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a difference of opinion in parliament, but of his people, and also too much humanity a dissention in the cabinet; even the mi- to have agreed to such a proposal had it nistry were not of one mind. His grace | been made to him. This remark of the desired their lordships to recollect, that noble lord's was therefore a mere quibble, the question no longer was, how they a misapplication of terms and meaning. were to reduce America, but whether they | What right had the noble lord to comment could reduce America. In his idea the on political proceedings ? Where was he war was not more impolitic than imprac- when these transactions were conducting? ticable, and instead of sitting in debate, He was immersed in pleasure, and indulg. how to carry it on with success, it more ing himself in all the variety of dissipation materially behoved their lordships to con- that young noblemen are too apt to devote sider how they could put a speedy period themselves to. He was here called to to it.

order : he did not sit down, but, changing The Earl of Fauconberg supported the hissubject, he called upon the noblelord who previous question, arguing, that in point had conducted the expedition, to explain of delicacy to Mr. Burgoyne, it was wrong to the House, whether or no any such into begin the enquiry in his absence. His structions were contained in the orders lordship took pains to rescue Mr. Bur- that he, during that war, received officially goyne from the charge of inhumanity, from him. shewing, that he endeavoured as much as Earl Gower, after returning the asperipossible to restrain the fury of the Indians, ties of the noble earl, declared, that nothing and prevent them from perpetrating acts should prevent his speaking his mind freely. of cruelty.

That he despised the conduct of those The House then divided on the earl of Jords who affected great humility in the Chatham's motion : Contents 19: Not very moment when they were throwing Contents 40.

out insinuations, the most illiberal, the The Earl of Chatham next moved for, most unmanly, and the most untrue. “ Copies of all Orders and Instructions to He was a plain man, and he ever used lieut. general Burgoyne, for employing plain arguments. He was therefore free any of the Indian savage nations against to repeat, that the noble earl had himself, the inhabitants of the British colonies in while at the head of administration last North America.”

war, not only employed Indians, but emThe Earl of Abingdon supported the ployed them under instructions and treamotion. He said, the war had commenced ties of the most sanguinary tendency; and in tyranny and injustice, and had been in order to shew that this assertion was conducted upon principles of the most sa. not made merely to catch the public, and vage cruelty. He called upon lord Am- serve the purpose of temporary delusion, herst to declare what he knew of the mat- he would prove what he had said by pro. ter, as the fact in dispute had been so fre- ducing from the Journals of the House, quently referred to his decision.

one of those treaties, which breathed the Earl Gower could not avoid mentioning spirit of cruelty in a greater degree than one thing, which was, the wonderful incon- any instructions which government had sistency in the conduct of the noble mover. / sent out to the commanders in America, In a previous debate the noble earl had since the present unhappy war had comacknowledged, that Indians were employed menced.—While his lordship was search. in the King's service in America during | ing for this treaty, a strange confused al. his administration, and now he reprehended tercation took place, which, however, was the practice as derogatory from the honour put an end to by reading the extract, of the nation.

which was a treaty with an Indian nation, The Earl of Chatham rose, and re-l one condition of which was, that they proached the noble lord with petulance should kill and scalp every Frenchman and malignant misrepresentation. The who came within their country. Though observation he made in the debate alluded the French were then at war with us, he to was, that Indians had, indeed, crept into presumed, the noble earl, nor no lord prethe service from the utility the officers sent would say, that they were more hos. found them of in several of their enter-tile to us than our rebellious subjects. prises, but that their employment had His lordship added, that the tribe of Innever been sanctioned by him in his offi- dians alluded to were situated on the back cial capacity; he believed his Majesty had of South Carolina. He believed it was too much regard for the military dignity during the government of Mr. Lyttelton.

The Earl of Chatham denied he ever had. Savages might have been employed; but he denied he knew any thing of the matter; and called upon the noble lord, who at that time commanded in America, to declare the truth. The question was not, whether Indians were employed in Canada the last war; but whether they were employed in the line, in the manner it was presumed they were now employed. Lord Amherst rose with seeming reluctance. He said, he had hoped that what had been drawn from him the first day of the session, would have proved satisfactory to the House. The fact was, that the French employed Indians the last war; and we followed their example; and that most certainly he should not have ventured to do so, if he had not received orders to that purpose. The Earl of Shelburne observed, that both accounts were perfectly reconcilable. Indians might have been employed. The noble lord who spoke last, might have had orders to enter into treaties with and employ them; and yet the noble earl might be fully justified in his assertion. The orders were probably conveyed to the noble lord, who then commanded in America, through the channel of the Board of Trade; and not through that of the Secretary of State. Indian treaties, and all the affairs relative to the superintendants for treating with the Indians, passed, while he had the honour to preside at the board, through the Board of Trade. It was so most probably at the period alluded to ; and for his part, he well recollected, he made it a point, as much as possible, to keep all the official business transacted there as much a secret as possible from the Secretary of State. While he was up, he would take an opportunity of observing the savage mode which had been adopted in conducting this cruel war throughout. Cruelty and injustice were its leading features. The French officers, taken prisoners going to America, had been inhumanly treated; and as to the American prisoners in England, they were treated with the most unprecedented barbarity. If we were not generous, we should endeavour to imitate the generosity of America. It would become the humanity of the English nation to open a subscription for their relief; whenever it was opened he would contribute his mite. Earl Gower rose again, and protested, he would not be daunted by the dictatorial manner of the noble lord; he was an ho

nest man, and spoke like one: he did not indeed possess in an equal degree the faculty of eloquence; he could not pour forth tropes and fine words in such abundant profusion, but he possessed as good . an understanding as the noble lord: that it was the noble lord who had recourse to mean evasions; for that connivance was certainly a tacit acquiescence in the propriety of the measure; and that being privy to their employment, and giving a public sanction to it, was rather a difference in words than in things. If private characters were to be enquired into, he believed his would stand the test as well as his lordship's; and that the imputation of variety o with as much justice, be applied to lin. The Earl of Chatham rose, and, with great appearance of humility, congratulated his lordship on the goodness of his understanding; far was it from him to suppose himself a competitor in abilities with the noble lord, who had so ingeniously affirmed, that giving an order, and not giving one, were words of synonymous signification. He added a few words relative to his own life, which he acknowledged to be various enough; and wished, that the noble lord who then commanded in America, would put an end to the altercation, by telling the House his orders, and who he had them from. The Duke of Richmond contended, that the order read by the noble earl from the Journals was nothing to the purpose. It was the right of war, a necessary duty created by that state, to keep our territories free from the enemy; but murdering defenceless people, or prisoners of war, was an act of a very different nature. His grace also argued the great difference between presenting a bayonet to a man’s breast in action, and torturing men, women and children with the knife and tomahawk in cold blood and in captivity. His grace denied, that the assertion that the Americans had first employed and attempted to employ the Indians had been proved. The Earl of Dunmore asserted, that he himself had been attacked by the Indians, set on by the Americans, and that a party of them had attacked the northern army, by whom one of them was killed. The Duke of Richmond said, this was no answer: he had heard indeed of a negro and a highlander having been tied together, but an assertion that one Indian was killed by the northern army, did not

prove that the Americans employed the / The Earl of Dunmore replied, as far Indians first.

| as the allusion might be meant to affect The Earl of Denbigh attacked lord him, he was ready to submit his conduct Chatham, and called him the great oracle to the most rigorous enquiry; and the with the short memory, asserting that the sooner the better. He had done his duty Indians were employed last war, that the as a servant of the crown; and as to his returns of the army must have shewn it, personal conduct, he defied his enemies; and that as his lordship, when in office, for he was fully conscious of having bealways contended for guidance and direc- haved like an honest man. tion, he could not be ignorant of the mata / The Earl of Chatham again called on ter if he had not lost his memory.

| lord Amherst to know, whether he had The Earl of Dunmore declared that the any instructions from him as secretary of Virginians had used every effort to induce | state. the Indians to join them, and that the chiefs Lord Amherst. I was desired to make of one of the Indian tribes to whom they treaties with the Indian powers; I was applied, had made answer, What, shall charged with it in my instructions. we fight against the great King over the The Earl of Chatham still persisted in water, who in the last war sent such large declaring his ignorance of any such inarmies, and so much money here, to de- structions; and said, he was sure, they did fend you from the devastations of the not pass regularly through his office, nor French, and from our attacks ? No, if you were ever signed by the King. have so little gratitude, we will not assist The Earl of Suffolk said, that all inso base a purpose.” His lordship added, structions to governors and commanders that the Virginians, finding themselves in chief necessarily came through the office thus disappointed, had dressed up some of of the secretary of state, and were countertheir own people like Indians, with a view signed by the King to terrify the forces under him; and his! The Earl of Chatham rose finally, to lordship declared, he heartily wished more beg, that lord Amherst would favour him Indians were employed; that they were with a copy of the instructions sent to him by no means a cruel people; that they last war, which authorised him to employ never exercised the scalping-knife, or were savages. guilty of a barbarity, but by way of strik- ! Lord Amherst said, he would readily ing terror into their enemies, and by that oblige him, with his Majesty's permission. means putting an end to the further effu. The House then divided on the Earl of sion of blood.

Chatham's Motion : Contents 19; NotThe Duke of Richmond said, he wished Contents 40. not to employ savages, who wantonly tortured our fellow-subjects with the scalp- Debate in the Commons on Mr. For's ing-knife and tomahawk, and were then to Motion for an Enquiry into the State of be defendod on the ground of having been the Nation. Dec. 2. Mr. Fox informed 66 cruel only to be kind,” of having com the House, that, agreeably to his promise, mitted murder, cold blooded murder, in he rose to move the House, that on a fuorder to put an end to a war in which ture day they should form themselves into they had no interest.

a committee of the whole House, to conThe Earl of Dunmore rose again to sider of the State of the Nation. He shew how much the Americans exceeded thought it necessary, he said, to explain the Indians in barbarity, instancing a great the meaning and extent of the several' variety of circumstances, and among others motions he meant to propose, which he the fate of colonel Campbell, to prove that would do in a very few words. He meant they did not even affect humanity, but then, that the Committee should consider were most industriously cruel, most wan. the expences that the nation had incurred tonly inhuman.

in consequence of the American war, and The Duke of Richmond believed there the resources that we possess to raise the had been very dark and bloody proceed supplies necessary for its continuance. In ings in the scene of action alluded' to, and the second place, the loss of men from that trusted a day of enquiry would come, when war. Thirdly, the situation of trade, both these horrid transactions would be en with regard to America and the foreign quired into, and the authors meet with markets. Fourthly, the present situation condign punishment, if they should be of the war, and the hopes that we may found to deserve its

rightly entertain from its continuance, and the conduct and measures of the pre- | 1774 ; distinguishing each year, corps, and sent administration, of a lasting peace, and service. 2. A List of the different ships and also our present situation in regard to vessels of war, and hired armed vessels, foreign powers. And fifthly, to consider which have been employed in his Majesty's what progress sir William and lord Howe service in North America, since the 1st of have made in consequence of the powers November 1774; together with the numintrusted to them as commissioners, by an ber of men lost or rendered unserviceable Act of the 16th of his present Majesty's in each ship or vessel respectively, by reign, for granting pardons, &c. for the death, desertion, captivity, wounds, or purpose of bringing about a peace between sickness; distinguishing each head. 3. GeGreat Britain and the colonies. Under neral Returns of the hospitals in North these general heads, many other enquiries America, made up from the 1st of No. would arise, and it would be the business vember 1774 to the 1st of October 1777; of the Committee to follow every path together with the state of them, according that promised to lead to a thorough into the last returns; distinguishing the numvestigation and discovery of the real state bers of men of all denominations which of the nation. If, continued he, it appears have died or recovered during the abovethat the nation is in a bad state, and that mentioned period. 4. An Account of the the late and present measures of adminis-ships of war and armed vessels, appointed tration have reduced us to an extremity, as convoys to the trade of this kingdom which he was afraid they certainly had, a and Ireland, since the passing in the 16th of new system must be introduced, and a new his present Majesty, the American Prohiset of ministers appointed ; but if, on the bition Act; distinguishing the names and contrary, the nation should be found in a force of the ships appointed, and the parflourishing state, and the present mea- ticular dates and services upon which they sures likely to prove successful, the pre- were so appointed as convoys; together sent system should be, by all means, con- with the notices given to the traders of tinued, and the present ministers remain the time prefixed for their sailing, and the in power; for none, he was assured, but actual times at which they sailed respecthe present ministers, could prosecute the tively. 5. An Account of his Majesty's present system. He concluded with mov.ships of war which have been employed, ing, “ That this House will, upon Mon- since the passing of the said Act, as day, the 2nd of February next, resolve cruizers for the protection of the trade of itself into a Committee of the whole House, this kingdom and of Ireland, the stationsto consider of the State of the Nation.” of such ships, and how long ordered to

Lord North said he cheerfully agreed continue thereon, with the times of their to the motion, and would do all in his going to sea, and returning into port. power to promote the great end he had in 6. Copies of the last general monthly re. view. Nothing would give him more true turn of the forces in Great Britain. 7. Co. delight, than to convince the House that pies of the last general monthly return of the state of the nation was much more the forces in Ireland. 8. Copies of the flourishing than many of the opposite side last general monthly returns of his Majesactually did, or affected to believe. Atty's forces, as well foreign as British, in the same time he wished to be understood, North America and the West Iudies.” that his ready compliance with the motion All these motions were agreed to. He should not preclude him from objecting next moved for “ Copies of all such Pato papers being laid before the House pers as relate to any steps taken for the that might prove inconvenient, or hurtful fulfilling of that clause of an Act, passed to the country.

in the 16th year of his present Majesty, The motion was agreed to: and the intituled · An Act to prohibit all trade and House was ordered to be called over on intercourse with the colonies of New the 2nd of February.

• Hampshire, Massachuset’s Bay, Rhode Mr. Fux rose again, and moved, “ That Island, Connecticut, New York, New there be laid before this House: 1. An Act Jersey, Pennsylvania, the three lower count of all the men lost and disabled in his counties on Delaware, Maryland, VirMajesty's land service (including marines • ginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, serving on shore, and all foreign troops in and Georgia, during the continuance of British pay) by death, desertion, captivity, the present rebellion within the said cowounds, or sickness, in any province of • lonies respectively; for repealing an Act, North America, since the 1st of November, made in the 14th year of the reign of his (VOL. XIX. ]

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present Majesty, to discontinue the land of revocation, by which he preserved him<ing and discharging, lading or shipping, self from the execution of every grant he 6 of goods, wares, and merchandize, at the had made. His conduct reminded him of • town and within the harbour of Boston, in a certain governor, who, when he arrived

the province of Massachuset's Bay; and at his place of appointment, sat down to a • also two Acts, made in the last session of table covered with every dainty and deliparliament, for restraining the trade and cacy that art, nature, and a provident commerce of the colonies in the said Acts steward could furnish; but a pigmy physi• respectively mentioned; and to enable | cian, who watched over the health of the 'any person or persons, appointed and governor, excepted to one dish, because • authorised by his Majesty to grant par- it was disagreeable; to another, because it

dons, to issue proclamations in the cases, was hard of digestion ; to a third, because and for the purposes, therein mentioned ;' | it was unhealthy; and in this progressive by which, persons, appointed and autho- mode, robbed the governor of every dish rized by his Majesty, are empowered, on the table, and left him without a dinner. under certain conditions, to declare any He exposed the folly of the idea, that we

colony or province, colonies or pro- must not negociate with the Americans • vinces, or any county, town, port, dis- until they had renounced their claim of

trict, or place, in any colony or pro- independence. Are they not, he observed, • vince, to be at the peace of his Majesty ;' in possession ? Are they not independent, and also that his Majesty would be pleased de facto ? They possess the whole country to direct, that a Return of such colony or of America. What we have, we have province, colonies or provinces, county, gained by arms. If we have a government town, port, district, or place, in any co. in America, it is founded upon conquest, lony or province, as has or have been de. since they set up their independence; and clared to be at the King's peace, pursuant as they enjoy the right, de facto, and we to the powers of the said Act, be laid be. alone de jure, we must and ought to treat fore this House.”

with them on the terms of & fæderal Lord North said he must object to this union. He instanced the supposition of motion. He was ready to grant every rea- a treaty with France. The king of Great sonable information in his power ; but he Britain enjoys the right de jure to the could not consent that discoveries should kingdom of France; the French king enbe made prejudicial to the true interests joys it de facto ; he is merely a congress of this country.

| usurper; and yet would it be argued, Mr. Serjeant Adair could not see what that no treaty of peace could take place discovery could be made, in the least in. / with him until he had renounced his claim? jurious. None was called for that the He wished the House to consider the efAmericans did not know already. They | fects that would arise from a renunciation must only be withheld, he presumed, be of their independence. By renouncing cause they might prove injurious to admi- their independence, the Americans acnistration.

knowledged their rebellion ; by acknowMr. Hans Stanley objected to the mo- ledging their rebellion, they acknowledged tion. Negociations to rebels in arms, their crime; by their crime they were must be made, not to the people at large, deprived of their rights and obnoxious to but to select bodies, perhaps to indivi. punishment. In such case, no treaty duals ; and the discovery might draw upon could be made consistent with the honour them the vengeance of the others. But, of the British name; so that terms of nein truth, he knew not that any negocia gociation must be entered into during their tion had been entered ipto. With rebels independence. He said, that the Act on in arms, standing up for independence, no which lord and sir W. Howe were vested treaty of conciliation could be made. The with their commissions, proposed two mevery proposition acknowledged their inde thods to be prosecuted to bring about a pendence.

peace; the one by force of arms, the other Mr. Burke observed, that he never by terms of conciliation. It would be neknew the noble lord (North) to behave cessary to inquire if both these methods with so much candour and generosity : had been practised; the first, he was senhe had agreed to every tittle of his hon. sible had been indeed tried, but he was friend's request ; he had published a bond afraid the second had not, else why were wherein he granted all ; but in the end was not New York, Staten and Long Islands, inserted a little defearance, with a power with any other territory we are in posses.

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