I never saw him till that night I saw him with a long pole and a curtain upon it, and he cried out, A High-Church standard! He stopped several coaches, and got money from them, and made them cry, High-Church. But to swear that this is the man, I cannot.

How many were there together? - Five or six hundred.

Was there anything like colors before them? - Yes, there was a curtain, and he that carried it, cried, High-Church standard! He stopped many coaches, and got money from them, and made them cry, High-Church!

it?

Sol.-Gen. Whence did he bring From Mr. Bradbury's meet

Atty.-Gen. After Willis was taken, you went to Newgate; now give an account, did you make any particular observations at the time. you saw the man display the banner? Did you take any notice of him? - Yes.

What did you take notice of him? - I took such notice, that I thought I should know him again.

Now, did you go to Newgate to see him? - Yes; but the place was dark, and his clothes and wig were altered.

What did you think of the man you saw in Newgate? - I did think it was the same man.

Now look at him, and see whether this is the same you saw in NewHis clothes were so much gate? altered, that I cannot tell.

Were there more that flourished colors; more than one? I saw but one.

Mr. Darnell [for the defense]. Pray, at the time you saw that banner displayed, was there any other fire in Hatton-garden? - No; I believe this was made first; and then the mob said, they would go to Mr. Taylor's.

What time was it that the fire was in Holborn? - About ten.

What time was that in Hattongarden? About eleven.

You say this curtain was brought out of Fetter-lane meeting. How do you know? Did you see it brought out of the meeting? - No; but I saw it brought out of the lane, and the people said it came from thence.

Do you remember what colored coat he had on? I cannot tell; it was either blue or green.

Do you remember what sort of hat he had on? - No.

Was it a laced hat, or a plain one? I cannot tell indeed.

You say you looked hard at him? - Yes; but I never minded his hat. Sol.-Gen. You heard people say, the curtain was taken out of Mr. Bradbury's meeting; who were they that said so? The people that were concerned in the fire, or them that stood by? - Them that stood by, as I might.

L. C. Baron. You say you went to Newgate shortly after this, to see this man? Yes, my lord.

And the man that you saw there, do you believe, or do you not, to be the prisoner at the bar? Yes, I do believe it was.

Mr. Darnell. Are you positive this is the man? No, I am not. When you went to

L. C. J. Newgate, the

man that you saw

there, did you believe him to be the person that you saw displaying the colors? Yes, I did.

How long was that after you saw him at the fire? About ten days.

L. C. Baron. Pray, what makes you less knowing, or believing, now, than you was then? My lord, his clothes are altered, and he has another wig on.

Mr. Darnell. Pray tell us any one thing you had, to know this man by? No other instance, but that he flourished the colors.

Do you know the color of his coat?
I believe it was blue.

Are you sure it was not green ?
I am not sure.

When you saw him in Newgate, what did you know him by? his features, I thought he was the

same man.

- By

Pray describe any one feature you knew him by.

L. C. J. It is difficult to describe a man's face, and so it is to describe his hand. If you were asked how you knew a man's hand, it would be difficult for you to describe it; and so if you were asked, how you know any man's face in court, unless there was something very particular in his face and yet there is something in the composition of a face, by which it is known, which none perhaps but a painter can describe.

-

Sol.-Gen. You say he is altered from what he was in Newgate? Has he not the same clothes on? He has quite another dress, and another wig; he had blue clothes on there.

And you say, you believed the man that had the colors, had blue clothes? - Yes, indeed I take them to be blue; but cannot be positive whether they were blue or green.

You have spoken about this matter already, on your examination, you have formerly considered it coolly, you ought to consider what you have said before, and to recollect yourself. The man you saw in

Do you believe this man to be him that you saw in Newgate? Indeed I cannot believe him to be the same.

Pray who brought that man to you? It was Mr. Hill, the keeper. Is he here? Let him be called. Then Mr. Hill was sworn.

Atty.-Gen. Do you remember Mr. Grove's coming to see the prisoner in Newgate? - I never saw anybody come while I was there.

Do you remember that he came

to see any of the prisoners? Grove. Justice Blackerby's clerk came with me, and we had a quartern of brandy.

Hill. — I did not remember him before, but I remember Justice Blackerby's clerk came, and somebody with him.

Sol.-Gen. - Who did you show him? The prisoner at the bar. What dress was he in then? Do you remember? Hill. - No.

Did you carry him to any other but the prisoner? - No; there were others upon the stairs, but they were women.

Was there any other prisoner? No.

And is this the man? - Yes.

L. C. J. Do you remember what clothes he had when he first came to Newgate; or at any time after? I do not know any but them he has on; I was not in the way when he came in. Mr. Darnell. Did you go up with that man?

- Yes.

Did you go into the room where the prison was? -I went to the grates.

Atty.-Gen.

When I asked you at first whether he was at Newgate, you could not remember till he refreshed your memory with a quartern of brandy.

L. C. J. Are you sure you showed him the prisoner at the bar? Yes.

Did you show him any other? No. . .

Then Robert Cubwidge was sworn. Sol.-Gen. - Do you know Mr. Grove? - Yes.

Do you remember you went with him to see a prisoner? - Yes.

What prisoner did you see there?
The prisoner at the bar.

Did you see any other prisoner but him? - No; we saw Dammaree and Purchase below, but no other above.

What clothes had he on then? He had a blue livery on.

Then Stephen Fletcher was sworn [for the defense].

Atty.-Gen. Are you an acquaintance of Grove's? - Yes; I lived in the same house.

Was it Good-Friday at night, after he had been at Newgate, that he told you this? Yes.

Did you ask him any questions about the prisoner; or did he tell you of himself? He told me he had been at Newgate to see Mrs. Miles's man; I asked if he said anything? He said no; that is not the young man that I saw with the curtain.

Mr. Darnell. The account I have of Grove, is, that he was a

tradesman, and broke, and now lives by gaming.

L. C. J.-If you have anything to examine to his reputation, you will do well to call your witnesses to it. Grove, what do you say to this? Grove. When I came from Newgate, I thought it was the man; and I told him no such thing; I told everybody I spoke with, that I believed it was the man.

L. C. J.- Did you tell him that you believed the man that had the curtain was in a green coat? No, not that night.

Mr. Darnell.Did you tell him so at any time? - Yes; but that was the Wednesday night; but when I went to Newgate, he had a blue coat; but I always believed him to be the same man.

L. C. J. Did he tell you he had a green coat on that night he had been at Newgate, or before? Fletcher. - It was before.

L. C. J.-I understood you, that when he came back from Newgate, he told you he had nothing to say to this man, for that the man that had the curtain had a green coat and brass buttons? - He said he could not be positive, for that man had a green coat and brass buttons.

Did he tell you that night that he had a green coat and brass buttons ? - I cannot tell whether it was that night.

Mr. Darnell.-You say, once he told you he had a green coat and brass buttons; what did he say when he came from Newgate? He said he could not be positive, for that he had a blue coat on.

Just. Tracy.-Did you, after you came from Newgate, say, you could not be positive he was the man? Grove. I did tell him I could not be positive.

Mr. Thomson. Did you tell him you believed him to be the man? Grove. Yes; I said I did believe it, but I would not swear it was he.

not trouble your lordship with any more witnesses; we hope we have well accounted for the time he was out of his mistress's house, for that seems to be all that sticks upon him, that his being out so long might give room for him to be concerned in this tumult. But by the witnesses it appears, that the curiosity of seeing a mob, which he had never seen before, might take up some part of his time; and the two fires being so near, that he could not go from one, without seeing the other, engaged him to go to them both. There was a friend too that met him, with whom he walked up and down the street an hour; but we think it shows that he was not a ringleader, or aiding or assisting in pulling down the meetinghouses. . . .

But upon the main question, we must humbly insist, that there is no evidence to fix it upon the prisoner. There are not two witnesses to any overt act for the same treason, nor do those witnesses ascertain it to be the prisoner; for now it appears a little plainer, that his first charge was against a footman in a green livery; he declared it was a footman in green with brass buttons; and when he came to Newgate to see this man, he believes him to be the same man; that is the most of his evidence; but when he came home then to his companion, that he lived in the house with, he believed it was not the same man, and he could not swear it was the same man, because he had a blue coat; and now he would carry his belief so far as to believe, that he then had a blue coat, with black buttons; and surely, nobody could mistake a blue coat with black buttons, for a green coat with brass buttons; whatever may be supposed of the color of blue by firelight, altering by that light towards a green, yet it cannot turn black buttons into brass ones. . . . Attorney-General. - My lord, we think the proof is sufficient; and notwithstanding anything that has been said by the counsel for the

defendant, it stands unimpeached, and it is clear, that the prisoner is guilty of this treason. Mr. Darnell does not deny but that, in point of law, all those people that were gathered together, to execute this design, are equally guilty of high treason: so that the question is only, whether this prisoner was one of those people that were gathered together? That which he insists upon is, that though this man was there, yet no proof is made that he was aiding towards the carrying on this design; therefore we think what our witnesses say is consistent, and not impeached by what was said of the other side.

The first witness that we called, though he was not acquainted with the prisoner, yet he says, there was a man in a blue livery, that was so remarkable in leading the mob, with a curtain on a pole, that he could not but take notice of it; and that when he went to Newgate, to see the prisoner, he took him to be the same man that carried the colors; and though he cannot be so positive as to swear directly, yet he now believes it is the same man, though he cannot be positive. I am sure I should be very far from pressing anything further than the nature of the evidence will bear: therefore I hope I do not misrepeat what he says. Therefore it leaves it somewhat uncertain, yet, whether the prisoner at the bar was the man that carried those colors? But that which puts this out of dispute, and makes it clear that this is the man, is Lunt's evidence. . . . As to what they insist on, that they have called witnesses to invalidate the testimony of Grove, that he made some mistake about the color of his clothes, that is no great matter to be relied on; for blue and green, by candlelight, are pretty much of the same cast, especially at a transient view; but you see the view he had was sufficient to know his face, but the light of the fire occasioned