which they are since so identified for over one hundred and fifty years. ALFRED T. EVERITT. High Street, Portsmouth.

THE LASCARIS (7th S. iii. 88, 151).—Traces of the Lascaris are to be met with at a place somewhat nearer to Nice than Vintimiglia, and it is to this circumstance, in all probability, that the authority quoted by MR. M. H. WHITE refers. The lords of Vintimiglia had a residence in the mountain village or town of Castellar, situated beneath the Berceau mountain to the north of Mentone, and at an elevation of 396 feet above the sea level. Castellar is a favourite expedition, as well as one of the easiest, from Mentone, from which it is about two English miles distant. Its picturesque narrow street contains a mansion which formerly belonged to the Lascaris, but when I visited it, in 1867, differing little, with the exception of one large apartment, from the other squalid dwellings in its vicinity. The author of Monaco et ses Environs,' published in 1863, says:

"Là fut l'antique château des Lascaris, seigneurs de Vintimille. La cuisine voûtée et les salles des divers étages sont ornées de bahuts gothiques, de faïences anciennes et de fresques tirées indifférement de la mytho

logie et de l'Ancien Testament."

There is no allusion here to armorial bearings, but I think I remember such upon the entrance portico. FRED. CHAS. Cass, M.A.

Monken Hadley Rectory. P.S. Since writing the above, intelligence has reached this country of the devastation which visited the beautiful Riviera on the morning of Ash Wednesday. In the list of suffering towns the name of Castellaro (Castellar) is included, where it is reported that forty persons have been killed or injured.

A. H.'s reply. Quite accidentally I came upon what we want in 7th S. i. 356, under the heading 'Peers.' If your contributors, in selecting the needs of those who consult your indexes it would catch-words of their notes, would consider the save an immense amount of trouble. Can any one say whether the present Bishop of Durham is Earl of Sadberge; or is this title now a matter of history, like the tenure of Conyers of Sockburn? Are there any other bishops who are invested with temporal peerages when they receive "restitution of temporalities"? Q. V.

ROBIN HOOD (7th S. ii. 421; iii. 201, 222).—If COL. PRIDEAUX will refer to the Rev. J. Hunter's researches as published in No. 4 of " Critical and Historical Tracts" he can scarcely fail to arrive at the conclusion that Robin Hood was a real person in the reign of Edward II. An interesting review of Mr. Hunter's paper appeared in Chambers's Edinburgh Journal, Aug. 28, 1852, entitled 'A Search for Robin Hood.' See also Household Words of 1872, vol. vii. p. 88. WILLIAM J. BAYLY.

"BIBLIOTHECA NICOTIANA" (7th S. iii. 89, 155). The collection of books about tobacco and of objects relating to the use of tobacco in all its forms made by my brother, the late William Bragge, F.S.A., was dispersed through Mr. Wareham, of Castle Street, Leicester Square, in January, 1882. Mr. Wareham could probably tell J. J. S. where Bain's 'Tobacco' (17 vols., 1836) may now be seen. The most interesting of the objects, viz., the pre-historic pipes from the mounds of North America, the ancient Mexican pipes, the pipes of the North American Indians made before their art was influenced by European civilization, and all others from uncivilized countries were purchased by the British Museum. JOSEPH BRAGGE. Birmingham,

Some information will, I think, be obtained respecting noble Greek families in Italy from "A BANBURY SAINT" (7th S. iii. 128, 158).— Madame Junot's 'Memoirs.' I have not the work Your correspondent may consult also Chambers's by me, but I know that she goes into the question,Book of Days,' vol. ii. pp. 316-7, and 'Barnabæ for the Bonapartes were partly descended from Itinerarium,' revised edition by W. Carew Hazlitt, Greek nobles in Italy. 1876, sub "Banbury." F. C. BIRKBECK TERRY.


GRACE BEFORE MEAT (7th S. i. 228, 357, 416; ii. 56, 133).—Anent this subject, I was struck when reading Oceana' with the author's surprise when, during his visit to Kawan, he found this custom reverently observed not only at his host's table, but also in the New Zealand farmhouse. So it is refreshing to find that this good old-fashioned habit has extended to that colony at least, and I cannot think it will ever "die out" in the Mother Country.

S. M. P.

THE ABBOT OF HULME (7th S. ii. 400, 437).Like MR. ATTWOOD, I have been anxious to trace out this reference, and was not much helped by

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tionary,' published in 1884, as well as in the half-crown supplement to my first edition, published in the same year, p. 841, col. 2.

question was discussed in N. & Q.,' 1st S. viii.
292, 504. One correspondent, J. R. P., says:
"This pronunciation is universal in North Corn-
wall and North-West Devonshire." In 'Pilgrim's
Progress' Mr. Great-heart says :—

Dispondency, good man, is coming after,
And so also is Much-afraid, his Daughter.


[Other communications to the same effect are acknowledged with thanks.]

It is the technical term which Cotgrave thus explains : Meurtrieres, holes (in that part of a rampier that hangs over the gate) whereat the assailed let fall stones on the heads of their too neer approaching adversaries." It was also used to denote various openings in a wall to shoot out of. The full term, murdrieres a louuert, as used in my quotation (s. v. "Louver") meant those pierced loopholes which may sometimes be seen in THE ROLL OF BATTLE ABBEY (7th S. iii. 189). old gateways, presenting the appearance of narrow-At the dissolution of the monastery of Battle cruciform slits. There is a long article upon them the lands belonging to it were granted to an an(I am told) in Viollet-le-Duc's Dictionnaire cestor of the Montagues, which family sold the Raisonné de l'Architecture. The word had, in property, and in all probability took the famous fact, three senses: (1) murdering, adj. fem.; (2) roll to Cowdray House (their residence), near big gun; (3) loop-hole. The sense meant here is Midhurst. This mansion was destroyed by fire in the third. See "Meurtrière ” in Littré. 1793, and the document is generally believed to have perished in the flames.

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One of the towers at Berwick was called the

Murderer," as appears from the survey taken in the time of Henry VIII., recently printed in Archæologia Eliana, i. 87. J. H. WYLIE.


MR. JULIAN MARSHALL'S explanation of the former word is most probably correct. Cotgrave has: 66 Meurtrieres, Holes (in that part of a rampier that hangs over the gate) whereat the assailed let fall stones on the heads of their too neere approaching adversaries." He has also: "Visiere meurtriere, A Port-hole for a murthering Piece in the forecastle of a ship." For allusions to a "murdering piece" vide Nares's Dictionary.' F. C. BIRKBECK TERRY.


DAUGHTER AND DAFTAR (7th S. iii. 189).— My little work on the Dartmoor parish of Widecombe contains the following piece of evidence on this subject, in a copy of the inscription on a mural tablet in the church to the memory of Mary, the young wife of John Elford, who died in 1642. The memorial rhymes state that -she twyns brought forth And like A fruitfull tree with bearing dy'd. Yet Phoenix like for one there two suruiu'd Which shortly posted their deare mother after Least sin's contagion their poore soules might slaughter. This rhyming of "slaughter" with "after" is, of course, only indirect evidence of the similar pronunciation of the word daughter; but seeing how very commonly this word was spelt dafter by those whose orthography followed no rule or guide but sound, there would seem to be little room for question that both daughter and “slaughter' were formerly pronounced as we still pronounce the similar word "laughter." R. Dymond, F.S.A. Exeter.

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MR. COWPER asks whether daughter was ever pronounced so as to rhyme with "laughter." This

Several copies of this most important and historic of lists have at different times been made. For further particulars I beg to refer your correspondent to An Essay on English Surnames,' by Mark Antony Lower, who has devoted a very interesting chapter to the subject.

Normandy, and may be considered as altogether The so-called copy by John Foxe was made in derived from independent sources, and not a mere repetition of the original roll.

Sir William Dugdale throws a doubt upon the authenticity of even the first document, and does not hesitate to say that the monks who compiled it inserted names of persons that took no part in the Conquest, and did this knowingly to flatter their descendants. J. BAGNALL.

Water Orton.

See J. B. Burke, 'The Roll of Battle Abbey Annotated,' 12mo., Lond., 1848; Rev. J. Hunter, F.S.A.," On the (so-called) Roll of Battle Abbey," in 'Sussex Archæological Collections,' vol. vi. p. 1, 1853. ED. MARSHALL.

The Rev. Mackenzie E. C. Walcott, in his 'History of Battle Abbey,' states that of this famous roll ten anonymous lists are extant, differing materially in names and numbers, but yet bearing a common resemblance. But these do not constitute the bede-roll of the Abbey, nor even an authentic record of the knights and men who formed King William's army; Their authority depends on the concurrence between the entire work of their various writers and the genuine tradition preserved in Domesday and by the chroniclers. Holinshed (who copied from Grafton, who borrowed from Mr. Cook, Clarencieux), in 1577, was the first author who claimed for such a list the proud title of the Roll of Battle Abbey, and published 629 names. Stowe, a few years after, enumerated 407, and claims, like his pre

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[COL. HAROLD MALET refers to copies, differing from each other, supplied by Holinshed, Dugdale, and Leland, and says the last saw the roll, and professes to give a literal transcript. MR. PEACOCK refers to Lower's Eng lish Surnames, and MR. E. H. MARSHALL to Horsfield's "History of Sussex' and other works previously mentioned. The REV. EDMUND TEW, M.A., says Fuller's 'Church History of Britain,' book ii. doct. vii., supplies a long account of the roll, with catalogues of the knights who engaged under the Conqueror, &c. Other contributors repeat the information supplied above.]

DESAGULIERS FAMILY (7th S. ii. 428, 473; iii. 113). The following account of this family is taken from Mr. Smiles's Huguenots in England and Ireland' (new edition, Murray, London, 1876), pp. 245-6 :

book of the kind that had appeared in England. It
would appear from this work that the Doctor also de-
signed and superintended the erection of steam-engines.
Referring to an improvement which he had made on
Savary's engine, he says: According to this improve-
ment, I have caused seven of these fire-engines to be
erected since the year 1717 or 1718. The first was for
the late Czar Peter the Great, for his garden at Peters-
burg, where it was set up.' Dr. Desaguliers died in
1749, leaving behind him three sons, one of whom, the
eldest, published a translation of the Mathematical
Elements of Natural Philosophy,' by Gravesande, who
had been a pupil of his father's; the second was a bone-
ficed clergyman in Norfolk; and the third was a colonel
of artillery and lieutenant-general in the army, as well
as equerry to George III."
ROBERT F. Gardiner.

Cawthorn's last two lines must not be read as literally true. Chalmers, who quotes them, says ('Biog. Dict.,' xi. 492) that Dr. Desaguliers "died Feb. 29, 1744, at the Bedford Coffee-house, Covent Garden, where he had lodgings, and was buried March 6th, in the Savoy."

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R. F. S.

'DE LAUDIBUS HORTORUM' (7th S. iii. 149, 213). -A book with this title is attributed to Gilbert "Dr. Desaguliers was another refugee who achieved considerable distinction in England as a teacher of meCousin by Joachim Camerarius II. in his 'Opuschanical philosophy. His father, Jean des Aguliers, was cula de Re Rustica' (Norimbergæ, 1596), which pastor of a Protestant congregation at Aitré, near contains a list of authors of treatises "De Re RusRochelle, from which he fled about the period of the Revocation. His child, the future professor, is said to tica," among which is "Gilberti Cognati Nozareni de have been carried on board the ship by which he escaped Hortorum Laudibus, Basileæ, apud Oporinum 1546." concealed in a barrel.* The pastor first took refuge in Being interested in Cousin and his works, I forGuernsey, from whence he proceeded to England, took merly wasted much time in an unsuccessful search orders in the Established Church, and became minister for this book, which is included neither in Niceron of the French chapel in Swallow Street, London. This charge he subsequently resigned, and established a school nor in the much fuller list of Cousin's works conat Islington, at which his son received his first education. tained in 'La France Protestante.' I have, howFrom thence the young man proceeded to Oxford, matri- ever, come to the conclusion that no such book culating at Christ Church, where he obtained the degree exists, but that a poem of Gilbert Cousin's, entitled of B.A., and took deacon's orders. Being drawn to the Ecloga de Laudibus Horti,' first printed in his study of natural philosophy, he shortly after delivered afterwards reprinted in the first volume of 'Gil'Poematiorum libri iv.' (Basle, Oporin, 1546), and berti Cognati Nozereni Opera' (Basle, 1562), p. 412, is intended. I think I formerly consulted Museum; but if one is not to be found there, I a copy of the Opera' in the Library of the British shall be happy to show my own (the Sunderland copy) to MR. FORBES SIEVEKING. If any of your readers should see quoted a ' De Laudibus Hortorum' by G. Cagnati, of Nocera, in Naples, whose life is given in the Biographie Universelle' and Biographie Générale,' he may like to be informed that Cagnati and his biography are alike imaginary, the inventions of M. L. M. A. Dupetit-Thouars. See Quarterly Review, January, 1884, p. 216.

lectures at Oxford on hydrostatics and optics, to which

he afterwards added mechanics.

"His fame as a lecturer having reached London, Desaguliers was pressingly invited thither; and he accordingly removed to the metropolis in 1713. His lectures were much admired, and he had so happy a knack of illustrating them by experiments, that he was invited by the Royal Society to be their demonstrator. He was afterwards appointed curator of the Society; and in the course of his connexion with it, he communicated a vast number of curious and valuable papers, which were printed in the Transactions. The Duke of Chandos gave Desaguliers the church living of Edgeware; and the King (before whom he gave lectures at Hampton Court) presented him with a benefice in Essex, besides appointing him chaplain to the Prince of Wales.

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In 1734 Desaguliers published his 'Course of Experimental Philosophy' in two quarto volumes,-the best

* In a foot-note Mr. Smiles says: "This statement is made in the House and Farm Accounts of the Shuttleworths of Gawthorpe Hall' ('Chetham Society Papers,' 1856-8). The Shuttleworths were related by marriage to the Desaguliers family; Robert Shuttleworth, one of the successors to Gawthorpe, having married Anne, the second daughter of General Desaguliers (son of the above Dr. Desaguliers), who was one of the equerries of George


I fear there is no bibliography of the literature of gardens which would be of much use to MR. SIEVEKING. He is probably acquainted with the well-known work of Charles Estienne, 'De Re Hortensi Libellus,' copies of several editions of which will be found in the British Museum, and Benoit Court's 'Hortorum libri xxx.' (Lyons, 1560). Though each of these is little more than a list, with explanations, of the names of plants and

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trees, yet the first few pages of Charles Estienne's book contain an interesting account of the gardens of the ancients, with references to several passages in Latin authors where they are referred to. R. C. CHRISTIE.

Glenwood, Virginia Water,


WAS ANY ONE EVER BURNT ALIVE? (7th S. iii. 208.)-As to the case of Savonarola, Miss BUSK, so far as I am acquainted with it, may be right or wrong. To doubt, however, that "anybody ever was "burnt alive is, to my mind, of all historical doubts" the most extraordinary one that I ever heard or read of. The whole current of history is against it. To go no further back than the times of Nero, does not Tacitus say of him that he caused multitudes of Christians to be burnt alive? These are his words ('Ann.,' lib. xv. c. 44): "Ut ferarum tergis contecti......flammandi, atque ubi defecisset dies, in usum nocturni luminis urerentur." Did not the Druids* much the same by prisoners of war, whom they offered in sacrifice to their gods? And, not to mention others nearer to our own times, are we to to take the cases of Cranmer, Bradford, Ridley, and Latimer as nothing more than " ghastly myths," supported as they are by evidence as strong as evidence can be? What does Lingard surely no friendly witness-say of Cranmer's burning? This: "When the fire was kindled, to the surprise of the spectators, he thrust his hand into the flame, exclaiming, This hath offended.' His sufferings were short, the flames rapidly ascended over his head, and he expired in a few moments." As well, indeed, question the beheading of Anne Boleyn, Sir Thomas More, or Bishop Fisher, as that any one was ever burnt alive. The fact may be "ghastly," but is certainly no "myth." EDMUND TEW, M.A.

[This subject approaches so nearly polemics, further replies are not invited.]

THE O'CONOR DON (7th S. iii. 128).-I think J. J. S.'s surmise in regard to the meaning of Don or Dun added to surnames, is the right one-at least I have always held a similar opinion. Personal appearance speedily earned a name for itself in these early days, so it may have happened that this particular O'Conor, being darker skinned than his namesakes, won for himself the name of The O'Conor Don par excellence, i. e., the Dark


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Our forefathers do not seem to have

The Druids, too, according to Pomponius Mela, like the Suttees in India, were accustomed to immolate themselves on the funeral pyre of their dead: "Erantque qui se in rogas suorum, velut unà victuri libenter immitterent (lib. iii. c. 2). It cannot be doubted that such persons were burnt alive. That the Suttees were, I dare say might be attested by living witnesses. One of the Druidical maxims was that "prisoners taken in war are to be slain upon altars, or burnt alive in wicker, in honour of the gods."

objected to be the bearers even of nicknames. In his privately printed work on 'Surnames' (Boston, 1855), Mr. B. H. Dixon says: "In Ireland, the head of the O'Conors is called 'The O'Conor Don."" ROBERT F. GARDINER,

TAVERN SIGN, "PLOUGH AND SAIL" (7th S. ii. 388, 475).-In support of this as the original, and not a corrupt form of tavern sign, I find in my collection an Ipswich halfpenny token, payable at Robert Manning's, no date, which has on the reverse the legend, "God preserve the Plough and Sail," surrounding a full-rigged ship and plough with team. The expression is intelligible enough as equivalent to agriculture and commerce. Guernsey.


A CLAIMANT TO THE AUTHORSHIP OF 'Vox STELLARUM' (7th S. iii. 164).—An old volume of Francis Moore, Physician, which, in the introducalmanacs for 1790 contains Vox Stellarum,' by tion, says :

bespeaks its public Utility, lays the Editor at the same "The rapid Sale of this Annual Performance, while it Time under the highest Obligation of every Exertion in his Power, both to please and inform his kind Readers. Certain it is that both the original Plan, and the manner of conducting it, first brought it to the Fame it has long since acquired. And it appears evident to the the same Plan, and the same Manner must be strictly present Author that, in order to continue its Reputation, adhered to. He gives his Opinion in Mundane affairs according to the Rules laid down by the Ancients, and followed by the first ingenious Projector of this Ephemeris, and in his Footsteps he wishes so closely to tread, that he hopes it may be said of that learned Man now at Rest, Etiam Mortuus loquitur.” The measurement of rain is taken at Royston. The second part of the almanack gives "" an account of the Eclipses of the Sun and Moon, &c., in the year 1790. By Henry Andrews, Astronomer.' "It contains a "hieroglyphick," prognostications, &c. Liberatus,' by John Partridge; 'Old Poor Robin' Bound up with 'Vox Stellarum' are 'Merlinus 7th S. ii. 57); 'Speculum Anni; or, Season on the Seasons," "by Henry Season, Licensed Physician and student in the Celestial Sciences near Devizes"; Ouria Awμaтa,' by Tycho Wing, Philomath Horizon of the ancient and renowned Borough Town "(calculated according to Art, and referred to the of Stamford, formerly a famous University)"; Aras Ovpávios, The Coelestial Atlas; or, a new Ephemeris for the year 1790,' by Robert White, Teacher of the Mathematicks; and the 'Gentle man's Diary' and 'Ladies' Diary' for the same year. These almanacs were all "printed for the Company of Stationers, and sold by Robert Horsfield at their Hall in Ludgate Street." Each one has the Government stamp on the title-page. According to Haydn's 'Dictionary of Dates this company "claimed the exclusive right of publishing almanacs until 1790, in virtue of letters patent

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from James I. granting the privilege to them and to the two universities." A. A.

WOMAN: LADY (7th S. ii. 461; iii. 10, 135, 170). -Among the definitions of lady given by Johnson is, "a word of complaisance used of women." Now if the butcher, the baker, or candlestick-maker likes to speak of any one of his or any other man's womenkind as a lady, pray let him. It pleases him. Better still, it pleases the woman, and it amuses "superior" people. Notwithstanding Rochefoucault's dictum to the contrary, speech was given us to express our ideas; and though the butcher's notions of what constitutes a lady may be erroneous, yet that is no reason why others should be offended; nay, rather they should have a better opinion of the man, for he has acquired something of that higher breeding which teaches courtesy. And if every shop-girl likes to be called a "young lady" what does it matter? Why destroy a fiction that is pleasing to many? C'est l'imagination," said Napoleon, "qui domine le monde." "The snobbish tendency to call every person in petticoats a lady" is nothing to taking offence where none is intended, or to standing on dignity, ignoring and wounding the sensibilities of those who, with an ideal before them " of all that is perfect in" woman, are trying, according to their light, to rise from their dull commonplace surroundings to higher things.


In this district among the common folk lady is the term used when speaking slightingly of one of the fair sex, as "" A nice m' lady she is!" Welldressed women are ladies. "She looks the lady"; "She speaks like a lady." The woman who is poverty-stricken, tattered, and torn is woman. The professional beggar-woman, or the gipsy women who sell clothes-pegs, or others who get their living by roving as petty traders and finding things that are not lost, have a peculiar and interesting mode of addressing ladies of whom they beg or whom they persuade to buy. "Do buy this, lady"; "Gi' me han'sel this morn, lady"; "You'll want it sure-ly, lady"; "Thank you kindly, lady"; "Lord bless you, lady." Once, after I had given one of these a trifle, "God bless you, gentleman! May gress alwis grow graen for you!" This I thought a pretty sentiment. THOS. RATCLIFFE.


In my previous note I endeavoured to show that woman was probably an entirely respectful form of address in the judgment of the translators of our Authorized Version, and I hoped that some one would have sent you a note on the use of yúval in Greek. No one has done so, perhaps because every one is assumed to know it. It is, however, safer to put on record the fact that St. John represented Christ's address to His mother by a word almost always employed in Greek with respect

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and affection. By consulting the 'Indices in Tragicos Græcos,' I find that yúval and a yúval (without epithet) are used seventy-two times in Euripides, six times in Sophocles, and four times in Eschylus ('Agamemnon only). Out of these eighty-two uses I think none can be said to imply disrespect or want of affection, though one or two (in the Agamemnon,' and addressed to Clytemnestra') may have a slightly reproachful tone. The comparative frequency of the address in Euripides appears to me to be a proof that it was common in actual conversation. I cannot doubt, therefore, that St. John by using yúval implies that Christ addressed his mother in the tenderest and most affectionate terms. M. H. P.

DR. TERROT (7th S. ii. 507; iii. 55).-Your correspondent will find some information as to the late Bishop Terrot, with a portrait, in Crombie's 'Modern Athenians' (Edinburgh, A. & C. Black, 1882). W. S. D.

burgh, was born at Cuddalore, in India, 1790; he Charles Hughes Terrot, D.D., Bishop of Edindied in 1872. He was the only child of Capt. Elias Terrot, H.M. 83rd Regiment, killed at the siege of Bangalore. His mother was of Huguenot extraction; her maiden name was Fonteneau. Capt. Elias Terrot was the second son of Capt. Charles Terrot, commandant of the garrison at Berwickupon-Tweed and of the Royal Invalids, and "Fire Master of His Majesty's traine of Artillery in Ireland.", His mother was Elizabeth Pratt, who owned large fisheries at Berwick-upon-Tweed, now totally destroyed by the building of a bridge across the river. The Terrot family are descended from Jean Charles de Terrot, seigneur, and Anne Gerard de Puycherim, who left France during the persecution of the Huguenots in 1685. Being of the "petite noblesse" of France, he was allowed at once to enter King William's army in the Regiment Holstein, from which he passed into the Regiment Camboin till 1689, in which year it was broken up. Not wishing to be recognized as a Frenchman in the English army, he dropped the title of "de," which has not since been resumed. The Terrot family was connected with those of Rochefoucault de Ponthieu, de Sailly, de Surgères, de Granger, &c. Capt. Elias Terrot's eldest brother was General Charles Terrot, of the Royal Artillery. He served his country sixty years.

The Bishop of Edinburgh had a son, Charles Terrot, colonel in H.M. 29th N.I. Regiment. He died in 1876, having served from 1836 and gone through the Indian Mutiny. He was attached to different regiments as interpreter. A. M. T.

[From a lady, wife of a cousin of Dr. Terrot; sent by the REV. E. MILNER BARRY, Scothorne Rectory, Lincoln.]

CHARLES ERSKINE, LORD JUSTICE CLERK (7th S. iii. 169).-As to query 1 of the series pro

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