reputation, and they would do much more injury by serving the public badly, than the difference of expence. He had seen instances of it in the contracts of the East India Company, and those of so fatal a nature, that he could not agree to the motion. Gentlemen unacquainted with business, and of little consequence in the eye of the public, might move for reformations in every department of govern ment. Mr. T. Townshend called him to order, and said, a gentleman rises in his seat, who holds a contract himself from government, and in the assembly of the nation dares to call the mover of a question, one of the most independent members of the House, a man of no consequence. He would give that hon. gentleman to understand, that the gentleman referred to, in better times than the present, merited a seat in that House, while others ought to stand at the bar. Mr. Wombwell resented the insinuation, and after explaining what he had said, added, that the hon. gentleman had not made a pertinent, but a very impertinent conclusion from it. He explained his own contract to the House. Earl Nugent observed, that the hon. gentleman had meant no affront by the expression. The House would remember he was a merchant, and a man of no consequence' was a mercantile phrase, and meant no more than a man unknown upon 'Change. [This created a laugh, and quieted the House.] Sir W. Gordon condemned both sides of the House, panegyrised both sides of the House, sided with neither side of the House. He had come into parliament with a determination to be a patient hearer; his patience was exhausted, and he was determined to turn speaker. The conduct of the House was intolerable, he knew not where to place himself. If on the ministry side, he should be called by the opposition a pensioner; if on the opposition, he should be called by the ministry a factious man. The conduct of the House rendered his opinion of mankind day by day worse; and yet he believed both parties voted from a principle of honesty, and a conviction of rectitude. Mr. Byng observed, that the crowded appearance of the House, no doubt, gave the ministerial phalanx ground for hope, that they would not be again defeated in this favourite point. He knew what miserable arts had been used to collect the ranks, but he trusted they would be a third time routed. The Treasury message cards had been circulated upon this occasion with rather too much notoriety; even the hour of appointment had come to the ears of people not called on the occasion. I twas cautiously done, however, to mention the hour, that the minister might not again, if he chose to oppose numbers for want of argument to the question, be worsted. He hoped the Bill would pass. Lord George Gordon. I rise to declare my happiness in concurring with the very respectable baronet on the floor, who with a laudable zeal for the credit of the House, has this day moved the commitment of the Contractors' Bill. It meets with my hearty approbation, as being one of the many steps absolutely necessary to be taken towards regaining the confidence and respect of the people to the privileges of parlia ment. I confess, at the same time, it is an Herculean labour the hon. member has undertaken: for I think the cleansing king Augeas's stable from the filth and dirt of 3,000 oxen, for the space of thirtynine years, in the course of a day, was a mere play and pastime, compared to the arduous task of restoring this House to its ancient and original purity. Though the hon. baronet is not quite so strong as Hercules, he is supported in his endeavour of to-day by truth, justice, and good policy: which, added to his own abilities, with that great respect which every member in this House, as well as his countrymen at large, entertain for his intentions to promote the welfare of the public, will, I hope, induce a very great majority to approve his present proposition. Sir, this dunghill of contracts has given an ill air to our whole proceedings. It has got wind abroad, and proves very of fensive to the public nostrils; our constituents begin to smell a rat; they nose us in the lobby, and call us (with more truth, I am afraid, than politeness) taylors and shoemakers; colliers and cabbage-salters, potatoe-forestallers,sour-crout-makers, and swine contractors. Our mace is tarnished with this dunghill; our authority choaked, and the dignity, reputation, and fair name of the Commons are smothered, and sinking in porter and salted-cabbage, shoes, sour-crout, and potatoes. Foh, Mr. Speaker! what a nauseous banquet have the Treasury invited their friends from their pleasant gardens and villas in the country to partake of in the month of May! An hon. member (Mr. A. Bacon) one of the تو Sir Cecil Wray - most ancient contractors within these walls, and, as I am told, a considerable merchant in the city, has mentioned that contracting in this House was the very spirit of trade. So I believe it is; and the noble lord in the blue ribbon may possibly find, when the day of trouble and adversity shall arrive, that that very spirit of profit, which induced Inkle to sell Yarico, may tempt some few steady friends of his prosperity to contract for, and furnish out the black cloth and scaffolding at their unhappy patron's execution. Mr. Serjeant Adair said, he was certain, that among the merchants of London, many might be found as adequate to the execution of a contract as any member of that House; yet he was sensible, that in case of a competition he who had a seat would be preferred; and this created a fair conclusion, that contracts were be neficial to the minister. He would wish that a clause, however, were inserted into the Bill, preserving the present contractors from its tendency; they had made their treaties before its existence, and it ought not to be of an ex post facto nature. He recurred to what a noble lord said in the outset of the debate, that pensioners and placemen ought to be excluded, as well as contractors. He from his heart thought so, and was sincerely of opinion, that there never would be an independent House of Commons until such an event should take place. Governor Pownall was for going into a committee; because the sense of the House had already been twice taken upon it, and a respectable majority having both times appeared in favour of it, he thought there was an indecency upon a small majority to refuse sending the Bill to a committee. The question being put, That the Speaker do now leave the chair, the House divided: 113 115 Byng NÓES {Mr. George Onslow Sir Grey Cooper So it passed in the negative. It was then moved, "That this House will, upon this day two months, resolve itself into a committee upon the said Bill." The House divided: YEAS Tellers. 109 So it was resolved in the affirmative. The Bill was consequently lost. PROCEEDINGS IN THE COMMONS ON THE IRISH TRADE BILLS.*] April 2. "The distresses of Ireland had long been an object of regret, even with many of those who had no particular interest in that country. Without entering into the causes from which these originated, it will be sufficient to observe, that they had grown to their present alarming and deplorable state under the unhappy consequences of the American war; so that the country became unequal to the support of that great establishment, with which it had (perhaps too inconsiderately) encumbered itself, when the flourishing state of all other parts of the British empire, had diffused a considerable of affairs became now so notorious, and the degree of prosperity even thither. This state consequences were said to be so urgent, that the ministers were at length convinced of the necessity of paying attention to them; and of affording some immediate satisfaction to the feelings, if not an entire redress to the grievances of that people." Annual Register. throw much light on the subject of these Bills: Two LETTERS from Mr. Burke, to Gentle The following LETTERS will be found to men in the City of Bristol, on the Bills depending in Parliament relative to the Trade of Ireland, 1778. To Samuel Span, esq. Master of the Society of Merchants Adventurers of Bristol. Sir; I am honoured with your letter of the 13th, in answer to mine, which accompanied the Resolutions of the House relative to the trade of Ireland. You will be so good as to present my best respects to the Society, and to assure them, that it was altogether unnecessary to remind me of the interest of the constituents. I have never regarded any thing else, since I had a seat in parliament. Having frequently and maturely considered that interest, and stated it to myself in almost every point of view, I am persuaded, that, under the present circumstances, I cannot more effectually pursue it, than by giving all the support in my power to the propositions which I lately transmitted to the hall. The fault I find in the scheme is, that it falls extremely short of that liberality in the commercial system, which, I trust, will one day be adopted. If I had not considered the present resolutions, merely as preparatory to better things, and as a means of shewing experimentally, that justice to others is not always folly to ourselves, I should have con113 tented myself with receiving them in a cold and silent acquiescence. Separately considered, Earl Nugent moved, "That this House will, upon Tuesday morning next, resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, to take into consideration the several acts of parliament relating to the Trade and Commerce of Ireland." He observed that they are matters of no very great importance. But they aim, however imperfectly, at a right principle. I submit to the restraint to appease prejudice: I accept the enlargement, so far as it goes, as the result of reason and of sound policy. We cannot be insensible of the calamities which have been brought upon this nation by an obstinate adherence to narrow and restrictive plans of government. I confess, I cannot prevail on myself to take them up, precisely at a time, when the most decisive experience has taught the rest of the world to lay them down. The propositions in question did not originate from me, or from my particular friends. But when things are so right in themselves, I hold it my duty, not to enquire from what hands they come. I opposed the American measures upon the very same principle on which I support those that relate to Ireland. I was convinced, that the evils which have arisen from the adoption of the former, would be infinitely aggravated by the rejection of the latter. Perhaps gentlemen are not yet fully aware of the situation of their country, and what its exigencies absolutely require. I find that we are still disposed to talk at our ease, and as if all things were to be regulated by our good pleasure. I should consider it as a fatal sympton, if, in our present distressed and adverse circumstances, we should persist in the errors which are natural only to prosperity. One cannot indeed sufficiently lament the continuance of that spirit of delusion, by which, for a long time past, we have thought fit to measure our necessities by our inclinations. Moderation, prudence, and equity, are far more suitable to our condition, than loftiness, and confidence, and rigour. We are threatened by enemies of no small magnitude, whom, if we think fit, we may despise, as we have despised others; but they are enemies who can only cease to be truly formidable, by our entertaining a due respect for their power. Our danger will not be lessened by our shutting our eyes to it; nor will our force abroad be increased by rendering ourselves feeble, and divided at home. There is a dreadful schism in the British nation. Since we are not able to re-unite the empire, it is our business to give all possible vigour and soundness to those parts of it which are still content to be governed by our councils. Sir, it is proper to inform you, that our measures must be healing. Such a degree of strength must be communicated to all the members of the state, as may enable them to defeud themselves, and to co-operate in the defence of the whole. Their temper too must be managed, and their good affections cultivated. the conduct of Great Britain towards the sister kingdom had been no less impolitic than unjust, and that the present situation of public affairs called particularly on this country to enter into a revision of the Irish trade laws. They may then be disposed to bear the load with cheerfulness, as a contribution towards what may be called with truth and propriety, and not by an empty form of words, a common cause. Too little dependence cannot be had, at this time of day, on names and prejudices. The eyes of mankind are opened; and com munities must be held together by an evident and solid interest. God forbid, that our conduct should demonstrate to the world, that Great Britain can, in no instance whatsoever, be brought to a sense of rational and equitable policy, but by coercion and force of arms! I wish you to recollect, with what powers of concession, relatively to commerce, as well as to legislation, his Majesty's commissioners to the united colonies have sailed from England within this week. Whether these powers are sufficient for their purposes, it is not now my business to examine. But we all know, that our resolutions in favour of Ireland are trifling and insignificant, when compared with the concessions to the Americans. At such a juncture, I would implore every man who retains the least spark of regard to the yet remaining honour and security of this country, not to compel others to an imitation of their conduct; or by passion and violence, to force them to seek in the territories of the separation, that freedom, and those advantages, which they are not to look for whilst they remain under the wings of their ancient government. After all, what are the matters we dispute with so much warmth? Do we in these resolutions bestow any thing upon Ireland? Not a shilling. We only consent to leave to them, in two or three instances, the use of the natural faculties which God has given to thein, and to all mankind. Is Ireland united to the crown of Great Britain for no other purpose, than that we should counteract the bounty of Providence in her favour? And in proportion as that bounty has been liberal, that we are to regard it as an evil, which is to be met with in every sort of corrective? To say that Ireland interferes with us, and therefore must be checked, is, in my opinion, a very mistaken, and a very dangerous principle. I must beg leave to repeat, what I took the liberty of suggesting to you in my last letter, that Ireland is a country, in the same climate, and of the same natural qualities and productions, with this; and has consequently no other means of growing wealthy in herself, or in other words, of being useful to us, but by doing the very same things which we do, for the same purposes. I hope that in Great Britain we shall always pursue, without exception, every means of prosperity, and of course, that Ireland will interfere with us in Mr. Burke spoke to the same purport. Ireland was now the chief dependency of the British crown, and it particularly behoved this country to admit the Irish nation to the privileges of British citizens. Mr. Baker said, the restrictions on the something or other; for either, in order to limit her, we must restrain ourselves, or we must fall into that shocking conclusion, that we are to keep our yet remaining dependency, under a general and indiscriminate restraint, for the mere purpose of oppression. Indeed, Sir, England and Ireland may flourish together. The world is large enough for us both. Let it be our care not to make ourselves too little for it. I know it is said, that the people of Ireland do not pay the same taxes, and therefore ought not in equity to enjoy the same benefits with this. I had hopes, that the unhappy phantom of a compulsory equal taxation had haunted us long enough. I do assure you, that until it is entirely banished from our imaginations, (where alone it has, or can have any existence) we shall never cease to do ourselves the most substantial injuries. To that argument of equal taxation, I can only say,-that Ireland pays as many taxes as those who are the best judges of her powers, are of opinion she can bear. To bear more, she must have more ability; and in the order of nature, the advantage must precede the charge. This disposition of things, being the law of God, neither you nor I can alter it. So that if you will have more help from Ireland, you must previously supply her with more means. I believe it will be found, that if men are suffered freely to cultivate their natural advantages, a virtual equality of contribution will come in its own time, and will flow by an easy descent through its own proper and natural channels. An attempt to disturb that course, and to force nature, will only bring on universal discontent, distress and confusion. You tell me, Sir, that you prefer an union with Ireland to the little regulations which are proposed in parliament. This union is a great question of state, to which, when it comes properly before me in my parliamentary capacity, I shall give an honest and unprejudiced consideration. However, it is a settled rule with ine, to make the most of my actual situation; and not to refuse to do a proper thing, because there is something else more proper, which I am not able to do. This union is a business of difficulty; and on the principles of your letter, a business impracticable. Until it can be matured into a feasible and desirable scheme, I wish to have as close an union of interest and affection with Ireland, as I can have; and that, I am sure, is a far better thing than any nominal union of government. France, and indeed most extensive empires, which by various designs and fortunes have grown into one great mass, contain many provinces that are very different from each other in Irish trade defeated themselves, and, instead of promoting the staple manufactory of this country, that of woollens, had the direct contrary effect, by furnishing the French with raw materials, which enabled them to undersell us in all the markets of Europe. privileges and modes of government; and they raise their supplies in different ways; in different proportions; and under different authorities; yet none of them are for this reason curtailed of their natural rights; but they carry on trade and manufactures with perfect equality. In some way or other the true ba lance is found; and all of them are properly poised and harmonized. How much have you lost by the participation of Scotland in all your commerce? The external trade of England has more than doubled since that period; and I believe your internal (which is the most advantageous) has been augmented at least fourfold. Such virtue there is in liberality of sentiment, that you have grown richer even by the partnership of poverty. If you think, that this participation was a loss, commercially considered, but that it has been compensated by the share which Scotland has taken in defraying the public chargebelieve you have not very carefully looked at the public accounts. Ireland, Sir, pays a great deal more than Scotland; and is perhaps as much, and as effectually united to England as Scotland is. But if Scotland, instead of paying little, had paid nothing at all, we should be gainers, not losers, by acquiring the hearty cooperation of an active intelligent people, to wards the increase of the common stock; ivstead of our being employed in watching and counteracting them, and their being employed in watching and counteracting us, with the peevish and churlish jealousy of rivals and enemies on both sides. I am sure, Sir, that the commercial experience of the merchants of Bristol, will soon disabuse them of the prejudice, that they can trade no longer, if countries more lightly taxed are permitted to deal in the same commodities at the same markets. You know, that in fact, you trade very largely where you are met by the goods of all nations. You even pay high duties, on the import of your goods, and afterwards undersell nations less taxed, at their own markets; and where goods of the same kind are not charged at all. If it were otherwise, you could trade very little. You know, that the price of all sorts of manufacture is not a great deal enhanced (except to the domestic consumer) by any taxes paid in this country. This I might very easily prove. The same consideration will relieve you from the apprehension you express, with relation to sugars, and the difference of the duties paid here and in Ireland. Those duties affect the interior consumer only; and for obvious reasons, relative to the interest of revenue itself, Sir W. Meredith confirmed what Mr. Baker had said; observing, that the Irish, in order to pay the enhanced value of lands, were obliged to carry their wool to France, where it brought a most exorbi tant price. Mr. Byng hoped the narrow policy they must be proportioned to his ability of payments; but in all cases in which sugar can be an object of commerce, and therefore (in this view) of rivalship, you are sensible, that you are at least on a par with Ireland. As to your apprehensions concerning the more advantageous situation of Ireland, for some branches of commerce, (for it is so but for some) I trust you will not find them more serious. Milford Haven, which is at your door, may serve to shew you, that the mere advantage of ports is not the thing which shifts the seat of commerce from one part of the world to the other. If I thought you inclined to take up this matter on local considerations, I should state to you, that I do not know any part of the kingdom so well situated for an advantageous commerce with Ireland as Bristol; and that none would be so likely to profit of its prosperity as our city. But your profit and theirs must concur. Beggary and bankruptcy are not the circumstances which invite to an intercourse with that or with any country; and I believe it will be found invariably true, that the superfluities of a rich nation furnish a better object of trade than the necessities of a poor one. It is the interest of the commercial world that wealth should be found every where. The true ground of fear, in my opinion, is this; that Ireland, from the vicious system of its internal polity, will be a long time before it can derive any benefit from the liberty now granted, or from any thing else. But as I do not vote advantages, in hopes that they may not be enjoyed, I will not lay any stress upon this consideration. I rather wish, that the parliament of Ireland may, in its own wisdom, remove these impediments, and put their country in a condition to avail itself of its natural advantages. If they do not, the fault is with them, and not with us. I have written this long letter, in order to give all possible satisfaction to my constituents with regard to the part I have taken in this affair. It gave me inexpressible concern to find, that my conduct had been a cause of uneasiness to any of them. Next to my honour and conscience, I have nothing so near and dear to me as their approbation. However, I had much rather run the risk of displeasing than of injuring them;-if I am driven to make such an option. You obligingly lament, that you are not to have me for your advocate; but if I had been capable of acting as an advocate in opposition to a plan so perfectly consonant to my known principles, and to the opinions I bad publicly declared on a bundred occasions, I should only disgrace myself, without support[VOL. XIX.] which induced this country to prevent the people of Ireland from manufacturing their native produce was at an end, and trusted that the House would come to the business with one heart, and a spirit of unanimity. The motion was agreed to nem. con. ing with the smallest degree of credit or effect, the cause you wished me to undertake. I should have lost the only thing which can make such abilities as mine of any use to the world now or hereafter; I mean that authority which is derived from an opinion, that a member speaks the language of truth and sincerity; and that he is not ready to take up or lay down a great political system for the convenience of the hour; that he is in parliament to support bis opinion of the public good, and does not form his opinion in order to get into parliament, or to continue in it. It is in a great measure for your sake, that I wish to preserve this character. Without it, I am sure, I should be ill able to discharge, by any service, the smallest part of that debt of gratitude and affection which I owe you for the great and honourable trust you have reposed in me. I am, with the highest regard and esteem, Sir, &c. Beaconsfield, April 23, 1778. E. B. COPY of a LETTER to Messrs. ***** ****** and Co. Bristol. 1 Gentlemen; It gives me the most sensible concern to find, that my vote on the resolutions relative to the trade of Ireland, has not been fortunate enough to meet with your approbation. I have explained at large the grounds of my conduct on that occasion in my letters to the Merchants Hall: but my very sincere regard and esteem for you will not permit me to let the matter pass without an explanation, which is particular to yourselves, and which, I hope, will prove satisfactory to you. You tell me, that the conduct of your late member is not much wondered at; but you seem to be at a loss to account for mine; and you lament, that I have taken so decided a part against my constituents. This is rather an heavy imputation. Does it then really appear to you, that the propositions to which you refer, are, on the face of them, so manifestly wrong, and so certainly injurious to the trade and manufactures of Great Britain, and particularly to yours, that no man could think of proposing, or supporting them, except from resentment to you, or from some other oblique motive? If you suppose your late member, or if you suppose me, to act upon other reasons than we choose to avow, to what do you attribute the conduct of the other members, who, in the beginning, almost unanimously adopted those resolutions? To what do you attribute the strong part taken by the ministers, and along with the ministers, by several of their most declared opponents? [ 4 B] |