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contains, besides, a charge against minis- | he raised its glory, reputation, and sucters, and recommends condemnation, without the parties being permitted to be heard in their own defence. Now, I totally differ from the noble viscount, that recommending to withdraw the troops implies any restriction whatever. It only relates to a matter of state, and does not, in the most remote degree, tend to tie up the hands of the sovereign. His Majesty may station or send the troops to any part of the world he pleases: the advice simply relates to the employing them in hostilities against the revolted colonies. The noble viscount's argument relative to the removal of ministers, is no less ill supported: he presumes, that removal imports accusation; and that ignorance or misfortune amounts to criminality. I am sure he cannot be serious, because the contrary has been the constant language of ministers and their friends, since the commence. ment of the present enquiry. If, then, inability or misfortune are not criminal, a removal on those grounds cannot import accusation, much less condemnation. But, my lords, independent of this, I can see. nothing in the argument. I will allow, if removal amounted to the same thing as a bill of pains and penalties, the charge should be carefully made and fully proved; but is that the case at present? Ministers, though they are the king's servants, are likewise the servants of the public. The king himself is to be considered in that light; he is the first, but he is nevertheless no more than the first magistrate. If, therefore, parliament and the people, whose servants ministers are, disapprove of their conduct, it is the duty, as it ought to be the wish of the king, to dismiss them from their places and employments. The noble viscount says, that charges should be accompanied with proofs. If he wants proofs of incapacity, I believe your lordships have been amply furnished with them in the course of the enquiry. If any more are wanting, look to the present perilous situation of this country.

The noble earl who spoke last, for whose person and opinions I entertain the highest veneration, thinks, that the interest and honour of this country unite in obliging us to hazard every thing in securing the dependency of the colonies; and, as a ground of what we are able to do, reminds us of what we have formerly achieved. Not one of your lordships has a more grateful memory of the services performed for his country, by that noble lord, than I have:

cesses to an height never before experienced by any other nation. His lordship's name (I beg his pardon for mentioning it) the name of Chatham, will ever be dear to Englishmen; but when I grant this, I am convinced that the name of Chatham is not able to perform impossibilities; and that even high and respectable as it is, I do not think that the present state of this country by any means accords with what it was when the noble lord was called to direct our councils. Our finances were then in a most flourishing state, through the abilities and indefatigable zeal of that truly great man and able financier, Mr. Pelham; our fleet was in a most respectable condition, and under the direction of a most able naval officer, and noble member of this House (lord Anson). The influence of the crown had not yet got to the alarming height it has since arrived at. We had, for the most part of the war, but France singly to contend with; and when Spain took a part against us, France was exhausted to the lowest ebb; her navy was almost annihilated; and the principal part of her colonies in the new world wrested from her, and in our possession. We had then America for us; we have now America against us; instead of Great Britain and America against France and Spain, it will now be France, Spain, and America against Great Britain. If the noble lord had, indeed, pointed out the means of supporting ourselves in such an unequal contest, I should readily acquiesce in his lordship's sentiments; but as his lordship has not only omitted to point out the means, but has acknowledged that he knows them not, I presume he will excuse me, if I adhere to my former opinion. I am as ready as any man, to acknowledge and repeat, that the noble earl carried the glory of the nation to a higher pitch than had been known at any former period; but if his lordship were to come in now, he would come in under very different circumstances.

My lords, there is not a person present, who more sincerely wishes that America should remain dependent on this country, than I do But as I am convinced that it is now totally impracticable, I am anxious to retain them as allies, because if they are not on terms of friendship with us, they must necessarily throw themselves into the arms of France; and if we go to war with France on account of her late treaty, the colonies will look upon themselves

Temple, Stamford, &c. His lordship was removed into the Prince's Chamber, and Dr. Brocklesby, who happened to be near, immediately attended his lordship.*

The following Account of Lord Chatham's Illness in the House of Lords, is taken by memory from the Conversation of a Friend, who was in the House at the time, and saw the whole transaction. See Seward's Anecdotes of Distinguished Persons, vol. 2, p. 383.

bound in honour to assist her. What prospect of success have we? We have Tost 11,000 men in the course of the last campaign. Our peace establishment is between 5 and 6,000 short of its complement. Make this up out of the new corps, or send all the new corps to America to repair the losses of the last campaign; is there one of your lordships, or a single minister present, who will rise and say, that there is the least prospect of supposing, that raw undisciplined troops will be able to effect what veterans could not? It is absurd to expect success, though you had no power but America to contend with. But if appearances were more favourable, how can money be raised? You are now obliged to borrow money in the third year of a war, at a higher premium than you were in the seventh year of the late war, attended with this circumstance too, that the loan was then twelve, whereas it is now six millions; and yet, high as the pre-it, casting his eyes towards Heaven, and said, mium is, the subscribers are considerable losers; so considerable, that an application has been talked of to parliament, to indemnify them for their losses.

The noble earl, as a reason for inducing your lordships to go to war, talks of the injustice that must follow to the inherent rights of the heir apparent and his brother, by disposing of their American patrimony. I am ready to assist the noble lord, not in endeavouring to recover what I deem now totally impracticable (I mean by force of arms) but in calling to a severe account, those who have been the cause of the loss of their inheritance. Much has been said, in a former debate, of the provocation given by France, on account of her conduct respecting America, to prove, that we are compelled to resent it, in the most spirited and direct manner. Queen Elizabeth, it is well known, openly abetted the revolt of the Spanish Netherlands, in the reign of Philip the 2nd, and assisted them for a series of years, with men and money. Philip, far from resenting it, scarcely seemed to take the least notice. His hands were then sufficiently full; and he never looked upon himself bound, either in honour or policy, to create more enemies than he was able to contend with; and yet Philip was at that time the most powerful prince in Europe.

The Earl of Chatham rose to reply, but after two or three unsuccessful attempts to stand, his lordship fell down in a swoon on his seat, and was immediately assisted by the duke of Cumberland, and the earls

"Lord Chatham came into the House of Lords, leaning upon two friends, lapped up in wig, little more was to be seen than his aquiWithin his large flannel, pale and emaciated. line nose and his penetrating eye. He looked like a dying man; yet never was seen a figure of more dignity: he appeared like a being of a superior species.

"He rose from his seat with slowness and

difficulty, leaning on his crutches, and supported under each arm by his two friends. He took one hand from his crutch and raised

I thank God that I have been enabled to come here this day--to perform my duty, and to speak on a subject which has so deeply impressed my mind. I am old and infirm-have one foot, more than one foot in the grave--I am risen from my bed, to stand up in the cause of my country-perhaps never again to speak in this House!'-A prophecy too fatally fulfilled! "The purport of his speech is well known. The reverence-the attention-the stillness of the House was most affecting: if any one had dropped a handkerchief, the noise would have been heard.

"At first he spoke in a very low and feeble tone; but as he grew warm, his voice rose, and was as harmonious as ever; oratorical and

affecting, perhaps more than at any former period both from his own situation, and from the importance of the subject on which he spoke. He gave the whole history of the American war; of all the measures to which he had objected; and all the evils which he had prophesied, in consequence of them; adding at the end of each, And so it proved!'

"In one part of his speech he ridiculed the the remembrance of former invasions. Of a apprehension of an invasion, and then recalled Spanish invasion, of a French invasion, of a Dutch invasion, many noble lords. may have read in history; and some lords (looking keenly at one who sat near him) may, perhaps, remember a Scotch invasion.'

"While the duke of Richmond was speaking, he looked at him with attention and composure; but when he rose up to answer, his strength failed him, and he fell backwards. near him, and every one pressed round him He was instantly supported by those who were with anxious solicitude. His youngest son, the hon. James Pitt (since dead), was particularly active and clever in assisting his venera

As soon as the confusion occasioned by this public calamity subsided, the duke of Richmond rose, and after giving a warm testimony to the great political abilities and integrity of the noble earl, whose illness had caused the interruption of the debate, and acquainting their lordships he had the pleasure to inform them, that the noble earl's illness, though violent, he had reason to hope was but temporary, and occasioned by weakness and the excessive heat of the House, said he thought it would be better to adjourn the debate till the next day. The House unanimously agreed to it, and accordingly adjourned.

April 8. The order of the day being read for resuming the adjourned debate on the State of the Nation,

The Duke of Richmond rose, and having lamented in very warm terms the unlucky accident which had the preceding day caused the House so suddenly to rise, said he had the pleasure to inform their lordships that the issue was not likely to prove fatal in its consequences, as appearances at first seemed to threaten; for he had learned since he came into the House, that the noble earl was much better, and that he was not without hopes of soon seeing his lordship in his place, and in a capacity once more to serve his country, by the performance of his duty in that House. His grace then reminded their lordships, that his motive for resuming the subject of yesterday's debate was merely to give any of their lordships who might desire it, an opportunity of speaking to the question. He had himself so fully spoken to the several objects which it involved, that he should not think of troubling them again, unless in reply. The motion itself was drawn up so much in detail, that it called for very few arguments to support

ble father, though the youth was not more than 17 or 18 years of age.

"Lord Chatham was carried to Mr. Sergent's house, in Downing-street, where he was accommodated with every kind and friendly attention, both at this time and on a preceding day, when he had attended the House of Lords, some weeks before. From thence he was carried home to Hayes, and put to bed. He never rose again! Therefore his death may be properly said to have happened in the House of Lords, in the discharge of his great political duty: a duty which he came, in a dying state, to perform!

Such was the glorious end of this great

man!"

it. On the whole, if any new matter should arise which might make his rising necessary, he should do all in his power to give their lordships such explanations as the matter itself might call for.

The Earl of Shelburne began with paying very high compliments to their lordships, on the great attention shewn to the noble earl (Chatham) who had been taken ill the preceding day. He said, their conduct upon that melancholy occasion, was such as might be naturally expected from persons of their nice and generous feelings, and was worthy of the highest encomiums. It was a mark of respect, as well as of humanity, to adjourn the debate: and for his part, looking upon himself to be highly interested in an event which so nearly concerned the great man alluded to, he was greatly obliged to them. He confessed, he was much alarmed on the occasion, both on account of his personal esteem for the noble earl, and, what was of more consequence to their lordships and the nation, the fatal consequence of the death of a peer, to whose wisdom, abilities, and happy and fortunate exertion of talents, this country stood so highly indebted, and whose assistance would at this perilous moment be so much wanting. He assured their lordships, that it would have been utterly impossible for him to have delivered his sentiments on the question before the House at the time, so sensibly was he affected; nor could he have yet collected himself sufficiently to speak to the subject, if the cause which first prevented him had not been removed in a great measure; the apprehension that the noble earl's illness was likely to prove fatal: his apprehensions were in part removed, thank God, by an appearance of the noble earl's being in a fair way of recovery.

His lordship, by way of introduction, gave a particular account of his own sentiments respecting America, and of the previous steps he took before he finally made up his mind on the subject. He was resolved to have the noble earl's opinion, pure and genuine, unmixed with compliment, or biassed by any personal regards. He accordingly forbore to hint had fully given and explained his; and his own opinion, till after the noble earl was much pleased to find, that it exactly coincided with what he had himself delivered in a debate, a few days since in that House. He was no less surprised at the matter, than the manner in which the

your own opinion? These, my lords, form but an imperfect picture of the solicitations, warnings, dissuasives, and motives, that have been urged to induce me to change my opinion; but they have all proved fruitless. I look not to consequences. I prefer my duty to every other consideration. I look upon this House as my home. I think of nothing which does not directly affect me, as one of this august body. I know that no honest man, who thinks as I do, can lend his counte

noble earl gave his sentiments, considering his state of health; so sound in argument, so spirited, and at the same time, so replete with conviction, that he protested, if he had before doubted, he must have come away confirmed, or had he differed, must have become a convert. This interview took place before he last spoke on the subject, but he thought it would be unparliamentary and unbecoming the respect he owed their lordships, to trouble them with the opinions of persons without doors. He acknowledged, it gave him great plea-nance to administration; but I know, too, sure to have his opinion confirmed by so high an authority; and he thought it proper, before he proceeded to consider the several parts of the question, to make this general declaration, that after maturely considering the question in every possible point of view, he was fully convinced that America was not lost, and that a war was inevitable. If the result of his enquiries on both those points had led him to adopt a contrary opinion, he would have ingenuously recanted, and that in as open and explicit a manner as he delivered his original sentiments, which he found himself obliged to adhere to.

After passing the highest compliments on the abilities, patriotism, and vigour of mind of the noble earl, his lordship proceeded, He laid it down, as the basis of every thing he was going to offer, what fell from him in a former debate, "That the moment Great Britain acknowledged the sovereignty or independency of America, her sun was set; and that he thought in his conscience a war with France was unavoidable." He confessed, he differed from the majority of his nearest friends in this opinion. He differed from those with whom he lived and conversed; with those who stood in the firmest bands of intimacy and friendship with him. He differed from those who lived under the same roof with him. He had received private letters from his acquaintance; from anonymous correspondents. He had been advised, intreated, soothed, admonished. He had been warned of the perilous ground he stood on. He had been told, What, will you join with the destroyers and betrayers of your country? Will you accept of a place, or join an administration who have already proved, in such a variety of instances, their wickedness and imbecility? Will you trust where you have been already betrayed? Will you hazard your own honour and safety, your reputation, nay, the very existence of this country, to

that in this House I am bound to maintain whatever is right, independent of every other consideration. I have not been concerned in business for upwards of ten years. I know the madness of embarking, in some instances, with men whom one does or does not know; but still, though no other person in this or the other House, or within the wide domain of the British empire, thought with me, I should nevertheless retain my present opinion alone, and continue to oppose the sovereignty of America.

But, my lords, suppose that we were willing to allow the claim of independence; that we were ready to sacrifice the most essential interests of this country; are we likely to turn our backs upon the laws of eternal justice? Are we to make a sacri. fice of national faith? What is to become of those unhappy men, who from their loyalty, no matter whether right or wrong, have lost every thing in defending the cause of Great Britain? What will become of the infant children of the late Mr. Penn, the descendants of that great man, the proprietor and legislator of Pensylvania, to whose abilities, labour and attention, America owes the greatest part of her present power and opulence? What will become of the property belonging to a noble viscount in my eye (lord Weymouth)? or of the heirs of the late lord Baltimore? What will become of those men, who have been compelled to fly from their native country; and who, if American independency should prevail, will be the first persons to suffer under American proscription; who will be banished for ever from their native country, and despoiled of their estates and possessions? What will become of the most useful, and one of the most respectable bodies of men in the nation, the merchants, particularly those of the city of London, who have all along conducted themselves in so candid and moderate a manner, and have now nearly

two millions of property lying in America? | martyr to illness, and scarcely able to All these several descriptions of men must be totally ruined, or materially injured. My lords, these are but a small part of the misfortunes we must feel, and the injustice we must inflict on the innocent and helpless a small part of the disgrace we must incur, should America be declared independent, or should we tamely put up with the insults offered to us by France. Suppose we should declare America independent, are we certain that America will stop short in her pretensions? Though the people at large may rest contented, are we certain the Congress will? I have a high opinion of the Congress, as a deliberative body. I am ready to acknowledge, that the views of the people of America are limited to a preservation of what they deem their own proper rights. What does this prove? That if the good sense and moderation of the people were to prevail, and that power were not employed to improper uses, nothing but a mere separation would be to be dreaded. The history of mankind holds another language. The conduct of public affairs here at home, has recently proved it. A few men, possess ing the power and offices of the state, employed that power not in acts of justice or sound policy, but in realizing dreams of senseless unattainable ambition; they told the nation that the sword should never be sheathed, till America agreed to unconditional submission. Who, then, knows but the Congress, when they have attained their object of independency, may look further; and having the art of holding out false lights to the people, may inspire them with expectations of conquest and extent of dominion. Should this be the case, the remainder of America must fall. I have heard it whispered, as being a subject of the petty negociations, carried on by our phantoms of ministers, that St. John's and Cape Breton have been already demanded by American agents. Should this prove true, away goes the fishery and 20,000 seamen. After this will follow the West India islands, and in process of time, Ireland itself; so that we should not have a single foot of land, beyond the limits of this island.

The noble duke who has taken such indefatigable pains in the course of this enquiry, and to whom the nation stands so highly indebted, differs very much from the noble earl, and from those sentiments which I again avow to be mine. For my part, I think the noble earl, though a

speak, delivered himself like an able and honest man, in the foregoing part of this debate. His advice was full of wisdom; and plainly contained the sentiments of a man, jealous for the honour of his country; eager to preserve the rights of the crown in their fullest extent; and anxious to maintain the ancient established character of the nation, by instantly repelling the insult offered by the court of France. The noble duke wishes, in order to avoid the hazard and expence of a foreign war, that America were declared independent. He agrees with the noble earl, that the insult is great; but he thinks, that the present state of the nation renders it not advisable to seek redress for this insult. His grace has observed, that the noble earl said, there were means, but he knew not what. I am precisely of the same way of thinking with the noble earl. I know there are means, but I do not pretend specifically to point them out. It was not the proper business of the noble earl to enter into the detail of them. His lordship would require that at other hands; he would call to one man for an army; to another for a fleet; he would look for money from the people; and he would employ the means, thus drawn from their different channels, effectually. The noble earl, when called to the head of affairs, during the late war, found the nation in a state of despondency. It did not, however, long remain so. France soon felt that we had the means, and that we knew how to use them. Religion and freedom will always inspire the inhabitants of this kingdom with an ardour, and courage, and perseverance, that will lead them to victory, when those are properly directed. It is the business of a minister, to put the proper springs in motion; to call forth the spirit of the people, to induce them to open their purses, to create a confidence in his measures; to unite the hand and purse, to warm the heart, and convince the understanding. With such means, war need not be feared, nor its event dreaded; and I will maintain, that accom. panied with such circumstances, an immediate declaration of war would be both the wisest as well as most honourable step we could take; and the most likely to preserve peace, and of obtaining America. This, my lords, may appear paradoxical; but I shall nevertheless continue to think, that war can only lead us to a safe and honourable peace, and to the recovery of

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