of the motion, he would not be one of those who would give his vote in favour of any positive resolution of parliament, to exclude the people without doors totally; and if the power could be totally vested in the Speaker, and committed to his discretion, he might perhaps risk a little of the strictness of his ruler's doctrines.

Sir W. Meredith said, that none but members ought to be present during the debates of that House; there were votes published under the Speaker's authority, which sufficiently declared the sense and determination of the House of Commons on every important question. The arguments, the motives, the policy, and influence that might induce those decisions, were out of the pale of popular enquiry. The world at large, even our immediate constituents, had no just claim to be apprized of all the minutiae of debate; but if gentlemen wished to let in strangers, they should first learn to preserve better temper, to lay aside inflammatory declamation, personal animosities, and indecent. freedom of speech; then, perhaps, all parties might coincide in an opinion to extend the indulgence that was now asked for, as far as it could go, without impeding the business of the nation, or molesting the members in the possession of their seats in the body of the House.

hold.] May 1. It was moved, that the
Bill "for the better support of his Ma-
jesty's household, and of the honour and
dignity of the crown of Great Britain,"
be committed: which being objected to;
after a short debate, was resolved in the
affirmative.
"Dissentient'

"Because though I admit and zealously contend, that the splendor and dignity of the crown of Great Britain and the credit of the royal household, ought, for his Majesty's personal satisfaction, no less than for the honour of the nation, to be maintained by liberal grants of parliament (liberal beyond the charge of parsimony, or a minute calculation of the demands of government), yet when no consideration is had, and no account whatever given in, of various productive funds of which his Majesty's servants are in the receipt, and which never are accounted for in parliament, I must insist, that all calculations of a deficiency in the assumed sum of 800,000l. only, are fallacious and absurd.

"Because these funds produce either the sum of 78,000l. or more or less. If they produce that sum, the produce more than liquidates the present stated debt: if they produce less, but yet produce something, the accounts upon the table cannot be true, for such produce would then either have been accounted for in diminution of The Speaker finished the debate, by this debt, or such produce is still in hand, calling on the House to instruct him on and the means of discharging such debt this delicate occasion how he was to act. remain; or there has been some secret He said, if it were to meet the sense of expenditure to which it has been applied, the House, and he could be allowed to and which administration have not thought admit strangers impartially, and according fit to mention. If they produce (as I to a general rule agreed on by all parties, cannot but think they do produce) consihe should be far, for his part, from having derably more, it surely rests on adminisan objection to such indulgence; but he tration to shew the application, rather than wished not to have a discretionary task becomes the credulity of parliament to acassigned to him in an affair of this kind, cept these accounts as complete, or its gewhere he was apprehensive that the best- nerosity to supply with such readiness, meant complacency, and unbiassed dis- and consequently encourage the wantonpensation of his power, would fail of giv-ness of their profusion as to the amount, ing that unanimous satisfaction which was the first object of his ambition.

and perhaps their criminality in destination of these sums.

"And because when, exclusive of the enormous sums stated to be lodged with certain who are members of the persons, House of Commons, for secret and special services, (words calculated to perplex, and not inform), the extravagant amount of salaries and acknowledged pensions, (to which parliamentary jealousy claims a right of making a large addition, on account of the general belief, amounting with many persons to an internal convic

tion, of considerable disbursements for se- | cret and unacknowledged purposes), is considered, I hold it my duty as a member of the legislature, to withhold the additional means, afforded by this Bill, of corrupting the integrity of parliament. "RADNOR."

more." All Germany will daily teaze with importunities, or stun this House with its after-claps. We shall never be easy; we shall never have done granting, nor they asking, while we have a shilling left to grant. He was severe on the minister for urging a matter of so much consequence when there was so thin an attendance.

state claim, now revived, was first made; | ber-" The fruitful parent of a hundred that a commission was appointed to take the whole of the German demands into consideration, to examine and liquidate them; that after the most laborious investigation, several of the claims, among which the present was one, were totally rejected, neither being properly vouched nor authenticated; and of those that had a colour of justice to support them, the commissioners thought they acted generously by liquidating the demands at 11d. in the pound discount; that is, instead of paying the German princes 20s., they gave them just 20d. An expression had fallen from him in a former debate, which he now begged leave to retract. He had said, that that House held the public purse. Fool, that he was, for being so deceived! He might have long since learned, that whatever sum the minister thinks proper to ask is instantly voted without hesitation, without account.

Mr. Cornwall said, he was one of the commissioners who were appointed to liquidate the German demands; but denied that the charge for hospitals was totally, or at all rejected. It did not properly come under the cognizance of the board, because it depended upon another account, not at that time made up, that of Mr. Bishop, who was purveyor to the hospitals. So far from the demand being stated, it was kept up from the time it was first incurred, to the present year, in a regular official manner; and when it came before the commissioners, it was neither refused nor reprobated, but was merely postponed, as not being regularly before them. From what appeared then, as well as what he had learned since, he was convinced the claim was a just one.

Mr. Burke said, he always understood that the German accounts had been settled many years ago; parliament and the nation, he presumed, understood so too. If he was mistaken, he was mistaken in good company; and all he could say now was, that the commissioners, among whom he might include his hon. friend, had not done their duty. This demand, which, it seems, was known to every one but those who ought to have been thoroughly acquainted with it, lay sleeping for upwards of two years, and now came waking to that House, which, indeed, seemed, like the claim, to be slumbering over the interest of the nation. If this demand was paid, the certain consequence would be, its being followed by others beyond num

Lord North allowed, that the account was of a long standing; and wished it had been made earlier. That, he observed, however, was the only objection that could be urged against it; for he was of opinion that the account was clearly stated, and that the demand was just, and ought to be paid.

Mr. T. Townshend spoke warmly against the motion. He observed, that the German accounts were made up most iniquitously; and that that able and honest man, the late Mr. Grenville, being minister at the time the commission was appointed to enquire into, and to liquidate them, set his face against them. He instanced one or two particulars of gross imposition, and observed, that although the defalcation made by the commissioners might not be quite so much, as that stated by his hon. friend, he was pretty sure that it amounted to full two-thirds, if not more. He instanced one article of 70,000l. being entirely rejected; whether the claim now made was included in that sum, he knew not; but he was certain the whole affair had a very disgraceful appearance.

Sir Charles Bunbury said, he should certainly give his negative to the resolution; an account examined and settled, should never again be brought forward, unless proofs, which were out of the power of the creditor, accompanied it. Nothing like that was pretended; no new light was spoken of; the only reason assigned by the minister for complying with the demand was, merely that it was made, and that was all.

An explanatory conversation now took place between lord North and Messrs. Barré, Cornwall, Townshend, and Burke ; in the course of which, nothing could be drawn from the Treasury-bench, but that the honour of the nation, founded on its good faith to all the world, particularly to its allies, rendered a compliance with the present demand indispensably necessary.

Mr. Burke denied that the good faith, or national honour, was at all concerned. On the contrary, he thought that they

The Resolutions were then agreed to. The Speaker having resumed the chair, as soon as the first Resolution was read,

So

were both so much concerned, as to re-entitle it to the attention of that House. ject the motion with contempt. If we He should say a word or two on each of gave money, we should give it spontane- those heads. As to the staleness of the ously, and not be bullied out of it. The demand, the contrary was manifest, for it Hessians were now maintaining a ministe- was included in the gross sum which came rial war in America. Honour, dignity, before the commissioners, but not thinking even decency was to be sacrificed to this themselves authorized, the matter, so far favourite measure. Hesse availed them- as it concerned them, was postponed, not selves of the glorious golden opportunity, rejected. Applications were then made and extorted the sum now demanded; through an official channel, where it was or, he presumed, threatened to withdraw answered, that until Mr. Bishop's actheir troops. He laughed at the dignity counts, who had the superintendancy of and honour of the nation, and the good all the hospitals, were received, nothing faith observed by it towards its allies; and could be done. When those accounts concluded with predicting, that the king were passed, the foreign hospitals made a of Prussia would again renew and press his part of them. They were accordingly reclaims relative to the arrears of subsidy ferred to the auditor of the imprest, where due since the late war; and, in his opi- being audited and passed, they were renion, was much better entitled to be gra- ferred back to the Treasury board. tified, than the landgrave of Hesse, though the affair stood in 1773 or 1774, when the he did not mean to consider the justice of last steps were taken in this matter. Other his Majesty's claim in any other than a business of greater importance, or accicomparative view. dent, prevented any thing more being done, till the treaties with Hesse were entered into and from that time till the account was ultimately examined and approved of, Sir Henry Hoghton said, that no person nothing particular passed on the occasion. would be readier to support the good faith The discharging the demand made no part of the nation than himself; but he could of any public or private stipulation. When never consent to the granting a sum of the Treasury board received that degree money, which exactly resembled a foreign of satisfaction, and those regular official tribute, extorted from us on account of documents it always requires, administrathe distracted situation of our public af- tion for the first time determined to bring fairs. He was certain, that no example of the matter into that House. The claim, such a requisition was known in the annals then, being neither a stale nor dormant of parliament, that a debt should be de- one, he could with justice say, that it was manded at the end of 14 years; and that never rejected. The reason why the comat such a critical season, that, he pre- missioners declined having any thing to do sumed, those who made it imagined that with it, was this: Mr. Bishop's accounts, it could not, nor would not be denied. in which those of the foreign hospitals were For his part, however ready he was to give included, not being passed in the official strength and vigour to government, he forms, it was impossible for them to detershould do all in his power to disappoint so mine on the affair of foreign hospitals, ungenerous an expectation; and as he without directly taking upon them to despoke, he should most certainly vote cide on Mr. Bishop's accounts, which was against it. He could not help expressing clearly out of their province. And as to some degree of indignation at an attempt, the last objection, that the accounts were which bore every appearance of endea- neither clear nor properly vouched, if even vouring to impose on the nation by means true, it did not remain to be now discussed. the most unprecedented and unjustifiable. If they were improperly passed, that might Mr. Cornwall said the affair had been to-be a subject very proper for the House to tally misunderstood in the committee. The demand was represented as a dormant claim, now revived, though suffered to sleep for 14 years; that it was rejected by the commissioners appointed to liquidate the German demands, during the administration of Mr. Grenville; and that, in its present shape it wanted that degree of authenticity, which it ought to have, to

examine into, as applying to the conduct of the officers; but, as against the claim, it availed nothing. The demand was made in time; it was regularly examined, and officially passed; and consequently, as between this country and the landgrave of Hesse, it had every sanction which the law or constitution could give it.

Sir George Howard observed, however