to my calculation, will not soon restore Majesty's most gracious message, they do peace in America. It may possibly be consider of the causes of the debts due on the period of the Trojan war, ten years at account of the Civil List, and likewise least, so that the nation may compliment what further provision may be necessary the Howe family with above 100,0001. to support the splendor and dignity of the free gift, at the rate of 1001. per week, crown of Great Britain." each brother, besides the settled


and Mr. Byng. If I am under the necessity perquisites, as officers. But, Sir, what of confessing my inability to understand connection has such an article as this with the accounts, still more do I feel myself at the Civil List, with his Majesty's houshold? a loss to comprehend the arguments of the

Let us not now, Sir, rashly proceed in noble lord; who has asserted that upon the iniquitous method of deciding on these the face of the account there is a diminutwo important questions, the expenditure, tion of 100,000l. in the expences of the and the increase of the Civil List, without last eight years; and yet he concludes, hearing the evidence, or hearing it only in with a demand of 100,000l. more; that part. We have not sufficient data to pro- the expences have gradually diminished, ceed. By such injustice we lost America. yet the demand increases with the dimiWe proscribed the inhabitants of Boston nution of expence, and the future revenue without hearing them, and in the same man- is to rise beyond the average of the last ner adopted coercive and sanguinary mea- eight years. The medium is under eighty, sures against the other colonies. Let us not but the demand is 100,0001. a year; the now advance a single step but with cau. noble lord claiming a merit at the same tion, with fear and trembling. We are time of a reduction within the four last asked to furnish the ministers with wea- years, even to that average, and confessing pons, which may be employed to our de- they might still be retrenched. No bestruction, against the liberties of our own nefit is to arise to the public from the country. An increased undue influence savings, as if the possibility of saving was must necessarily be created, and the over- the argument for an enlarged revenue. grown power of the crown enlarged. Mi- Sir, this awakens my suspicions more nisters only want what are called the particularly, when I observe, the exceedsinews of war.' The doctrine is now ing of 101,0001. in the article of secret avowed of the legality of introducing service money, and the pensions having foreiga troops into the British domi- risen from 192,0001. to 269,000l. I speak nions. The minister has the power of the of those only paid by the secretary of sword, when we give him that of the the Treasury; which articles I wish

How many nations have totally strictly to examine ; by no means relost their liberties by internal corruption, pining at the fair, open, and visible exand by mercenary armies? There is an pences of the crown ; and when the affected false alarm about faction and civil noble lord tells us, that there are more discord, disturbances and insurrections ; tables kept at St. James's, I will freely but it is well known, that civil dissentions answer him, I wish there were more still, have often among us been even favourable as we are all equally interested in the supto freedom. Montesquieu observes of port of the dignity and grandeur of the England, “ On voit la liberté sortir sans crown. : Nor do I mean to arraign all cesse des feux de la discorde et de la sé. secret service money, nor all pensions. A dition, le prince toujours chancelant sur commander in chief must procure intelliun trône inébranlable."

gence by money; there is a necessity for I desire, Sir, to submit to the noble lord allowing it to a secretary of state ; but in near me, whether, in point of form and the hands of a secretary of the Treasury precedent, instead of discharging the order it is truly dangerous. Pensions to indivifor referring the King's message to the duals in reward for services performed, committee of supply, it would not be more confer equal credit on the donor and reproper to instruct the committee on the ceiver ; but pensions paid by a secretary two important points of the message, the of the Treasury to we know not whom, paying his Majesty's debts, and the addic and we know not for what, threatens the tion to the standing revenue of the crown. constitution, and ought to alarm this If his lordship and the House adopt that House. But to talk of accounts is bemode, I shall then move, “ That it be an come truly ridiculous. You addressed for instruction to the said committee, that, the proper officers to lay the accounts bebefore they proceed to consider of his fore you; and what was the answer? Sir, I will read you from the Journals, a me about 1742 or 1743, the period at which morandum at the bottom of the main ac- the average expenditure of George the count: « The deputy auditor of the Ex- 2nd should be struck. He saw several chequer having repeatedly declared the gentlemen present, who remembered how impossibility of making out an account of much more valuable money was 35 years the Civil List expences, which incurred ago than now; and he trusted to their and became due at that office for above candour, and that of every gentleman who eight years; therefore the lords of the heard him, to form an equitable estimate Treasury directed that the same should be in his own mind of what would be a promade out in the best manner possible from portionate augmentation to the increase the entries in the Treasury books.--The of expenditure, arising from an increase treasurer of the chamber, having informed of the necessaries of life. His lordship their lordships that, from want of mate- presumed, that the hon. gentleman (Mr. rials in his office, no account can be made Wilkes) when he supposed that the maup of the charge during the same time, jorities in that House were created by the the above charge inserted in this account, increased influence of the crown, did not is therefore the amount of the several mean to conclude, that each individual sums craved by the then treasurers of the who composed those majorities was bribed chamber for those years, and which were or influenced in the vote he gave. That, actually paid upon their memorials to the he would venture to say, was not the in

Treasury. The master of the horse not tention of the hon. gentleman: such a having any accounts in his office, to enable proposition maintained without reserve, him to make out the charge there, the would cut up by the roots all pretensions same hath been done in respect to the ex- to free enquiry, or conduct arising from pence of that office, as in that of the trea- opinion. The hon. gentleman thought surer of the chamber. The other charges differently from him; that was no just are taken from the accounts transmitted foundation for charging the hon. gentle. to the Treasury from the several other man with being influenced by improper offices abovementioned. As it is impos- motives. On the other hand, he, and sible to make an annual account from the those who thought with him, might act 1st Jan. to the 31st January, therefore this upon principle, and not, as the hon. gen. account is made for eight complete years, tleman termed it, be influenced by a temcommencing the 1st January, 1761." porary pension. As to the objection urged

You may by this see the effects of your so warmly against the account relative to application. All tell you of the impossi- the disbursements in the office of the Treability to give you an account, for all are surer of the Chamber, not being accomequally unable or unwilling to give you a panied with vouchers in one period, nor full, fair, and satisfactory account. The even the sums specified during another Treasury call on them likewise, but for period; that he said might be explained once call in vain, and then that treasury satisfactorily, by repeating a single fact, that has expended the secret service which was, that his predecessors in office money, that has paid the secret pensions, had taken

away all the papers, which congives you such accounts as best suits their tained the information now so earnestly pleasure ; then can there be, Sir, a wonder sought. So the case stood, particularly ihat the accounts are deemed by all unin as to that of the master of the horse, and telligible :

so in every other account, as far as the Lord North contradicted several of the objection could be fairly maintained or facts, and controverted several of the de- supported. On the whole, therefore, the ductions drawn and stated by the two hon. charge of the accounts being defective, gentlemen. He contended, that the late mutilated, or imperfect, must fall to the king’s revenue, including the 450,0001. ground. The Treasury had used all the granted by parliament to him in 1747, ex. industry in their power to satisfy the ceeded the average income received by his House. They had ordered the books to present Majesty, since his accession, even be minutely examined, and the warrants taking in the 513,0001. given in 1769; to be compared with the books. If some and if the increased value of the necessa- of the vouchers were mislaid, lost, or taken ries and luxuries of life, and other do away, the Treasury-board could not be mestic circumstances were taken into the blamed. They looked for every document account,"he insisted, that 900,0001. a year, that seemed necessary to explain the acat present, was not equal to 800,000l. count; they produced such as they could


obtain ; and if any were wanting, no blame whether the not obtaining it was owing to lay on the board; for they had exerted the scantiness of the supply, and not to themselves to procure a satisfactory ac- the mismanagement of what was given, it count, and if they failed in any particular was proper to see how other kings had to afford that satisfaction they were so de- maintained the royal dignity; what their sirous of giving, they had faithfully dis- charge, and what their incomes were. For charged their duty; for they had given this purpose, he took a comparative view the best account the nature of the expen- of the income and stile of living of his diture, and the manner of keeping the ac- sent Majesty, of George the 2nd, and of counts, would admit of.

king William. That George the 2nd had Mr. Burke was severe upon the noble a more extensive family for a great part of lord. He said, that the time of bringing his reign; that his income was not farger, in this demand was full of indecency and nor so large, as that of the present king; impropriety; that when we were going to that he appeared in a more princely mantax every gentleman's house in England, ner than the ministers suffered the present even to the smallest domestic accommoda- King to live. That king William had but tion, and to accumulate burthen upon bur- | 700,000l. a year, yet that all his expences then, nothing but a confidence in the ser- were great and royal ; and if it should be vility of the House, and an experience in objected that all means of living in splenour carelessness, with regard to all affairs, dour were cheaper in that age, he answercould make the ministry desperate enough ed frst by doubting the fact, and saying, to tell us, that in such a time we had not that though some of the same articles provided sufficiently for the splendour of might be cheaper, others were much the crown. The main argument on which dearer. Next he said, that this argument the demand stood, was the experience of of the price of things could serve no purthe whole reign, that 800,000l. was not pose in the present question, because king sufficient for the Civil List expences. To William not only did more, but paid more ; this ground of argument he objected; be that his charges in all articles, in which cause if it were once admitted, the pro- royal dignity properly consists, were higher priety of every man's practice would be than the correspondent articles of the judged by the practice itself; a man's ex. King's expences; larger not only in effect travagance would become the measure of but in account. That king William was his supply, and because he had actually censured for being expensive; he was so ; spent a great deal, he ought in reason to but he was magnificent. He attained his be furnished with a great deal to spend. object, which appeared in the number and This would be to establish a principle of stateliness of his buildings, his furniture, public profusion, which could never cease pictures, &c. King George the 2nd was to operate, whilst we had a shilling to accused of parsimony, not wholly without spend. It would even make it the inte- reason; but he attained his object; he was rest of ministers to be prodigal, since their rich. His present Majesty, to whom no extravagance, instead of lesseņing their one imputes either extravagance or peincome, would be the certain means of nury, is, by the mismanagement of his miincreasing their estate.

nisters, neither magnificent nor wealthy. Having refuted this kind of argument; King William's magnificence was useful to taking for granted the very point in ques- the public; it added to the splendour of tion, which was, whether the ministers had the crown and the dignity of the nation, managed well or ill; whether they had and we have the monuments of it still, incurred the debt properly or improperly, King George the 2nd's economy added he said, that the only way of judging of 170,0001. to his Majesty's Civil List at his this matter, was to proceed as wise men accession. He did more and better. King ought to do in all their private affairs, George the 2nd maintained a year's war namely to try whether the object obtained in Germany against the whole power of was equal to the consideration paid. The France, in a quarrel wholly British, at his object to be obtained was the royal dig, own expence. He spent about a million nity; the consideration paid was 800,0001. sterling for this nation, and after all he a year. The sum has been paid ; has the died not poor, but left a large sum, beobject been attained ? Is the court great, sides a surplus of Civil List cash to his presplendid, and magnificent ? To know whe- sent Majesty. From all these circumther the royal dignity might have been stances he concluded that the debt in. attained for that sum, and to discover curred could not be for the royal dignity,


but for purposes not fit to be avowed by sent situation, but did not agree that it ministry, and therefore very fit to be in- was a sufficient reason against the motion. quired into by this House.

But on the contrary, that rendering our Mr. Rice explained what had been men- sovereign respectable, might prove a tioned by lord North, relative to his pre- means of relieving us from that situation, decessors in office taking the papers away, as it must give an idea of the vigour and which were necessary to vouch the first resources of this country, which could not four years of the accounts which came fail to have a tendency to prevent hostile from the office of the Treasurer of the attempts upon the part of our enemies, Chamber. He said the warrants from the and strike the minds of our revolted coloTreasury, with the accounts of sums issued, nies with terror. It must therefore prove were vouchers sufficient to shew the faith a salutary measure, even in this moment ful disposition of the money. That, al- of distress, to discharge the arrears upon lowing some of the articles in the account the Civil List. did not appear so well authenticated as With regard to increasing the revenue could be wished, or that a saving might he look it for granted, that the only objecbe made ; in either event, it would be tion to it was, that by putting too much proper to go into the committee, because power into the hands of the crown it might he believed no gentleman present would endanger the liberty of the subject, and say, that the King's debts ought not to be be prejudicial to our national happiness. paid ; they were the debts of the public, That one great ingredient in the happiness and no matter how they were incurred, of a nation, was the respect it held as a they must be paid by the public; and if nation. That it yielded to internal freethe motion for discharging the order, was dom alone, and that this latter blessing intended to make way for a committee of gained additional value as the means of enquiry, that committee might be moved procuring the former. That in order to after the committee of supply had come to secure that respect which rested upon nathe first resolution, to discharge the debt tional independence as its basis, no necesalready incurred. He affirmed, from his sity should be created that could make it own knowledge, and by every thing he desirable in any degree to barter that incould learn from others, that all possible dependence for a temporary ease and adfrugality had been practised, in every vantage.

That such necessity had in branch of expenditure of the Civil former times suggested to Charles the 2nd List revenue; but that some of them his dangerous connections with France, the were notwithstanding on the increase, and ignominy and disgrace of which might were likely to augment instead of dimi- have been saved had his parliament been nish; and if to this were added, a numer- less rigidly parsimonious. That the emi. ous increasing family, several of whom, in nent virtues of our present monarch hapa few years, would call for separate estab- pily secured us from every such idea, so lishments, he did not see how the House far as it depended upon his steady and could, with any degree of consistency, or earnest desire to maintain our respect and regard for the honour and dignity of the independence: but we could not always crown, refuse the augmentation, which he depend upon the minister who might have understood it was the intention of the the immediate management of affairs. To ministers to ask. The papers on the table secure us therefore against the machina. already shewed, that the average expence tions of wicked ministers, we should render of maintaining the houshold, and defraying the private revenue of the crown equal to the expences of the civil government, was, its necessities. When he said this, he did on an average, since the present accession, not mean to assert any thing prejudicial to about 870,0001. a year ; and that the the honour of the present minister. He amount of the duties relinquished by his had upon former occasions animadverted Majesty, at that period, was pretty nearly upon the conduct of the noble lord: they equal to the expenditure; that probably | were public animadversions upon a public those duties would still continue to in conduct, which he made because he felt crease ; so that taking the matter in either them just, and which he would never hea retrospective view, or in its consequences, sitate to repeat when similar circumstances the nation, though the revenue should be should produce a similar conduct. He augmented 100,0001. would, on the whole, was convinced, that the noble lord was too be found to be no loser.

much a gentleman, and too much an Eng. Mr. Adam sincerely regretted our pre- lishman, to entertain any idea prejudicial

to the independence of this country; but recognized at the Revolution, and entered we were not always to see the noble lord in into a history of the Civil List from that the place he now filled; and when another period downwards, to prove that to agree should come without the same virtue, and with the motion of the day, was to follow the same talents, we might see the dis- up the idea of the revolutionists: and congraceful days of Charles the 2nd renewed, cluded, by saying, that if our national reand another Dunkirk sold to relieve the spect was to be preserved, and our interembarrassments of a scanty revenue.

nal freedom to be rendered more secure He next stated an opinion which he by an addition to the revenue of the crown, professed had at first sight a paradoxical we ought cheerfully to unite in a measure appearance, but he thought the paradox that would give comfort and dignity to a would vanish upon a state of the argu- prince so bighly virtuous and respectable. ment. It was that increasing the revenue Mr. T. Townshend assured Mr. Adam of the Civil List would add security to the that he had too much respect for his perliberty of the subject. That prerogative son and his talents to presume to treat his having been done away at the Revolution, arguments with ridicule or with levity. influence, it was now thought, had taken He hoped, however, that his expressing its place, and was the disease which threat- his surprise at the novelty of the argu. ened our constitution. The way, there. ments would not be construed into disfore, to prevent the evils of influence, was respect: and if, upon his bare recital of to keep it from acting, or allowing it to act them, the House should receive them the in as few instances as possible. If we could second time in the same manner as they prevent its operation in ten instances, by had done the first, he trusted that recepadmitting it in one, we might by this means tion would not be attributed to any levity award the blow, and perhaps destroy the in the person who repeated them. He disease that threatened our liberty. It owned that his dull imagination would was, therefore, better to give an adequate never have enabled him to conceive that a revenue to the crown, than to suffer re- time when we were engaged in an enorpeated applications to parliament for the mously expensive war, was the hour of all payment of arrears ; which, by being re- others the most proper to give away a large peated every two or three years, would sum of public money; or that such a conmake the importance of the grant dwindle duct would impress our enemies with fear, into the same insignificance that attended and that such profusion would give them a the common and most trivial operations of higher opinion either of our strength or of parliament; and that this day would cease our wisdom. to be, as it now was, a day of terror to the He could not help agreeing with the minister. He said, there was a great and hon. gentleman in his apprehensions of marked distinction to be attended to in the increase of the influence of the crown. this argument, between the Civil List or He thought with him, that it threatened revenue of the crown, and the revenue of the annihilation of any balance or proporparliament. That distinctions of this na. tion between the different branches of the iure were essential to the existence of the legislature. But he had always supposed constitution, as they steered us between the that influence to arise from the great rehorrors of despotism and the evils of a re- venues and emoluments which were in the public. The first revenue was subject of disposal of the crown. He therefore imacalculation, and an adequate sum ought to gined, that an increase of influence, rather be fixed, that applications for arrears might than a decrease of it, was likely to be the be avoided: the other could not be matter consequence of an increase of those reveof calculation, at any distant period of nues. He was so bigotted to these opitime, as it altered with the necessity of nions, that he had found himself inclined the times. Besides, it was that revenue to doubt, for once, the solidity of the rea, which supported our fleet, maintained our soning of the hon. gentleman. He could army, paid the interest of our national not help thinking that his talents had a debt, the revenue upon which our liberty, little failed him. He was at first at a loss dignity, and independence rested. That to what cause he should attribute it, but if any minister should dare to encourage recollecting the enthusiastic terms in which an idea that could render that revenue in the hon. gentleman mentioned a lately dedependent of parliament, no punishment ceased, learned, and ingenious author could be too bad for his crime. He (Mr. Hume) he could not help thinking then shewed that this distinction had been that the gentleman was ambitious of being [VOL. XIX. ]


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