the fortune of war; that every thing respecting the charge of inhumanity, or cruelty, or unsoldierlike treatment, was merely a vague report; that he had read every thing published on the occasion, and would assert, that not a single paper or letter of authenticity, had appeared to justify any harsh expression against the commander in chief of the army which capitulated at Saratoga. Mr. Wilkes. I am on this occasion merely the echo of the public voice. I have made no personal attack on the commander in chief, nor undertaken to support any charge against him. Measures, and not persons, I desired minutely to investigate; and the epithets which I employed, were to the facts and the events. I suppose it will be admitted, that the convention in 1777 at Saratoga was more disgraceful than the capitulation at Closter Severn in 1757, because the troops there kept their arms. I have not proceeded, Sir, at any time on vague report. I referred to authentic letters published by order of the Congress, and to other state papers of unquestionable authority. The hon. general has given us a good deal of the ancient Roman history, but overlooked two or three important questions relating to very modern transactions, and our own history. I wish, Sir, an answer to the charge I have repeatedly read of the burning villages and houses, and the wanton destruction and devastation of property, during the progress of the northern army under his command. One word, Sir, on what is stated by the hon. gentleman, as an event in the Roman history similar to the affair of Saratoga. A considerable Roman army was shut up by the Samnites at the Furce Caudine, obliged to capitulate, and with their general to pass under the yoke. So far is retailed out to us, but the sequel of the transaction is not mentioned. I shall give it briefly to the House. Early in the following year, the dictator Cornelius Lentulus put himself at the head of the same Roman legions, and gave the Samnites a total overthrow. It was no article of the capitulation at Caudium, that the same troops should not serve again against the same enemy. The Samnite general, Pontius, was the very next year after the affair of the Caudine Forks, with the whole Samnite army, forced by the Romans to pass under the yoke, unarmed, with only one garment each, that the former ignominy might be retaliated by the same troops on the same enemy. The Roman spirit soon made a conquest of the whole country of the Samnites, and afterwards of all Italy and the world. Lord George Gordon. I hope this very melancholy account of the sufferings of the King's army under the command of that unfortunate general will at length impress parliament with a due sense of the rashness of their proceedings, and prove a timely warning to his Majesty and to the people, that the most accomplished generals, at the head of the completest armies, when employed by arbitrary power to reduce mankind to unconditional submission, are frustrated in their wicked attempts by the heavenly interposition of the Divine Providence. It has pleased God to support the zealous assertors of civil and religious liberty in their just rights; and by crowning their resistance with success, he has, through his infinite mercy, averted those evils from America, which the violent proceedings of this kingdom, both in church and state, have so manifestly threatened. The experience of a few years has shewed to the whole world the justness of their apprehensions, and the historians of this war will be puzzled to decide, whether the governors of the church, or the governors of the state, have been most eager, bloody, and oppressive in their pursuit after American subjection. The ambitious prelates in the House of Lords have dared to countenance his Majesty in preferring Popery when he had it in his power to have established Protestantism, and parliament has confirmed it annually, by not complying with the pious petitions of the Protestant inhabitants of Canada, who have devoutly, religiously, and constitutionally implored the repeal of that obnoxious Act, the Quebec Bill, as establishing the government of their country upon the narrow basis of French law, and militating in the highest degree against the glorious constitution of this kingdom. Those same high prelates have countenanced his Majesty in employing the savages-heathens without grace or mercy, to carry desolation and destruction amongst the presbyterians and independents in America. And that most horrible massacre of Miss Mac Ray's, will remain an indelible stain on the religion and humanity of Great Britain in after ages, when queen Mary's massacre of the Protestants in England, and the persecu tions of the presbyterians in Scotland by king Charles and their predecessor arch bishop Laud, of infamous memory, shall be done away and forgotten. I am very happy at the same time to be able to make two most goodly exceptions in the persons of the right reverend bishops of Peterborough and St. Asaph, who have done honour to religion and their country, through the pious course of their own lives, and by their generosity and lovingkindness to their brethren in America. I beg to add, that from my attachment to his Majesty's person and family, and for the love I bear my fellow-subjects, their lives and liberties, I hope there is no truth in what has been of late very much reported about town, I mean the promotion of certain characters. For I am of opinion, that if his Majesty can be so ill-ad. vised, so far misled, and so deluded, as to continue any longer in his council, or to confer any honours, places, pensions, profit, or emolument, on those unhappy persons who have wickedly attempted to reduce the colonies to unconditional submission, his Majesty will as justly, as necessarily, and as certainly lose the confidence and support of the people of Great Britain, as he has clearly and evident ly thirteen flourishing provinces, and three millions of the bravest, most reli. gious, and virtuous subjects of the crown. I shall vote for the enquiry, as amended by the hon. member on the floor, in compliance to the wishes of the unfortunate general who is so very seriously interested in the event. The House divided upon Mr. Fox's Amendment: So it passed in the negative. Then the main question being again proposed, it passed, after debate, in the negative. Altercation between Mr. Temple Luttrell and Lord George Germain. In the course of the debate on the main question, Mr. Temple Luttrell drew a comparison between the conduct of the officer and of his minister. In former times, he said, it had been the custom of Britons to give praise and thanks to such of their officers and servants as exerted their strenuous and zealous efforts for the public weal, even if those efforts were not crowned with success; but now-a-days they be stowed praise only in proportion to the listlessness and inattention with which these servants performed their duty. The noble lord, said he, in the blue ribbon (lord North) disclaims being dictator whenever the mismanagement of govern ment comes under the consideration of parliament. Whether Great Britain is prosperous or defeated, it is none of his plan, none of his act. In every thing essential to the greatness or happiness of the nation, we find the noble lord timid; he is not first minister, he is only the instrument of the privy council; he has but one humble vote there, and cannot be accountable to the nation for the folly of the plans he undertakes to recommend to his sovereign. And should the plan strike at the liberties of his country, at the very root of the constitution, he is then but the echo of parliament. In what is the noble lord daring and enterprising? He prides himself but in one act founded on his own resolution, judgment and integrity; he asks credit in parliament but for one ornament added to the crown, one benefit to the state; that act of his own consists in having fixed on a crisis of impending ruin and calamity unknown in the annals of our history before, and which the firm spirit and exalted wisdom of a Chatham might have found difficult to cope with; then did he seize the glorious opportunity to recommend to his sovereign a war minister, whose public incapacitation for every vigorous xertion of mind, whose disgrace at the court of George the 2nd, was founded on the most decisive censure of a court martial, whose loss of the nation's confidence, and his own character, is a public record. What had the nation to expect from his councils? What plan of his, since in his office, dare he expose to the public eye, and say it has succeeded? Why, then, should we give him a partial acquittal to the prejudice of a gallant officer, whose only crime has been avowedly that he was too zealous, too brave, too enterprising, too anxious for the good of his country, had strictly obeyed his orders, and done all that British valour was capable of, to carry the minister's plan into execution. Had he, instead of that, receded from his colours, disobeyed the commands of his superiors, and hid himself from danger, he might have had pretensions to one noble lord's patronage, (lord North) and to the other's (lord G. Germain) dignities and emoluments. General Burgoyne asks a fair and open trial, the man who shrinks from it, and avails | should prefer being committed, to giving himself of an unjust, partial acquittal, must be guilty. Lord George Germain said, that he never was personal in the House, never by any conduct of his merited such an attack; he despised that hon. member, but would level himself with his wretched character and malice; old as he was, he would meet that fighting gentleman, and be revenged. He was interrupted by a cry of Order in the House, and general confusion. The Speaker said, if the House would support him, he would keep order. A cry of Chair, chair. Lord North admitted, that lord G. Germain had been out of order, what fell from him had nothing to do with the question. It was a personal attack on an individual, and therefore out of order. up the privilege of parliament, and promising to take no notice of a personal attack, not founded upon public opinion, upon any sentence, upon any trial, and hearing epithets made use of against him, which was meant as personal as they appeared; he should give no other answer, and abide by the decision of the House. Several members rose, and a dispute ensued, whether lord George had made sufficient apologies or not, and a motion was made about eleven o'clock, by Mr. Buller, "That_the_hon. Temple Luttrell be immediately taken into the custody of the Serjeant at Arms." Disputes continued till past twelve, in which sir James Lowther, sir G. Yonge, Mr. Howard, and others, were of opinion that the privilege of parliament would suffer, if Mr. Luttrell was committed upon the present facts before the House; and drew a distinction between public and private charges. Mr. Buller, Mr. Onslow, and many members on that side, thought lord George could not, in honour, make further apologies, and were therefore for committing Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Luttrell stood up, and said that be Mr. Luttrell said, he would not be bullied out of the privilege of a member of that House; he had a right to speak his sentiments publicly and fully on a public character. The sentence of the courtmartial, in the reign of George the 2nd, was a public record, relative to a man in a public post of trust, which required spirit, zeal, abilities, and integrity, and many es-ing again informed by the oldest members sential qualities, as requisite in a war minister as in a general. He had not alluded to the noble lord's private vices or virtues, and if he could be conceived out of order, as to the question, it could not imply that public charge of the minister was a private personality. Mr. Luttrell took an opportunity, in the confusion of debate, to attempt to get out of the House, to avoid being compelled to promise not to resent lord George Germain's personal abuse of him, but the Speaker gave orders to the Serjeant at Arms, to stop Mr. Luttrell, and bring him to his seat. The Speaker then said, that words of heat having dropped from two honourable members, in the course of the debate, he must require them to stand up in their places, and give the House an assurance that the matter should go no farther. Lord G. Germain said, if he had said any thing that was improper to be said in the House, he was sorry for it, and hoped the House would excuse it. He acknowledged he was out of order. Mr. Luttrell was then called upon. He said, if after being insulted for doing his duty, he was to be committed for delivering the sentence of George the 2nd, he [VOL. XIX. ] of parliament from every quarter of the House, that no public business whatever could go on till this altercation was settled, and being resolved to abide, at all events, by his privilege of parliament, he should beg leave to second the motion for his immediate commitment; that by his absence the House might proceed on a question of great importance to every military man, and to the whole nation; and that as parliament had but a few days more to sit before its prorogation, and still more weighty affairs of state remained for their discussion, it was necessary to discharge this dispute, he would make no apology for public severity of language, but an apology he must seek for personal insult to himself. Upon this, Mr. Luttrell was, between twelve and one o'clock in the morning, going to be taken into the custody of the Serjeant at 'Arms, when Lord George Germain rose to make a second apology, which was fairly and particularly addressed to the hon. gentleman, for certain improper words, which the noble lord had addressed to him, in the warmth of debate, and from feeling himself hurt by the charges stated against him. Mr. Luttrell then said, that now the [1 H] House were satisfied that sufficient apology | reason for excluding strangers. This he was made for the personality they had suspected before to have been their moheard spoken against him, he should, out tives, notwithstanding the many disguises of respect to the House, comply with their they had thrown upon it, and the avowal injunctions, that it should go no further; determined him in his conduct. He knew and begged leave once more to observe, it to be necessary to the existence of the that what was said by him of the noble lord constitution, that the people should be acwas meant as public matter, not as private quainted intimately with the conduct of abuse or enmity. their representatives. The news-papers were the only channels of conveyance, and he declared for his own part, that if such a measure was adopted, he would dare to inform his constituents of the proceedings of parliament. The previous question was put on Mr. Vyner's motion, and carried without a division. ADMISSION OF STRANGERS INTO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS-PUBLICATION OF THE DEBATES.] May 27. Sir P. J. Debate on Mr. Hartley's Motions for Clerke observed, that the members of that putting a Stop to the War in AmericaHouse were very improperly treated in the And against the Prorogation of ParliaHouse of Lords, by being associated with ment.] May 27. Mr. David Hartley said: every stranger that was promiscuously in- The motion which I shall offer to you totroduced either by the peers or the door- day requires little explanation, and I hope keepers. They were obliged to stand, the House will think that it requires no and run the danger of having their pockets apology. If I thought that it could possipicked, as had in more than one instance bly admit of any debate, that the House occurred this session. Considering how before their prorogation should make a very differently the members of that House sort of recapitulation of the objects which were treated in this, he thought it became have been adopted as the ultimate end of them to assert their dignity, and establish all our labours during this session, I might a perfect equality between them. The trouble you with some arguments to induce House unanimously concurred with the your compliance. But as the system of hon. member, and hoped that in the be-conciliating America by those reasonable ginning of next session it would be a matter for their consideration. Mr. Temple Luttrell expressed his satisfaction that the standing order, which had been exerted the day before to exclude strangers from the gallery, was again relaxed. That circumstance induced him to depart from the intention he had otherways formed, of putting every standing order that existed, no matter how troublesome, into execution. He considered it as the right of his constituents, that they should have admission to see the proceedings of their representatives, and whenever that right was invaded he would, if he could not prevent, at least make them repent it. concessions which we, on this side of the House, have been many years pleading for, has now been adopted by the administration themselves, I could wish to fix the sense of the House and of the public to perseverance in the same disposition, and that they should publish to the whole world that the change in their conduct has not arisen from any temporary caprice, but from a sedate and considerate review of past measures respecting America, and a firm conviction of their injustice and folly, thus producing, as the fruit of that conviction, a total reversal of them. It certainly may fall out, that the concessions now offered to America, may not be received as they would have been some time ago, when we, on this side of the House, so Lord Ongley complained bitterly that the debates of that House should be per-strenuously contended that some offers of mitted to appear in the news-papers. He saw them daily misrepresented, as party opinion, favour, or disgust, directed; and it was for that reason that he wished the gallery to be shut against strangers. He would be happy if an act of parliament was made totally to prevent the publication of their debates. Mr. Temple Luttrell replied, that now indeed they spoke out, and avowed their concession and accommodation should be made to them: that it is possible that this may happen, will be allowed by those who are most sanguine in their expectations of success from the commissioners. For my own part, I am perfectly clear, that their voyage will be totally fruitless. The terms which you now offer might have served to have brought on a treaty of accommodation if they had been offered doubt or suspicion in the minds of any 1 persons in America of their sincere desire for the restoration of peace, which they value and prefer above all other conside rations whatsoever; and for which purpose they will be ready to co-operate with his Majesty in any further conciliatory measures which may be necessary to give efficacy to their intentions; and that it may be known at the same time to all foreign powers, that the Commons of Great Britain stand always prepared, upon all just and necessary occasions, to resent every insult, and to repel every attack upon the dignity of his Majesty's crown and upon the national honour." Sir George Savile seconded the motion. Lord North heartily concurred in the motion. Mr. Grenville thought the words "any further conciliatory measures" were very loose, and might be construed to include the independency of America, which he was not for allowing. He must therefore wish that either those words might be totally left out, or others inserted, restraining this approbation to such measures as were consonant to the act appointing commissioners. some time ago; for instance, when the noble lord at the head of the Treasury, of fered what was called his conciliatory proposition, but a fallacious indecision has accompanied every measure that has been taken towards the recovery of the affections of America by any proceedings of justice or moderation. For these reasons principally it is, that I offer this motion to you to-day, to signify, that you are heartily bent upon accomplishing the great object of reconciliation; that you value peace above every other consideration; and if any rubs should happen in your present plan, to declare to all the world, that you will be ready to co-operate with his Majesty in any further conciliatory measures which may be necessary to give efficacy to your pacific intentions. I therefore move," That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty to represent to his Majesty, that the great and important events which have come to the public notice since the commencement of the present session of parliament, both with respect to the state of the American war, and the conduct of the court of France towards Great Britain, are of the most alarming nature, and call for the most speedy and prudent counsels to put a stop to the progress of the war in America, as well as the most vigorous and decisive measures to repel any hostile attempts from France. To assure his Majesty that his declaration at the beginning of the present session, That he should consider the restoration of peace in America as the greatest happiness of his life, and the greatest glory of his reign-is perfectly consonant to the dispositions of his faithful Commons: and tha this further declaration to them in the course of the present session, of his determination to maintain and uphold the power and reputation of this country in respect to all foreign nationsis not less satisfactory to them, as the national honour must ever be as dear to them as it can be to his Majesty himself. To represent to his Majesty, that those two points of restoring peace in America, and of maintaining the national honour in the sight of all foreign powers, are the nearest to the hearts of his faithful Commons, and that they will never relax from pursuing them with sincerity and ardour till they shall be fully and effectually accomplished. That his faithful Commons beg leave to express these sentiments in the most public manner to his Majesty, with this view, that there may remain no Earl Nugent was for having the motion negatived as it stood. Lord Newhaven opposed the motion; saying, he would never agree to it, as he suspected independence to America lurking in some corner of it. That he had supported government to the best of his abilities, with a view to recover America from its unhappy delusion. That he had never wished to enslave America, but ardently wished they should continue subjects to Great Britain as free as himself, with the fullest exercise of all the rights of the British constitution; but that he would never give a vote to render them independent, or suffer them, while the. power of this country existed, to extort it by rebellion. He would be bold to say, that it was not in the power of the King, Lords, and Commons, to give independence to one part of the British dominions to the prejudice of the rest. He lamented, that there was an end to all government in this country; that the laws of the land stood still, and that the constitution reeled to and fro like a drunken man. Sir George Savile jocosely observed, that it was no wonder the constitution should reel, seeing that our administration had been drunk these four years. Sir W. Meredith said, that whether or |