At present there is no other advice left to be given, but to concede and to confirm that independence to America, which you have forced upon them. I know that you will not consent to this, and that all counsel is vain, but I know likewise that the time will come when you will think it a good bargain to make peace with America, simply upon the terms of independence. I would advise the repeal of the Canada Act, but I know likewise that this will not be done; yet the time may come when this Act may be repealed without your consent. Look to Canada, and perhaps to the Floridas. It might likewise be worth while to think of your West Indian islands. You have driven America into an alliance with the House of Bourbon. Look to the consequences. For my own part I can only give the advice of a single and insignificant individual. I would seek the alliance and friendship of America. I would cement the two countries together by a mutual naturalization, in all rights and franchises to the fullest extent. We are derived from the same stock; we have the same religion, the same manners, the same language, the same temper, the same love of liberty and of independence; and if we must be seemingly divided, let there at least be an union in that partition. To those who might otherwise have a reluctance to the concession of American independence, let this serve as the more liberal equivalent, Give up freely the less generous claim of an irksome and sterile dominion, and put the "padlock on the mind." I will now, with their permission, read to the committee the motions which I have to make. They are as follow: 1." That it is the opinion of this committee, that the expence of prosecuting the American war for another campaign, in the year 1778, more especially if, in consequence thereof, this country should be involved in any foreign wars, added to the expences already incurred in the American war, may probably amount to a sum not less than between 30 and 40 millions sterling, which must create an alarming increase of the principal and interest of the national debt, and must require many additional heavy and burdensome taxes, land taxes as well as other taxes, upon the British subjects to defray. 2. That the prosecution of the American war must be destructive of the navigation, trade, riches, and resources of this country, as well as of the lives of his Majesty's sub. jects, carrying our land and sea forces the distance of 3,000 miles, and thereby laying us open to the insults or attack of any secret or insidious enemy to this country. 3. That among the various causes which may contribute to depress the national funds, or to embarrass the state of public credit, and to weaken the resources of this country, the hostile disunion and division of America against Great Britain must probably be more operative to such fatal effects, than the prosecution of any just and necessary war against a foreign enemy. 4. That it is unbecoming the wisdom and prudence of parliament to proceed any farther in the prosecution of this fruitless, expensive, and destructive American war. 5. That there is no reason to doubt the sufficiency of the powers of this country, or the most animated coercion of them, when disengaged from this fatal American war; and under the conduct of a prudènt and vigilant administration, effectually to resent every insult, and to repel every at tack, upon the honour, of his Majesty's crown, and upon the essential interests of his kingdom, in the prosecution of any just and necessary war, against a foreign enemy. 6. That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, that he will graciously be pleased to instruct the commissioners appointed to treat, consult, and agree upon the means of quieting the disorders now subsisting in certain of the colonies, plantations, and provinces of North America, to establish, as a fundamental, previous to any treaty, and from which they shall not have liberty to depart, that all persons, born either in Great Britain, Ireland, or the colonies, provinces, and plantations of North America, shall be considered as natural born subjects, and enjoy all rights and privileges as such, throughout all the said dominions in common, in the manner heretofore accustomed." Lord North objected to the motions in gross as well as in detail. He could not agree to the first, from its being erroneously stated, as well from its depending on probability, and its indefinite amount. A sum between 30 and 40 millions was very indefinite; but the error in the stating was the most considerable objection. The fact was, that the expence of the three last years was no more than 18 million or thereabouts, and the additions at the end of the campaign, would be 5 million. This, he said, he could prove, by enumerating the addition to the national debt and other articles. The addition to the national debt was 13 million. The increase of the land-tax was 500,000l. a year, that made it 14,500,000l. The increase of the navy debt was about a million and a half, that made it 16 million, and the sum which we should have saved in case of peace, and which would have gone to pay off a part of the national debt, might be taken on an average at 900,000l. a year. So that the sum it had already cost us is no more than 18,700,000l. The unfunded debt for the present year will be no more than 3 millions, and the other out-goings altogether would make up no greater a sum than about 23,500,000l. He adverted to the hon. gentleman's arguments on the last loan. The reason for his meaning to give the subscribers douceurs, at a time when the stocks had considerably decreased, was, that they might in future trust to the honour of parliament. The first deposit had not been made, nor was there any compulsion upon them to make good their subscriptions. They would have been losers to have it made good, as the stocks then stood; and as parliament must, sooner or later, have made good the deficiency, he thought it provident to give them a further advantage, which would have superseded the necessity of having the aid from parliament next session, as well as brought future subscribers forward, by shewing that they dealt honourably with them. He could not agree with the hon. gentleman, that it would be good policy to keep 5 millions reserved in the Exchequer, while so heavy a load of debt hangs upon the nation. It might, indeed, be advantageous to have such a sum in reserve, as a nest egg, when we went to market, or as a provision for a rainy day, when we could not go; but he considered it impossible to accomplish such an object in the present state of our finances. He could not, from the most impartial review of his conduct, consider it as criminal. His heart must be excused, though his head might be to blame. With the best and wisest intention, an erroneous conduct might be joined. In a particular manner he justified the measure of the Quebec Act. After the most serious deliberation on the nature of the people, he considered it most prudent and politic to give them the form of government they now enjoy. Not fitted to receive into their state an epitome of our original constitution, he formed a system partly of our own, and partly of the French government, merely as a preliminary to the introduction of a solid system, by a popular assembly. He thought that the civil law of France, to which they had originally belonged, joined to the criminal law of Britain, which was a greater security to the subject than that of the French, would jointly form a system, favourable as a preliminary, until a more regular one could be granted. He concluded with moving that the chairman do leave the chair: which was agreed to. Debate on Mr. Powys's Motion for enabling the Commissioners appointed to treat with America to declare the Independency of that Country.] April 10. In the Committee on the State of the Nation, Mr. Powys said, that from the exhausted state of the finances of the nation, and the great expence into which the American war had plunged it, nothing at this period, when we were threatened with a French war, could be more necessary to us than peace with America. After the amazing stand that the Congress had made against our armies; after the incredible successes with which their endeavours to shake off their dependence on this country had been attended, it were chimerical to think that they would give up an independence which they had established with their blood and treasure; and which placed them out of the reach of any future minister, who, following the example of the present administration, might, if they returned to their obedience to Great Britain, endeavour to enslave them with arms, victorious arms in their hands; it was the height of madness to think they would treat with us, but as one sovereign and independent state ought with another: it was fruitless then to send out commissioners at a vast expence, whose powers being too limited did not enable them to treat upon such terms. The people would be only amused with the vain expectation that the Americans would return to their allegiance; while nothing was more foreign to their intention; and the kingdom already bending beneath the weight of an enormous debt, would be saddled with vast but unnecessary expences. He should therefore move, in order to procure a peace, at present so necessary, “That the powers of the Commissioners might be enlarged; and that they might be authorised to declare the Americans absolutely and for ever independent." Mr. Pulteney thought the motion injurious to the commissioners. A number of men had raised themselves in the colonies, from obscurity to grandeur, from po verty to riches, from servitude to power; | reasons for evading a war. An inquiry they had the reins of their new govern- into the internal opulence of this country ment in their hands, which must be would extinguish every fear of that kind. wrested from them; it was reasonable to The aggregate riches of Britain were not suppose, that they would insist upon it, less than 1,000 million. The national debt and, if not overcome by the superior voice was only 146 million; a seventh part of of the people, would preserve it. Such a the wealth of the kingdom. How, then, resolution as that moved for, would give could we be so distressed in our finances? them the fairest argument to persuade the In cases of national occasion, we should people; and independency must be the have reference to the fundamental proconsequence. But he did not despair of perty of the nation, and all Europe would the success of the commission. He be- wonder at our resources, and tremble at lieved the tone of the Americans, in geour power. neral, was against independency. They had been in a manner forced into a measure, which they had not approved of, and it was carried in the Congress by only one or two voices. It was even reasonable, arguing from motives of interest, to suppose that they would prefer dependency to independency. Secured from taxation; relieved from the fear of having any share in the burthen of our debt; protected during war by our strength, and cultivated during peace by our arts-with these advantages joined to dependency, could they wish to be independent? It was not reasonable, that men, attentive to their interests, would forfeit security and protection, for danger and the chimerical notions of nominal grandeur. But it hurt him to hear a proposition urged in that House so destructive to the welfare of Britain. Would not the independency of America be the eve of their advancement into a flourishing naval power? Their situation commanding a species of superiority over all the earth, they would soon rival Europe in arts, as well as grandeur, and their power in particular would rear itself on the decay of ours. Are we, then, so lost to all the feelings of patriotism, that with a wanton hand we would lay the foundation stone of a blockade against our own existence? We were able yet to reduce America, should she be unwise enough to refuse our offers. Efforts would then be made very different from the former. We had till then been engaged in a wrong cause; our ministers had been cruel, unjust, and unconstitutional in their demands, and the hearts of the people were not in the measures adopted. But now the injustice would change sides, and if they refused, they only would be the aggressors. In a war with justice on our side, what would not Britain perform? The national spirit was not extinct, and that was the bulwark of Britain. The state of the funds and finances had been introduced as Mr. Fox said, he had formed a decided opinion upon the present question, and if he should happen to differ in his sentiments from a venerable character, whom he honoured and revered, the committee would give him credit that no early prejudice, no infant pique, directed his judgment, or influenced his mind. He had considered this matter, abstracted from every other object, and his judgment was formed upon logical, as well as natural reasoning and deduction. The dependency of America he thought it impossible, from our situation, as well as from the nature of the object, for us to regain. She had joined with France in an amicable and commercial treaty. The latter had recognized her independency, and both were bound in gratitude to defend one another, against our resentment on the one hand, or our attempt to break it on the other. If by concession or coercion we attempted to recover the dependency of America, we should have the powers of France and America, and perhaps Spain, to encounter with. If we attempted to punish France for recognizing the independency of America, America would join her, and we should have, in either case, two, if not three powers to combat with. It was probable, that the greatest part of Europe would join in the recognizance. Gratitude on the one hand, and obligation on the other, would unite them in one bond, and we should experience the joint efforts of all, if we attacked one. If, on the contrary, the committee agreed to the motion, and thereby recognized the independency of America, we should be no longer bound to punish the European powers, who had already, or who might do the same: and we should probably secure a larger share of the commerce of the Americans, by a perpetual alliance on a foederal foundation, than on a nominal dependence. He could not avoid lamenting to hear the language at present used in the House of Commons-namely, that the Americans were not in general inclined to independence. Now, could any thing be more distant from probability? Had we not seen proof upon proof exhibited to the contrary? Had not the provinces, one and all, entered into the most solemn bond not to depart from, or rescind their vote of independency; and had not even thousands of them, in the province of Carolina, as well as in others, taken an oath before Heaven to maintain it? The Congress and the people were the same. Distinct opinions, party distractions, and disunited interests, had not been formed in America, with regard to the great point in which, by their unanimity, they had succeeded. He laughed to hear the contrary asserted; but he hoped sincerely that the hon. gentleman near him (governor Johnstone), and the other commissioners, had more solid grounds to go upon, and more rational hopes of success. He viewed the dependency of America as a matter of very little moment to any part of this country, other than the minister and his dependants. He understood that the appointment of governors, and other officers by the crown, was an object of their contemplation, and one which they esteemed of great consequence. It was meant, he supposed, as an addition to the weight in the scale of government, and this circumstance deserved the most serious attention of the House. The three estates of parliament could no longer be the security and defence of our constitution, than when they remained in an equipoise with regard to one another. If one preponderated, the executive over the legislative, or the legislative over the executive, the superstructure must fall. It was a melancholy, but a certain truth, that the power of the executive had been gradually exerting itself to a predominancy for some years past, and its growth was already dangerous to our constitutional existence. The further advantage that would be thrown into the scale, by the weight of America, would give maturity to its growth, and perpetual dominion to it over the legislative; because, by the exemption from taxation, no degree of weight whatever was added to the legislative state. Taxes were so far necessary to our constitution, seeing that they engaged the people narrowly to watch and resist the influence of the crown. Their lives and properties could only be in danger when the crown became despotic. A security against that danger destroyed their fears; and not being concerned in the advancement or depression of the crown, they did not regard its progress. Good God! then, could Britons with their eyes open, and, sensible of the danger arising from the predominancy of the executive power, wilfully throw so great an addition of strength into it, as the power of appointing the officers to the government of America must necessarily create? Had we not appointments, douceurs, sinecures, pensions, titles, baubles and secret-service money enough already? Did not the creatures of government swarm in every department, and must we add to their number? He could not see that American independency would so soon rise as the hon. gentleman imagined, to maritime preeminence. The Americans could have no inducement to hunt for territory abroad, when what they quietly possessed would be more than they could occupy and cultivate. and cultivate. They would find the advantages of conquest unequal to those of agriculture; and remembering that man has naturally a predilection for the enjoyment of landed property, they would find it impossible, in a country where land was to be had for nothing, to propagate a spirit of manufacture and commerce. Every American, more or less, would become the tiller and planter, and the country might, in some future and distant period, be the Arcadia, but it could never be the Britain of the world. He reverted to the arguments of the hon. gentleman near him, in regard to the finances of this country. He never was more surprized than he was at hearing a man of sense, introduce such a puerility. The internal opulence of the country might be introduced as a figure of shew, to delude the ignorant into an extravagant idea of our resources; but the people must know that it was a mere delusion. If we were reduced to such an emergency as to have reference to the fundamental opulence, so might our enemy; and comparing the one resource with the other, we must acknowledge that theirs, in that respect, was treble our own. Our natural resources, he knew, were superior to those of our enemy, in proportion to the extent of country; but we ought to remember, that theirs were capable of more improvements without injuring the people than ours. Would ministers but abolish the extravagant method of collecting their re- the late Conciliatory Acts had laid: it venues, the voluptuous manner of expend- might be an odd thing to say, but he deing them, and the enormous extent of theclared freely, that he did not desire his royal expenditure, what a superiority, in instructions to be enlarged; especially on point of revenue, might they not effect? the point of independency. He looked He condemned the Conciliatory Act as upon the establishing of the independency totally inadequate to the object, and de- of America, as entailing ruin upon this clared, that if they produced any good end, country. There were, indeed, some prehe should attribute it solely to the influ-liminary matters which he thought still ence of the hon. and worthy gentleman (governor Johnstone) who was last joined in the commission. He hoped the committee would consider seriously of the matter before them: there had been enough of treasure fruitlessly wasted; and that they might not waste more on an inadequate commission, he begged them to extend its powers, and thereby secure its success. He could not avoid adverting to the conduct of the ministry, in regard to the French "aggression." He knew not from whence the word came, but he supposed it meant "insult." Himself and others were termed pusillanimous, because they attempted to stem the torrent of rage, that rushed from the bosoms of the ministry on that occasion-they were called pusillanimous, because they were calm; but could they not now, with double energy, send back the term on those men who had confessed that the nation was insulted; who had made the King and the parliament of England confess that they were insulted; and who, for a whole month, had pocketed the insult, without preparing to punish it, or taking a single step for the defence of the nation? He begged the committee to observe, that the ministry, conscious of their own inability, were obliged, when they wanted service to be performed, to call to their assistance the very men who had condemned their measures, and uniformly despised them. But if a peace was to be negociated, or a war to be undertaken, (meaning the appointment of governor Johnstone in the one case, and admiral Keppel and lord Amherst in the other) they were obliged to employ the men on his side of the House. Governor Johnstone doubted, whether it might not be thought imprudent for him to speak at all in the predicament in which he stood. He said it would be presumptuous, in him, to say that the business of the commission would succeed: but he thought he saw so many reasons for thinking so, that he was free to undertake it. It was an experiment to be tried; and he would undertake it on the ground, which remained to be settled as absolutely neces sary to the success of the negociation of the commissioners. The first was the repealing of the Declaratory Law; which was downright nonsense, as it now stood in our statute books, after the repeals we have already made. The other was the repeal of the Canada Act. He said, when these obstacles were removed, as well as those, to the removal of which we already conceded, the Americans could have nothing else to ask. When they had absolute security in the possession of all their rights, what could they wish more? Ask any dispassionate man, or any indifferent power upon the earth, ought they or ought they not, to close with us on the concessions which we offer? Most certainly they fought. While, indeed, we denied them any rights which they were undoubtedly entitled to; while we, with the hand of power, restrained them in the exercise of those which we even allowed they had; while we made an unjust, cruel, foolish and abominable war against them: they were united in their resistance to us; and Britain was divided. Half Britain then was opposed to all America. But now that we offer them such terms as they ought to accept, their resistance will become positive rebellion, and our war a just. one. It will then be all Britain against half America. On this ground of independency America is greatly divided. Whatever the people in power may wish and aim at, the great body of the people do not wish to change the government of Britain for that of the Congress. The people of the old settled interest and property do not wish for independency, they rather dread it. Under this state of things; and my information, which I will trust and stand by, tells me that this is the state of things; I do not despair of the success of the commission with the powers it has at present. At least it will be worth the trial. If they are not actually divided in their measures, they are yet so unsettled in their opinion, that we ought to try whether they will be divided. But even supposing that the acknowledging the in |