sure, be obliged to the right hon. gentleman of which he had been a member, had for bringing this matter forward.

decided on a point of evidence, twice one Dr. Phillimore said, he had served as a way, and once a contrary way. nominee on the committee to which his Leave was given to bring in the bill. hon, friend (sir G. Warrender) had alluded; and so far from that committee having GREEKS-Slaves FROM THE Morea.] violated the law, he was sure that its deci- Sir R. Wilson said, he felt it his duty to sion was founded on the soundest princi- address the House on a subject which ples of law. He agreed that nominees deeply concerned, not only the interests of ought to be abolished; and thought that humanity, but the national faith. Official if a committee had the benefit of two ex- advice had now been received, that-he pert counsel, they would seldom decide had heard even seven thousand persons, wrong.

but certainly-several thousand persons, Mr. S. Rice thought the constitution of men, women, and children, had been forelection committees bad. It was bad that cibly taken from the Morea, put on board their proceedings should be conducted the Egyptian fleet, and landed at Alexanwith closed doors. Whatever the strict dria, where they had been publicly sold rule of the House might be, no gentleman as slaves. The sufferings of these unwould say, that the two Houses of parlia- happy persons had been highly aggravated, ment could perform their functions with from their having been torn from their effect, unless the public were made country at a moment when the blessings acquainted with their conduct, and the of freedom had just begun to dawn upon reasons and principles on which they it. The right hon. Secretary had, on a decided upon public questions. But in a former occasion stated, that orders had committee up stairs every thing was been issued that none of the non-combatdecided irrevocably, and in the dark; and ting part of the Greek population should though it was known what decision they be removed. He would ask then, how it had come to, the reasons of that decision was possible, while such orders existed, were concealed. He would state one curious that the Egyptian feet, or rather that fact. A petition had been presented against remnant of a fleet which had escaped the the return of his hon. friend (Mr. Hume); battle of Navarino, should have been but there was not the shadow of a case allowed to commit this piracy; for, to tear made out on the part of the petitioner, women and children from their homes and and it was therefore voted unanimously, consign them to slavery was the worst of that the hon. member should not be called piracy? He wished to ask the right hon. upon for a defence: but, when the ques- gentleman, whether any official advices tion that the bon. member should retain had arrived in this country which explainhis seat came to be decided, four of the ed this transaction ? . He wished, also, to committee who had so voted unanimously, ask the right hon. gentleman whether any voted also, that he should not retain his measures had been taken by this country, seat. What possible reason could have by itself, or in conjunction with its allies, actuated these four, it was not for him to to redeem these unfortunate persons from divine; but he was sure that no such thing their bondage ? This reparation, at least, could have occurred if the doors had been was due to Greece, which had a right, open.

under the treaty of the 6th of July, to Mr. R. Colborne thought if the hon. claim the protection of the allied powers member's plan were adopted, that a little from wrongs like these, and all the relief debate would be got up upon every ques- that could be afforded them when the tion, however unimportant.

infiction of such wrongs had been allowed. Mr. Warburton said, that though long Mr. Secretary Peel said, he had already speeches might be an inconvenience, the stated, that in 1825, and consequently benefit which would result from the doors long before the protocol was signed by being open ought not to be left out of the the duke of Wellington at Petersburgh, consideration. Publicity was the true and long before the treaty of the 6th of corrective for the evil.

July, his majesty's ministers had received The Chancellor of the Exchequer | an indistinct intimation, that the comthought that every committee should have mander of the Egyptian forces intended a person of knowledge and experience to to take away the inhabitants of the Morea counsel and advise them. A committee, I to serve in Egypt; and before the treaty

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of the 6th of July was entered into, a dis- proper steps would be taken to restore tinct and formal intimation was given to those unhappy people who had been Ibrahim Pacha, that his majesty would carried away into slavery to the home from never agree to such an exercise of the which they had been so atrociously rerights of war, or allow the inhabitants of moved. the Morea to be converted into slaves by Sir J. Mackintosh said, that in 1825 a force. No attempt was at that time made project had been conceived by Ibrahim by Ibrahim to put this intention into prac- Pacha, of carrying off the whole populatice, and it was not therefore necessary tion of the Morea into slavery in Egypt, then to take any measures of prevention. and re-peopling the country with Arabs. He believed it was correct that some As soon as that intention had been known women and children had been taken at St. Petersburgh, a declaration of the forcibly from the Morea since the battle of strongest character had been issued, Navarino. Instructions had been given stating that the first attempt to execute it to the British admiral before the battle would be held to justify the most decided took place, and those instructions were measures on the part of the powers of consequently still in force; by which the Europe for its prevention. The abominBritish feet was directed to prevent any able outrage by which so many unoffendmovement whatever of the Egyptian force, ing women and children had been carried with this exception only,—that if any into captivity, seemed to be a sort of attempt were made to remove the Egyp- remains of the project of 1825; and tian army from the Morea every facility merited the promptest notice by this counshould be afforded, for the execution of try. He could not doubt that the inquiry, such an attempt; but it was perfectly un- in which the government was engaged, derstood, that the Egyptian forces only referred to the most convenient measures were to be removed, and that any attempt for restoring the unhappy victims to their at removing any portion of the population country, and he trusted that every effort of the Morea was to be resisted. On the would be made, not only to disclaim any 28th of December, a fleet, consisting of acquiescence in such an act on the part of forty-five sail, arrived at Alexandria. England, but to repair, as far as possible, This feet was the remnant of that which the consequences of it. With respect to had been engaged in the action at Nava- | the great general question connected with rino. These vessels had on board the this subject, he should at present abstain disabled seamen and soldiers, and also as far as possible from making any comsome women and children, but what the ments on it, although it was a topic upon number of them was he could not tell. He which he and those who thought with him had seen an account which rested upon observed silence with difficulty; and how tolerable authority, and that account much longer it would be possible for them stated that the number did not exceed to persevere in a silence which cost them six hundred. For the rest, he could so great an effort, and which might be assure the hon. member, that the subject liable to misconstruction, it was impossible was one to which ministers had given their for him to say. It was a little extraordibest attention. Immediately upon the nary, that, while the other powers, which arrival of the intelligence in this country, were parties to the Treaty of London, had instructions had been sent out to the declared their intentions plainly, England British admiral; and in a very short time alone should refuse to speak out. In he had little doubt of being able to enter France, the full explanation of M. Peyinto full explanations without any preju- ronnet, left no question as to what the dice to the public service.

policy of that country would he. Russia, Sir F. Burdett thought that the honour in a communication which was substantially of the country, no less than the interests official, had avowed to all the world the of humanity, was implicated in the ques- motives of her policy, and she was at that tion ; but he was bound to admit, that the very moment probably on the eve of exeobservations of the right hon. gentleman cuting it. Even the Turks themselves were so far satisfactory, that they displayed had made known the whole course of fraud no want of proper feeling upon the subject. and delusion which they had been pracAt the same time, he rejoiced that the tising upon all the powers of Europe for a question which called forth those observa- series of years. Under these circumtions had been asked; and trusted that stances, he would, shortly after the recess,

call the attention of the House to the SUPPLY OF Water to the METRO situation and duties of this country under POLIS.] Sir F. Burdett inquired when the treaty of the 6th of July. The more the Report of the Commissioners might he reflected upon the treaty in question, be expected the more firmly he was convinced of its Mr. Peel said, he understood that the justice, lawfulness, and wisdom.

report would be ready about the 21st of Mr. Bright said, he had never been con- the month. vinced of the wisdom of the treaty upon

Sir J. Yorke thought that the commiswhich the learned gentleman had laid so sion looked very much like a job. That much stress. He called upon ministers Mr. Telford, Mr. Brande, and Dr. Roget, rather to revise their course of policy, than should have been six months examining allow their feelings to hurry them into a whether there was a sufficient supply of war.

water for the town, and whether that water Mr. Secretary Peel said, there was one was of a wholesome quality, seemed to him point of the speech of the learned member inconceivable. for Knaresborough upon which he must Mr. Peel said, that the commissioners observe, lest he should be supposed to ac- had not been employed so long as six quiesce in it. The learned member said, months; and, in addition to an analysis that he presumed the “inquiry,” of which of the water, they had to examine the he (Mr. Peel), in a former address to the books and affairs of the water companies. House, had spoken, could be nothing else The commissioners were gentlemen of the than an inquiry into the best mode of highest character, and were incapable of restoring that part of the population re- being concerned with a disgraceful job. cently carried from the Morea to their Sir F. Burdett doubted whether any country. Now, he was not aware that it analysis would satisfy the public: a given was possible entirely to go that length. quantity of water might be perfectly clear, Undoubtedly, if the instructions of govern- but unless it was drawn from a pure and ment had been strictly complied with, the wholesome source, the inhabitants of the transportation of those persons would metropolis would never be satisfied. have been prevented. No blame was to The House adjourned to the 14th of be attached to the conduct of our fleet, April. the physical powers and means of which had been cramped by the battle of Nava

HOUSE OF LORDS. rino: but the orders, if it had been possible to have executed them fully, were to

Tuesday, April 15. prevent any movement of the hostile fleet, OFFENCES AGAINST THEPerson Bill.] unless one which should be sanctioned by The Marquis of Lansdowne moved the the English admiral, and of which the order of the day for the third reading of object should be to transport the Egyptian the bill to consolidate the laws respecting forces employed in the Morea back to Offences against the Person.

. he no objection to

at present stood the extent of the spolia- the passing of the bill, but he rose to obtion that had been committed was uncer- ject to one of its clauses. Their lordships tain. Unfortunately, too, those slaves had would find in the clause directing the been landed in Egypt, and sold in the punishment for the crime of murder, the public market. If the ships which con- usual punishment of the dissection of the tained them had been taken at sea, there criminal's body was omitted, and power could have been no difficulty about their was given to the judge of ordering the disposal ; but now they were probably criminal to be hung in chains. He was divided, and the property of private indi- certainly not one of those who on comviduals. At present he would go no fur- mon occasions contended for severity of ther than to repeat, that within forty-eight punishment. It had, indeed, been re

hours after the arrival of the news, the marked, that the law of this country was most active inquiry had been entered upon much too sanguinary. The punishment by government, as to all the facts connected of death was unhappily extended to many with the case. Sufficient information had offences of an inferior nature to the crime not yet been received ; but the investiga- of murder; and the distinction made by 'tion was going on,

dissecting the murderer's body appeared

to him to give an additional terror against VOL. XVIII.

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the commission of that greatest offence | Mr. Serjeant Adair, who stated, that it next to treason, and it was for the interest was of importance to confine that aggravaof the community that the distinction tion of punishment to the crime of murder; which had hitherto prevailed between that because it had the salutary effect of inand minor offences should be kept up. creasing that general terror which existed

That no effect would be produced on the in this country against that species of individual murderer, who had made up his crime. On these grounds he opposed the mind to the completion of the horrible crime, extension of the punishment of dissection by the punishment and the consequences to other crimes than murder. And, as whichwould follow theact, he must perhaps, the converse of that position, he thought admit; but still the additional punishment it not expedient to continue the clause as of dissection had operated, by a salutary it stood, which removed almost the only terror on the community, to keep up that distinction which existed between the horror of the crime of murder for which punishments of the most aggravated and the English people had hitherto been dis the minor offences, to which the punishtinguished. The ground on which the ment of death was unhappily affixed. alteration in the law was now proposed Hanging the murderer in chains, as prowas, according to the statements of the vided by the present bill, would not petitions which had been presented to operate in the same salutary way on the their lordships, the great difficulty which minds of the people. He had thought it existed in procuring subjects for dissection, his duty to submit his doubts to ibeir by which the science of surgery was im- lordships, and to suggest the expunging peded, to the great detriment of the com- of that part of the clause which took away munity, whose interest it was to have the punishment of dissection, on grounds surgeons properly educated. He believed theoretical and speculative. that that difficulty was complained of with Lord Tenterden concurred in the sentisome foundation, bat he was of opinion, ments expressed by the noble earl. When that that difficulty was not likely to be the bill was committed a first time, the diminished by public discussion in their noble marquis proposed the alteration in lordships' House. That difficulty was, the law now alluded to. It was then however, the ground upon which the understood, that he had no objection to clause had been introduced; because it the clause, though he desired another was presumed, that the dissecting the opportunity for further consideration on body of the criminal had the effect of a the subject, when the bill should be restigma, or acted as an aggravation of committed. Upon that occasion he happunishment on the feelings of society, pened not to be present, and had lost the which increased the dislike in people to opportunity of expressing his opinion. If give up the bodies of their relations for it were not now too late to make an dissection after death. That might be amendment, he should be desirous that the case; but their lordships would see the clause should be restored to its original that it was purely theoretical and specu- shape. The object of omitting the punishlative, and that there was great doubt ment from the bill was, because it aitached whether it was founded in truth; and if a stigma to the practice of dissection, theory and speculation were put in the which, if done away with, would give balance, in contradistinction to established greater facility for a supply of subjects, fact, the one could not be considered in and thereby promote the science of surany degree of comparison with the other. gery. Whether that would be the case He did, therefore, wish their lordships to he had great doubt; and when it was a reconsider the clause, and alter it ; and if matter of doubt, he should be unwilling that were the opinion of their lordships, that any alteration should be made in the he should suggest, that they leave the law as it now stood, which law he hoped punishment of murder as it now stood by would serve as an additional terror to law. About thirty years ago, a bill of a induce persons, if any thing could induce very different character was introduced in them, from the commission of that most he other House of Parliament, which horrible of crimes. He perfectly agreed went to extend the punishment of dissec- in what the noble earl had said, that when tion after death to burglaries and highway a man had made up his mind to the comrobberies. He remembered that that bilt mission of murder, no consideration of the was most ably and eloquently opposed by punishment could divert him from it; but

he thought that when the first idea arose the Resolutions, of which he had given in the mind of the commission of that notice, on this subject. He had brought unlawful act, it might be checked, from a forward Resolutions last year with a consideration of the disgraceful punish- similar object; namely, that of relieving ment of dissection; and if such a circum- the parties from the heavy fees and charges stance were only to take place once in now imposed on the renewal of Turnpike twenty years, the law would have proved Trust acts. He would briefly state the beneficial.

grounds on which he felt himself entitled The Marquis of Lansdowne said, that to call on the House to agree to the the ground on which the punishment of abolition of these fees and charges. He dissection was omitted in the clause, was did not share the opinion of those gentlethe statement of persons in the surgical men who held that fees on private bills profession, who represented that they should be altogether abolished. He bewould rather remain without the assistance lieved that fees were generally advanof that small supply of bodies which the tageous to the public; as he was certain law afforded them, if by that means a that in many cases they were necessary stigma would be removed, by which re- to protect property, and prevent the undue moval they hoped to obtain a sufficient consumption of the time of that House. number of bodies for purposes of science, But he would not agree to continue the without being obliged to make use of a fees on the renewal of Turnpike Trustsystem, which had the effect of exciting bills. It had already been the subject of crime in another direction : he alluded to discussion in two select committees. The the practice of body-snatchers, a practice latter of these had been appointed at his which placed men in a situation, by which own instance, the session before the last ; they were gradually led on to the com- and he could not express himself so conmission of other crimes. So long as the cisely as in the terms of the first paragraph present law afforded the only supply of of their Report [The hon. gentleman then bodies for surgeons, a road would be kept read the passage]. The committee apcontinually open to crime. As long as pointed in 1821, on the motion of his hon. the supply of subjects was inadequate to friend (sir Davies Gilbert), to inquire the purposes of instruction, the medical generally into the fees taken on private student would be driven out of this coun-bills, agreed to recommend the abolition try to complete his education. It could of fees on the renewal of Turnpike-bills, not, however, be an idle theory, that con- though in every other case they condemning the murderer to be dissected sidered the retention of the fees operated to prevent people from giving matter of public importance. The retheir bodies, after death, for the same commendation of this committee had, purpose. As long as it was thought however, not been carried into effect, and necessary to preserve this distinction be- the heavy fees to which Turnpike-bills tween murder and other crimes, by adding were subject were still exacted. Those dissection to death, so long would innocent fees were double what were required in persons have an abhorrence to submit to other instances, such, for example, as a what was regarded as a great punishment. Naturalization-bill, and were, in many No persons would voluntarily expose them- cases, raised to treble the amount of the selves or their friends to that which was private bills; indeed they were sometimes inflicted on murderers; though it was of increased to an indefinite extent. The great importance to science that persons charges had been so excessive, that they should, after death, be dissected. He had been matter of complaint throughout

, . would not, however, persevere; and it the country. The present system of fees was yet quite time for his noble friend to could not go on without some change. move his amendment.

The whole mortgage debt of the Turnpike The bill was read a third time, and, trusts in England, within the last two or with earl Grey's amendment, passed. three years, was 4,474,5301., and the

interest overdue amounted to 500,5811. HOUSE OF COMMONS.

In Wales, the debt was 238,1681., and

the interest 34,0781. In Scotland, the Tuesday, April 15.

debt was 1,327,9461., and the interest TURNPIKE Trusts Bill.) Mr. Lit- 263,9751., making altogether a total of tleton said, he rose to submit to the House 6,839,2781. This was independent of the

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