subject, but they were all strangled in their birth, by the previous question. If the noble duke was nevertheless serious in his opinions, and meant to abolish sinecure places; to strike off additional salaries, &c. he was very willing to co-operate in that business with him, and to give him every assistance in his power; but not on the present occasion, when their lordships were debating upon making a provision for the family of a man who had rendered such signal services to this nation. Such instances of national gratitude were necessary; and though he did not coincide in opinion, at all times, with the deceased earl, he could not but consider him as a great man, and a public character, whose services were well deserving that tribute to his memory, the present Bill was about to pay. He perfectly agreed with the noble earl, who spoke last, that the present set of ministers rather merited the axe or halter, than the honours and rewards which had been so profusely lavished upon them; and yet, what they possessed already was not deemed sufficient: for one of them (lord North) he understood, was shortly to be appointed to a sinecure place of 5,000l. a year, that of the Wardenship of the Cinque Ports. Was the noble duke, who opposed the Bill, serious? If he was, why not promote an enquiry into sinecure places, and thereby render an essential piece of service to his country, by endeavouring to procure a total abolition of them? This would shew, that the noble duke did not mean to use the argument of public economy and public inability, only one way; that his opposition was to things, not persons; that he was solely actuated by public motives, not private considerations: in short, to testify, that as he knew what faction was capable of doing, he was resolved to prevent its effects, without any regard to persons or parties.

The Lord Chancellor opposed the principle as well as provisions of the Bill; and did not approve of making it either a temporary or perpetual provision. He did not wish to take off from the services of the deceased earl; they had been fully acknowledged by his sovereign, and amply provided for. The noble earl, when he first retired from office, had a pension of 3,000l. per annum settled on him during his own life, and that of his lady and eldest son: a provision, let him be permitted to say, fully equal to the services performed by the deceased earl. In a few years afterwards, his lordship received a further

mark of his sovereign's bounty, by being called into a very high post, attended with great emoluments [Lord Privy Seal], when it was well known that his lordship's extreme bad state of health rendered him very incapable of assisting in his Majesty's councils. Those, he contended, were fully adequate to his services. The only precedent was that of the duke of Marlborough. The duke's abilities as a statesman and a general were conspicuous. He was appointed ambassador to negociate and settle the terms of the Grand Alliance, which, in its progress, afterwards broke the power of France, and set limits to the ambition of Louis 14. Yet when, by his great talents for negociation, he had effected so desirable an event, as bringing Holland and the German powers into the alliance, the queen having settled 5,0004. per annum during her own life, sent a message to the Commons to make it per petual. After a full consideration of the message, the Commons refused to com ply; and it was not till four years afterwards, after repeated victories, and render ing his name celebrated in all parts of Europe, and a terror to France, that parlia ment made the queen's grant perpetual. None of their lordships had a fuller sense of the services of the deceased earl than he had; but he presumed to say, that the precedent of the conduct of parliament, respecting the duke of Marlborough, was a good ground on the present occasion, against establishing a new precedent, which might, in times to come, be productive of great inconvenience, and mischief. But though every other objection against the Bill were done away, the time was to tally improper, for several reasons. heartily agreed, that this was not a proper time to be lavish of the public money, when we had the most urgent calls for it; when the strictest economy ought to be observed throughout every department of the state; and that so great a sum as 4,000l. per ann. was to be given, not to the person who had performed the services, but to his family, and that at the end of 16 years. This with me, said his lordship, is a circumstance which operates most powerfully against the Bill; why not make this provision in his life-time? The truth is, such an expectation did not exist; nor, were it made, would it probably have succeeded: the answer would have been, The noble lord is already provided for; he has acknowledged his being contented with what his sovereign has al

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ready done for him; and, since that period, except in the instance alluded to, he has not been in a situation to serve his country, nor, of course, to seek further reward, on the ground of subsequent merit. He said he never could agree, that the Lords, by either amending or rejecting a money Bill, thereby invaded the province of the other House; for he was satisfied, that their lordships were as much trustees for the people, as the Commons: they were, besides, either individually, or collectively, materially interested, both as contributors and as a legislative body. He did not see on what foundation their lordships could with justice pass the present Bill, while a brave admiral, one of their own body (lord Hawke) whose naval services could not be too highly extolled; and a most able officer at the head of the army last war (prince Ferdinand) went unnoticed and unrewarded, in the manner now proposed. As to the plea, that the Commons had passed the Bill, and that his Majesty assented, he wished their lordships to consider, that the matter was first agitated in the other House, of a sudden and at midnight; that the address to the King was of course moved hastily, and as hastily carried. His Majesty, thus applied to, was in a great measure obliged to comply. He spoke likewise very strongly against the mode in which the matter originated. He insisted, it was out of the natural course; it ought to have come from the crown alone; and that circumstance weighed sufficiently with him to reject the Bill. Before he concluded, he declared, he saw no reason for the nation to despond because the earl of Chatham was no more. There still remained as firm well-wishers to their country, and as capable of doing it essential service, as the noble earl. Whenever danger threatened, Englishmen naturally felt a proper spirit to defend their country, and attack their enemies. That spirit was now shewing itself in every corner of the island.

Lord Camden said, he was sorry to hear any comparisons made between the services of the noble earl and those of any other eminent characters, either living or dead. The noble duke who spoke first, and the learned lord on the woolsack, had both held forth in the highest strains of panegyric on the memory of the late duke of Marlborough; and very deservedly. They had dwelt on the scenes of his victories, and in their zeal seemed to forget those of the deceased earl; but if they

wanted to be reminded of them, he could tell their lordships, from the extremest east, where the sun rose, to the setting of that glorious luminary in the western horizon; in every quarter of the globe to the earth's remotest bounds, where the arms of Britain were borne triumphant; where operations by sea or land were invariably accompanied by conquest, by reputation, extension of commerce, and all the advantages and glories united, which have at former periods been separately the effects of successful war, or of the enjoyment of the blessings of peace; the East Indies, Africa, the West Indies, North America, the coast and territories of our enemies in Europe; all bear testimony to the services of the noble earl, whose merit had been endeavoured that day to be thrown so much into the shade. His lordship was proceeding with great energy, when he was interrupted from the woolsack. the Lord Chancellor moving to have the Commons' Journals of 1702 and 1706 read; in proof of his assertions, respecting the conduct of parliament towards the duke of Marlborough confirmed. This interruption was looked upon as disorderly by the House; and the noble lord was desired to proceed in his speech.

His lordship observed, that according to what had been thrown out by the noble duke who spoke first, the alteration proposed by his grace would operate as an entail, and could not go further than the son of the present noble ear!; he wished therefore to know from bis grace, whether that was what he meant? [Told it was.] His lordship then went on. On the first ground, that of inability; he said the annuity was made chargeable on the Aggregate Fund, which could continue no longer than this country remained in a state of prosperity, it being the residue of the produce of all the taxes, after the interest was paid to the public creditors. While, therefore, that fund, that depended on the sources of wealth and commerce, which the noble earl had been so successful in promoting and extending, continued to have a residue after discharging the prior demands on it; the inability of paying the annuity could not exist. If ever that fatal period should arrive, when the fund was unequal, then most certainly the provision must cease, and the descendants of the noble earl suffer in the general wreck and ruin of their country.

The learned lord who spoke last, had laid the chief stress of his argument, upon

brought in on a sudden, nor was the House taken by surprize. On the contrary, some days elapsed, and notice was previously given, not by an address at midnight, but in open day, that such a Bill was intended to be brought in, and the motion was carried nem. con. both in respect of the vote for paying the noble earl's debts, and for settling an annuity on his family. And as to the real sentiments of his Majesty, he had already given an indisputable proof of what they were, though allusions of a contrary tendency had been thrown out; a declaration within his own positive knowledge, and which endeared his Majesty to him more than ever. It made him love and admire him as a benevolent prince, as really the king and father of his people; and every way worthy of a dominion over their affections, as well as their persons.

the noble earl's being fully rewarded for his services, and the impropriety of doing that at the end of 16 years, which should have been done in his life-time; and presuming on that ground, that his sovereign, as well as the nation, looked upon it that he had made a provision for the deceased earl, fully adequate to his services. I will tell the noble and learned lord what came within my own knowledge, which will be a complete answer to every suggestion of this kind. When I had the honour of occupying a very high post in the same administration with the deceased earl, his state of health was indifferent, and his life thought to be in danger. Soon after his recovery, I had the honour of an interview with his Majesty; and the conversation turning on the illness of the earl of Chatham-I shall never forget the words, nor the gracious manner in which they were delivered: "If he had died," said his Majesty, "I should have looked upon myself bound to make a provision for his family."

His lordship made use of several reasons, to shew that the affair of the duke of Marlborough was very dissimilar in a variety of respects, and that no one particular properly applied as to the two cases, but the acknowledged merits of the noble duke and the deceased earl. He observed, that much had been said on the danger of establishing precedents. There were but two, should the present Bill pass, since the Conquest. He wished there were more; and he was sure there never was a fitter time, when encouragements ought to be held out, to stimulate men to great and glorious actions, than the present. He would, besides, wish their lordships to recollect, that the deceased earl received his death blow in the service of his country; he received it in that House, whilst he was endeavouring to assist in warding off the danger which threatened Great Britain. He was sorry to behold the present opposition, because it betrayed symptoms which portended no good, and looked as if the seeds of envy were not exterminated. He was in hopes, envy would have died with the noble earl, and have slept with him in his grave.

The noble and learned lord had said, that the Bill originated at midnight, and that the King was in some measure obliged to comply with the request in the Address voted by the other House; he had it in his power to set the noble lord right, and to contradict the assertion. The Bill was not

Admiral Hawke and prince Ferdinand of Brunswick had been alluded to by the learned lord, as having essentially served this country; most certainly they had, and undoubtedly their merit as professional men was unquestionable; but to whom ought it to be ultimately ascribed? To the earl of Chatham; the one was his admiral, the other his general. The battles they fought were battles of his planning; and so far from their individual merits lessening that of the deceased earl, or diminishing the value of his services, they went directly to increase and enhance both.

The noble duke who rose first, pointed out the necessity of introducing economy into the state; the noblé duke's argument was unanswerable in point of principle, and the spirit of it was pursued in the present Bill. True economy, both respecting the public and individuals, which required the same measure, was to spare, not waste. It consisted in a fitness of expence; in a proper liberality, guarded by a becoming prudence and frugality. The times called for the exertion of the first rate abilities in the public service. Such a mark of national attention as the present Bill manifested, would encourage able men to step forward, and do their utmost to merit and gain the applause of their country. Narrow notions of interest, fear of leaving their families unprovided for, and such sort of ideas, which swayed men's minds and prevented them from venturing forth, would be done away, in consequence of parliament's affording a proof, that the nation considered itself as the guardian of the families of those who had essentially served it, when they were no more.

His

lordship concluded with an high eulogium on the many public and private virtues of the deceased earl; and it was with difficulty we could determine, whether he acquitted himself best as a sound reasoner, an affectionate and warm friend, or an able advocate.

Lord Ravensworth spoke against the Bill. He said, if the noble earl had fully merited such favours, why had not his friends generously moved for them in his life-time, that he might have enjoyed them? The nation, allowing it owed a great deal to the deceased earl, was not indebted to his family. He came into parliament with him, upwards of 40 years since, and was acquainted with him when in the possession of all his powers of oratory. He was ready to confess his great abilities as a public speaker, and though he could not deny that they convinced the majority, both without and within doors, they had never convinced him that he was properly qualified as a statesinan to direct the affairs of this country. He had always considered the deceased earl's talents, and that daring spirit of enterprize, on which his reputation was chiefly built, as a very great misfortune to this country. Even the successes of our arms under his direction of the state machine, were not sufficient to alter his opinion. He considered those successes as ruinous, and he could not but still think, that the enormous debt incurred during his lordship's administration, led us into those difficulties which were the true cause of our present perilous situation. In fine, they came into parliament together, and sat in the other House for 14 years, and he was persuaded, that it would have been happy for this - country, if the deceased earl had never aspired to a public station; for though not the immediate, he was the mediate cause of all our subsequent misfortunes.

The Earl of Radnor defended the Bill upon one of the grounds on which the last noble lord stated his chief objection, which was, that the noble earl was no more, to whose memory the annuity was a grateful tribute. The noble lord, he observed, said, he should not have objected had the noble earl been living; but that was an essential difference in the case now. In his opinion, the argument made directly the other way; for however reluctant he might be to heap honours and emoluments on the living, especially at a time when the example of gratitude could not from the nature of things operate, either to the injury $

of the constitution or the state, but on the contrary, might materially serve the latter without violating the former. There was this difference between the present case and that of the duke of Marlborough, which prevented them from being considered as ultimately tending to the same effect. When the queen's message, in 1702, was delivered to the Commons, the earl of Marlborough had been then just created a duke, and he was in a great degree of personal favour with his sovereign, and in possession of high posts and emoluments. Parliament were perfectly defensible in acting with suitable caution. At present there could be no danger of establishing a bad custom; because parliament had their eyes open, and would at all times be able to see where pretences were only created, or where the claim was sufficiently well founded to confer a similar favour. His lordship acknowledged the infinite obligations of this country to the deceased earl. He only recollected one instance in his public conduct which tended to lessen those obligations, and that was a few years since, when his lordship, in the character of minister, set up the authority of a proclamation over that of an act of parliament. That glaring error, he confessed, he never could forgive; but when he said so, he meant merely as a public man, for notwithstanding any weight he might lay upon this circumstance, the services of the deceased earl were sufficiently important and conspicuous to warrant the passing of the present Bill; and he could not but wonder at the opposition given to it on the score of economy; for let the noble duke but turn his attention or recollection to the snug and lucrative sinecures enjoyed by some lords living, whose ancestors had taken advantage of their situation as ministers, and he would find, that two or three of their sinecures would purchase the fee simple of the paltry 4,000l. per annum, about which his grace has said so much. His lordship apologized to the House for having given it so much trouble, and in so unprepared, indigested a manner; declaring, that he had delivered his sentiments merely as they arose in his mind since his entering the House; and he felt it incumbent upon him to say thus much for two reasons; first, because he thought the Bill in point of retrospect, extremely proper as an act of national gratitude towards the memory of a faithful and able servant, and no less necessary at this cri