamente da Volterra." These accumulated proofs have, I confess, converted me from my original opinion (ante p. 158), and made me a dissenter from Sir J. Lubbock's doctrine, that the domestic cat was unknown to the ancients. CCCXI. "whose Christian name smacks of a Scotch descent, did not repel the advances of his Caithness namesake, Mr. Paip, who claimed him for kindred." What here, in the learned gentleman's own phrase, constitutes the "real evidence," I fail to perceive. Alexander is a common Eastern name. If I mistake not, it was borne by one or two of the poet's namesakes of the Triple Crown. It is historic in the Empire of the Czars, and I never understood that the weeping celebrity who tamed Bucephalus was a 66 Scot by descent." Perhaps Mr. Innes had been thinking of Alexander Macdonald, who is supposed to have been the remote progenitor of the Earl of Stirling, and to have transmitted his baptismal name, Alexander, as the family patronymic, arguing thence that Macdonald being a Celt, the name must be native. It is curious to note the varieties in which the poet's name occurs on the other side of the Atlantic. This appears to have been borne by the first settlers of the city of Boston and the small adjoining town of Chelsea (which together constitute the county of Suffolk) in the orthography of Pope, Pepe, Pop, Popp, Poppe, Papa, and Pappy.† BILBO PICTURE OF SHAKSPEARE'S MARRIAGE (4th S. x. 143, 214, 278.)-Since writing the note in "N. & Q." (ante p. 143) to which Mr. Holder refers, I have had an opportunity of seeing the picture at Mr. Macmillan's, and of meeting the gentleman to whom it now belongs. As I make no claim to be "a judge of old paintings," I give no opinion of the evidence which the picture itself affords of its genuineness. But the sight of the ALEXANDER POPE OF SCOTTISH DESCENT (4th picture, so far from altering the opinion which a S. ix. 502; x. 56, 118.)-Professor Cosmo Innes little common sense and a slight knowledge of Shak- gives countenance to the notion that Pope was a speare and his biography had led me to form, alto-"Scot by descent." "Alexander Pope," he says, gether confirmed my views. The bona fides of Mr. Malam was so obvious, that it was difficult to urge so strongly as might have been done the obvious contradictions to the genuineness of the picture which one glance at it seemed to reveal. In like manner it was difficult to point out the inconsistency in the history of the picture which Mr. Malam gave, based, I presume, upon the information of Mr. Holder. Mr. Malam stated that, when Mr. Holder first got the picture, it seemed so worthless that he was on the point of throwing it away; and Mr. Holder in his letter says, "I doubted if it would ever pay me to line, clean, restore, and frame it, so little did I care for it." But at the latter part of our conversation Mr. Malam stated that, when Mr. Holder discovered what the picture was, he asked double the price that he originally wanted; and Mr. Malam was good enough to tell me what the respective prices were. The original price was eight guineas, and the increased price at which he bought it fifteen. We have now three steps in the history of the picture. The first, when it was comparatively worthless; the second, when Mr. Holder wanted eight guineas for it; the third, its present state, when it was purchased for fifteen. BELL INSCRIPTIONS (4th S. x. 105, 155, 219, 253.) An interesting question arises from these facts: -A caution to bell-hunters. Heads at Cobberley. What was the condition of the picture when Mr. Bell-hunters would do well to be cautious before Holder asked eight guineas for it? I presume they rush into print, and commit their discoveries to while in London the picture was seen by more the world-wide pages of "N. & Q." What a blunder than one competent judge of such matters. It is do we see in a late issue-No. 248, p. 253-anto be hoped the readers of "N. & Q." will have nouncing to us that there is and was a bell at Cobthe benefit of their opinions. THE EX-EDITOR. berley bearing representations of the Virgin Mary -mistaking the crowned heads of royalty, one with a curly beard, the other with a wimple, for the Virgin Mary! Whereas they are the heads of Edward I. and Eleanor-such as are found on many bells in Gloucester. SIR JOHN LUBBOCK ON "FELIS CATUS" (4th S. ix. 532; x. 56, 92, 158, 212, 279.)-In looking over the plates to Micalis Monumenti Inediti (Firenze, 1844), I found in Tav. xvii. the figure of a cat, seated upright, with its tail curled round its feet (No. 8). In the letter-press of the work, it is thus described : I speak the more positively as I possess the * The Macdonalds are among the clans expressly named by Dr. MacCulloch, Mr. Worsaae, the Danish antiquary, and Mr. Hill Burton, as being of Norse descent, as indeed it can be shown were all the Islesmen. + See Suffolk Surnames, by N. J. Bowditch, Boston, 1861. |