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French scribe has miswritten Adford for Acford into “ Yetminster," and remarks that this form of because he did not understand it. These spellings initial mutation is “not unusual ; the Domesday are easily understood when we have the clue to names Everslage, Eiford, and Ednodestune having, them. When we have not, it would be quite a for instance, become Yearsley, Yafforth, and Yedmistake to trust them.

naston." This has reminded me that Erdington, Next, to take the Domesday Etiminstre for in Warwickshshire, is (or was thirty years ago, to Yetminster. It is obvious that Eti- cannot mean my knowledge) called by country "people "Yenat, because it is dissyllabic. It is equally obvious ton," and suggests to me to offer a few similar that it cannot represent the M.E. atie, because the illustrations of DR. TAYLOR's remark. Adsalt scribe had not the gift of prophecy, and could not (Staffs) is otherwise called “ Yeatsall"; Yarmouth tell that that form would be invented after his (I. W.) was anciently. “Eremuth"; Yeavering death. When we collate this Eti- with the Mod. (Northumb.) was Adgefrin" under Edwin of Eng. yet, very common for • gate," and the direct Northumbria ; Earl Hill, in the same county, is descendant of A.-S. geat (with ge for y), we can known also as “ Yeard" Hill ; York, we all know, see that the scribe simply dropped the initial y for is the A.-S. “Eurwic”; Yarnton (Oxon) was the reason that he could not pronounce it, as it "Hardintone" at the date of Domesday, and subwas not in his (pronounced) alphabet.

sequently “Erdington "; and Yattendon (Berks) For the same reason he dropped the initial y in appears to have been, in 1258, “Etyndon.". other names.

As to Yednaston, the collation of it Readers of Shakespeare, too, will remember “ Yedwith the Domesday Ednodestune is of great service, wardfor “Edward" in the mouth of Falstaff because we thus recover the lost second syllable. (Henry IV.'); and I have note that "yerle" for I would suggest that the A.-S. form was ēnd-nothes- “ earl” is “very common in MSS. of the time of tün; the combination éad-noth is easy, and pro- Henry VIII.” In Lancashire we say “yed" for bably occurs, and the A.-S. ĉa sometimes produces "head"; and an anecdote (I do not remember & y sound in Mod. E., as in Yedward for Edward. where from, but it may be worth reproducing as But this is a guess.

amusing) contains something similar from ScotEiford is a very poor guide as compared with land. Lord Rutherford, a Scotch judge, asked a Mod. E. Yafforth. Th was another sound which shepherd wbat he could say for an east wind in the Anglo-French scribe could not pronounce. May: “ Weel," was the reply, "it dries the yird Surely in this case, whatever may be the right (soil, earth); it slockens (refreshes) the ewes, and solution, the Domesday spelling is useless. No it's God's wull.". JOAN W. BONE, F.S.A. known force could turn Eiford into Yafforth by

Birkdale, Lancashire. regular means.

Collating Yearsley with Everslage, the most “SLOPSELLER" (8th S. iii. 289).- What the likely original is eofores-lēage, where eofor is the meaning of a slopseller is scarcely needs explanation, gen. case of eofor, a boar, and leage is the dat. case since the word speaks for itself and may be seen of lēuh, a lea. The same A.-S. original would also over the shops of many who sell slops in seaside produce Eversley. The loss of v occurs in e'er, towns. Moreover, in a directory of the home ne'er, for ever, never, &c. _Initial y might arise counties (Kelly's), I find slopsellers given by themfrom the diphthong eo; cf. E. you, A.-S. ?ow. selves in the trades portion of it, as well as being

I only give these as guesses, and shall be glad named in the present 'London Directory.'. to be corrected by any one who better understands But what I wish to ask is, Are cheap ready-made the phonetic laws of English. My point is that we clothes—as stated in the editorial note to the must control the Domesday forms by our knowledge query-properly described as being slops ? I of the actual changes that take place in English. think not, because slops are themselves one parti

I deny the fact of "corruption" in language, calar garment of a sort, viz., the huge baggy trousers except by the way of forcible and intentional sub or breechos which our seamen adopted after the stitution, which only takes place when an attempt petticoat period (if the petticoats were not themis made to give a thing a new sense.


selves slops), and which were more huge and fish, from écrevisse, gives an apparent sense to half more baggy then than now. On the other hand, the word. I think it also likely that the A.-S. Falconer - author of the 'Shipwreck '-in his Eofor-wic, i. e., Boar-town, whence Mod. E. York Marine Dictionary,' gives slops as being " name (where again y is due to co), was a deliberate sub- given to all species of wearing apparel, bedding, stitution for a Celtic name which the English &c., which are supplied to His Majesty's ships in voted to be unintelligible. This is not

commission "; while, to mark slops as being parti. tion,” but intention. It just makes all the dif- cularly a naval garment, the French dictionaries of ference. WALTER W. SKEAT. daval terms translate their hardes de matelots into

slops." Shakespeare uses the word twice in this The_Rev. Canon TAYLOR adduces evidence senso, first in 'Much Ado About Nothing,' IIL ii., from Domesday for the change of “Etiminstre” saying, "a German from the waist downwards



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all slops "'; while Steevens, the commentator, thinks Edward George Barnard, of the parish of St. it necessary to explain this with a foot-note to the Nicholas, Deptford, Kent, and of Gosfield Hall, effect that “slops are loose breeches "; and again near Halstead, Essex, was M.P. for Greenwich in 'Love's Labour's Lost,' “Disfigure not his slop" from December, 1832, until his death on June 14, (IV. iii.). Nathan Bailey (1721), however, puts 1851. He was a ship-builder at Deptford. the slops as a naval garment very far back, saying

G. F. R. B. in his Dictionary' that they are a wide sort of breeches worn by seamen." Ready - made

Edward George Barnard was a shipbuilder at: clothes are, therefore, properly not slops at all

, Deptford, co. Kent. On his first election for the though custom bas afixed the title to them, in borough of Greenwich, in December, 1832, he much the same way that, in the East End, another declared himself in favour of the immediate title is given to the same kind of articles, viz., the abolition of slavery, of triennial parliaments, of a title of “reach-me-downs."

repeal of the assessed taxes and the "taxes on JNO. BLOUNDELLE-BURTON.

knowledge,” and, if it should be necessary, of the Barnes Common,

vote by ballot. In January, 1835, he was again The following appears in 'The London Trades-out a contest in 1841. In 1847 he encountered

returned for the borough, and was re-elected withman’ (1747), by R. Campbell :“The Slop-shop sells all kinds of Shirts, Jackets, Salomons, who was afterwards elected his successor.

successfully the opposition of Mr. Alderman Trouzers, and other Wearing Apparel belonging to Sailors, ready made. It is a Business of great Profit, but requires Mr. Barnard, who had purchased Gosfield Hall, no great Skill to become master of it."-P. 301. near Halstead, Essex, from the Marquis of Buck See also Admiral Symth’s ‘Sailor's Word-Book,' ingham, died there June 14, 1851, aged seventy


DANIEL HIPWELL. 9.v. “Slope ” and “Slop-shop,


17, Hilldrop Crescent, N. Liverpool.

OLD ENGLISH SPINNING (8th S. ii. 368).This is a word of some age. For we read of an There is a short article on this subject in The item: "For making a payre of sloppys for Jakes Book of Days,' i. 68. Another, of greater length, when he played the Shipman," among the Lord and well illustrated, I remember in the Penny of Misrule's charges, in 1522. (* Household Ex- Magazine. The year I cannot give positively, pop ses of the Princess Mary,' in Collier's 'Andals,' but I have a reference to the article as occurring in vol. i. p. 9.) EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M. A. No. 274, which would, I calculate, appear in 1837, Hastings.

The volume for that year I have unfortunately lost CHURCH OF SCOTLAND, CAMPVIRE (7th S. x. 69, or mislaid, but in vol. ix. (1840), now before me, 117, 212; xi. 257).—In 1891 I asked a question there is a series of articles on The History of a about the communion cups of this church, which Cotton Gown,' in one of which an illustration of were exhibited at the meeting of the Society of the “ little wheel” (as used in Germany) is given. Antiquaries of Scotland in that year. A very This is very similar to two wheels we had in my full description of these cups is to be found in the home in South Notte. They were somewhat Society's Proceedings for 1890 and 1891; but I have different in the driving wheel, but the principle had no answer to my inquiry as to how and when was the same. We had many articles in the house they became the property of Lord Egerton of of my mother's own spinning, and I have often Tattoo, who showed them in Edinburgh two years beard her speak of the time before her marriage) ago. It may interest some of your readers to learn when she and her sisters used to spin the greater that they have just been presented to the Cathedral part of their household linen. I never saw a Church of Manchester by his lordship, and were spinning-wheel in use.

C. C. B. placed on the communion table, filled with choice flowers, for the first time on Easter Sunday.

A description, with an illustration of a lady

spinning, from a richly illuminated manuscript of APPLEBY.

the fourteenth century in the British Museum, BARNARD (8th S. iii. 327).—Mr. E. G. Barnard, will be found in Homes of Other Days,' by of Deptford Green, and of Gosfield Hall, Essex, Thomas Wright, F.S. A. whom I well recollect as a neighbour of my father

EVERARD HOME COLEMAN. in the last-named county, was a ship-builder at 71, Brecknock Road. Deptford, as, I believe, bis father bad been before him. He sat as a Liberal M.P. for Greenwich Days, with an account of the employment, vol. i.

There is such a print in Chambers’s ‘Book of from December, 1832, down to the General Election

ED. MARSHALL. of 1852, when he retired. There are no details of pp. 68, 69, 70. his life given in Dodd's 'Parliamentary Com

[Will ARANEOLUS send address ?-We have a lotter for panion' during those twenty years of his Parliamentary life.

E. WALFORD, M.A. “ZOLAESQUE" (8th 8. ii. 468; iii. 54, 115, 213). — Ventnor.

Of course your correspondent J.B.S. isentitled to en


in print.

tertain his own opinions respecting the length of real- WATERLOO (8th S. iii. 307).- The story appears ism to which writers are allowed to run ; but not one as follows in Wellington Anecdotes : a Collection of hisobservations has changed by one jot my opinion of Sayings and Doings of the Great Duke,' London, of Zola as a writer ; and in both his attempts 1852, pp. 32-3, as an instance of the Duke's "Mag. to get bimself elected amongst the sacred forty be nanimity":has most signally failed. I still think that his name " At Waterloo the colonel commanding the British will be mainly associated with literary filth, and I artillery observed to the duke, 'I have got the exact could mention two or three other French writers range of the spot where Bonaparte and his staff are who have run him close in Holywell literature. As standing: If your grace will allow me, I think I can pick

some of them off.' 'No, no !' replied be, 'generals-into the Debâcle; I was most intimate with the chief have something else to do in a great battle besides officers of the Cent Garde ; for many years I almost firing at each other.” lived among them, and after the break down

Ed. MARSHALL was visited in my house in England for many weeks by some of the chief officers, both those Duke of Wellington' (p. 639). The answer was

The story is told in Mr. Gleig's 'Memoir of the who had remained with the Empress, and those who

characteristic: No, no, generals commanding “wept ” that they might not be parted from the armies in a great battle' have something else to Emperor. I know the common talk

of these gentle- do than to shoot at one another.” Napoleon's men, so that I am not forming a random opinion view of the subject was different. when I say that Zola has wholly failed to solve the

EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M.A. great secret of the debâcle. To place Zola on the Hastings. same pedestal as our immortal Sterne is literary high treason.

I very well remember an old Waterloo man J. B. S. says, "It passeth my understanding relating this story at my father's table in my boyhow those who rail most at Zola's works never fail hood, say 1847 or 1848, but I have never seen it to read them.” In what other way would they be

H. S. G. competent to form any just opinion on their merits ?

It is years since I saw the book, but I believe When Colenso issued bis two great books on my first acquaintance with this story began when Genesis and Exodus I made myself entire master I 'read Sergeant Cotton's book on the Battle of of his arguments. Calling one day on a clergyman Waterloo.

PAUL BIERLEY. with whom I was intimate, I happened to say that I had read them, when he flew out into a violent

BRACEBRIDGE Hall (8th S. ii. 288, 371, 471, passion, and begged I would never mention the 518; iii. 273).- In 'The Baronial Halls......of Engname of Colenso in his house again. He raved land, London, 1858, vol. ii. p. 5, under the bead. against the books as infidel, immoral, and untruth- ing“ Brereton Hall" is the following:ful. I quietly asked if he had ever read a line of “In 1722 the male line of the family became extinct them, or even seen the outside of them. He rose in by the death of Lord Brereton. The hall and estates a storm of passion, saying if he had ever done so sabsequently passed, through female inheritance, to A. he should be defiled beyond hope of redemption: To which is appended this note : "Brereton is and left the room. Of course, I left the house ; but, according to J. B. S., this friend of mine was S. C. Hall, the author of the text of the book,

the Bracebridge Hall of Washington Irving." quite as competent as I was to pass an opinion on the merits of Colenso's books.

should be a good authority on the point. E. COBHAM BREWER.

THORNFIELD. P.S.—What would persons say to see “Flaubert

SECOND Sight (8th S. iii. 307).- A somewhat ism” introduced into our ‘N. É. D.'? Zola must remarkable instance of the improvement of the eyedie, and that in a few years. All that he bas written sight at an advanced age will be found in St. James's is for the passing moment.

Gazette, August, 1885, in the account given of a

centenarian, Mrs. Catherine Voss, the daughter of LAVINGTON (84b S. iii. 287).—James Carrington, an old Staffordsbire potter, who left off the use of watchmaker, will be found in the records of the spectacles at seventy. In the Times obituary, Company of Clockmakers, with the name and July 22, 1889, her death was reported at the age abode of his father, and also in Overall's history of a hundred and five years, and it is stated that of the Company, wherein are five Carringtons. If " her hearing, sight, and memory were unimpaired, he is the man I remember, he was well known in and to the last she was able to read and write London as having a bottle-nose, or a great pro

without spectacles.


Burslem. tuberance on his nose, and was called Nosey Car. rington. I had a sketch of him from an etching When I lived in Yorkshire I often heard it on glass. It is, however, possible this Carrington said that people whose eyesight was bad when they was a descendant, and may have been named were young would be able to see well when they Thomas Carrington.

HYDE CLARKE. grew old. In the case of my own mother it was

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When she was a girl she could distinguish meaning a maiden or a doll, was also used to exobjects at a short distance with difficulty; but as press the pupil of the eye. There is an interesting she grew older she had splendid long distance eye- criticism on the word in Longinus, 'On the Subsight, though she used spectacles to read with. I lime,' iv. § 4:believe the idea of “second sight” is very common. “Xenophon, in his account of the Spartan polity, has

PAUL BIERLEY. these words : Their voice you would no more hear than

if they were of marble, their gaze is as immovable as if I knew an old gentleman, a literary man, they were cast in bronze; you would doem them more learned, and a Portuguese poet of some reputation modest than the very maidens in their eyes. To speak He at about seventy-five found his sight very of the pupils of the eye as 'modest maidens' was a piece defective, shortly after he had a slight illness and of absurdity becoming Amphicrates rather than Xeno

phon...... Timæus, however, with that want of judgement his early sight came back to him. He could again which characterizes plagiariste, could not leave to Xenoread without glasses, and even rather small print. phon even this piece of frigidity. In relating how He died recently, about ninety years of age, and Agathocles carried off his cousin, who was wedded to retained the rejuvenescent sight till his death. The another man, from the festival of the unveiling, he asks, cutting of new teeth is a comparatively common instead of maidens in his eyes." From translation of

• Who could have done such a deed, unless he had harlots experience. These strange phenomena are natural 1. L. Havell, B.A. suggestions that encourage sanguine dispositions to

C. R. HAINES. seek after potable gold, divine ambrosia, and Uppingham, elixirs of life.



VILLE (8th S. ii. 309, 431 ; iii. 273).—A very “THE BABIES IN THE EYES" (8th S. iii. 181).— extraordinary instance of early maternity is to be In the dialect of this part of Lincolnshire the found in the Transactions of the Bristol and Glou. reflection of objects seen in the human eye or in cestershire Archæological Society, vol. x. 'Notes any other small reflecting surface are called on the Manors, &c., of Birt's Morton and Pendock,' babies,” or rather“ babbies."

by Sir John Maclean, F.S.A., contains a careful A Winterton lady a few years ago saw some pedigree of the Nanfan family. From it the followlittle children intently gazing at a polished door- ing is extracted and abridged (p. 220). Richard koob. On asking what there was to see, one of the Coote, second Lord Coote, of Coolony, who died children answered, “Please m'm we're lookin' for 1700, married in 1676 Catherine, daughter and babbies." Cleveland speaks of some one

heir of Giles Nanfan, lord of the manor of Birt's Angling for babies in his mistress' eyes.

Morton. She was born Feb. 9, and baptized Feb. 13,

• Poems,' 1665, p. 117. 1665, at St. Giles-in-the-Fields, London. At the Aphra Bebn tells of some one who

time of her marriage she was eleven years of age. Sigh'd and lookt babies in his gloating eyes.

Her son and heir, Nanfan Coote, who became City Heiress,' Act III. sc. i.

second Earl of Bellamont, was born 1677, when John Scott employs the same idea

his mother was only twelve years of age. After To look babies in one another's eyes.

the death of Lord Coolony, in 1700, she married • Christian Life,' 1696, part iv. p. 70.

successively: in 1702, Capt. Wm. Caldwell, The earliest example in the 'New Dictionary' Alderman Wm. Bridgen.

R.N.; in 1720, Samuel Ritts, Esq.; in 1737,

She had no issue is of the year 1593. EDWARD PEACOCK.

by these three husbands, and died March 12, A large collection of instances of this conceit 1737/8, aged seventy-two. These facts seem well may be made by referring to Grosart's edition of established, and Sir John Maclean is too accurate Marvell,' i. 114; Halliwell's Dictionary of a genealogist to admit into a pedigree what he Archaic Words,' i. 129; the 'N. E. D.,' i. 606, does not credit. He himself ootes the extraordinary col. 3. To these add G. Wither, quoted in incident. A. W. CORNELIUS HALLEN. 'N. & Q.;' 2nd S. X. 205. But in addition to the foregoing, reference should be made to the Henry Green was executed (however unjustly) as a

FAMILY OF GREEN (81 S. iii. 267). -As Sir interesting notes of Dr. Delitzsch on Psalm xvii

. traitor, he has no Inquisition: bat a note on the 8,"keep me as the apple of an eye,” where the Close Roll, 23 Ric. II., stating that he held original means not“ apple,” but “madikin.” of an Combreton Manor, co. Cantab., helps us to trace eye, i.e., the little image reflected in it. The his descendants. His ancestors are less easy.. I learned commentator confirms this from Syriac and should advise KANTIANUS to consult the following Assyrian, shows that the phrase is an ancient term Inquisitions :of endearment, and quotes the Indian Upanischads.

Henry Green, 30 Edw. III., ii. 45; 34 Edw. III., Papil" has an analogous origin. 'Psalms,' 1887, ii. 12; 36 Edæ. III., ii, 1; 43 Edw. III., 48; i. 297.

W. C. B.

Prob. Æt., 15 Hep. VI., 48; 7 Edw. IV., 1. The writer of the note on the above does not Margaret, widow of Henry Grene, 16 Edw. mention the Greek use of kópn, a word which, IV., 2.

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Ralph (of Comberton), 5 Hen. V., 41.

Constance, who married John Stafford, Earl of Thomas (of Claxton, co. Leic.), 15 Ric. II., 24; Wilte. If KANTIANUS really wants details, I can 5 Hen. V., 39; 2 Edw. IV., 4; 4 Edw. IV., 21; give him some eight generations of the main line, Prob. Æt., 9 Hen. V., 66.

Sir Henry the younger's children and grandMary, wife of Sir Thomas Grene and John children.

THOMAS WILLIAMS. Nottingham ; dower (from Claxton), 9 Hen. V., 1; Aston Clinton. 9 Hen. VI., 2; 12 Hen. VI., 20.

Sir Henry Green, “creature of Richard II.,' The following notes may help to cast light on the pedigree which the Inquisitions, and especially co. Northampton.

was of the family of Green, of Green's Norton, the Probationes Ætatis, will, I hope, enable Sir Henry Green, Lord of Buckton, married KANTIANUS to construct:1378-9, Inq. of Thomas Mauduyt. Maud, wife and had issue,

Catherine, the heiress of the Draytons of Drayton, of Henry Green, Knt., daughter, is heir, and æt.

(1) Sir Thomas Green, Lord of Buckton. 24 years (Nicholas's 'Calendar of Heirs,' Addit.

(2) Sir Henry Green, of Drayton, who assumed MS. 19,706, 2 Ric. II., letter M).

bis mother's arms (Az., & cross eng. gu.). See 1399, Oct. 21, grant of goods of Henry Grene, Halstead, 'Succioct Genealogies of the Noble and deceased, to his children, Thomas, John, Henry, Ancient House of Alno,' &c., London, 1685 (HalMary, and Philippa (Patent Roll, i Hen. IV., stead being the pseudonym of Henry, Earl of Part 1).

Peterborough), which gives pedigrees, deeds, &c. 1400, Sept. 15, Henry Grene married Maud; The work is rare, but there is a copy in the British both deceased. Their son Ralph is beir of his Museum. Also see Bridges's 'History of Northmother (Close Roll, i Hen. IV., Part 2).

amptonshire. 1401, Feb, 2, livery of raiment ordered from the wardrobe to Maud Grene, of the suite of damsels Britannia,' vol. ii. p. 180, ed. 1789 :

The following is an extract from Camden's of the King's hostel (Patent Roll, 2 Hen. IV., Part 2).

“Sir Henry Greon, Chief Justice of England temp.

Edward III., succeeded the Draytons here (Drayton), 1416, May 6, charter of John Grene, son and and his son Henry for his inviolable allegiance to heir of Sir Henry, wherein he mentions “ Ralph Richard II. was surprised in Bristol Castle, and beheaded my brother” (Close Roll, 3 Hen. V.).

by Henry IV. His heirs female brought it to the 1419, Feb. 16, Katherine, widow of Ralph brought it to the Lord Mordant, her first husband, whose

Staffords, Earl of Wilts, one of whose heirs female Grepe (Close Roll, 6 Hen. V.).

descendant was created Earl of Peterborough." 1420, June 14, pardon for unlicensed marriage of John Notyogham and Mary, widow of Thomas vol. vi., having reference to the Greens of Green's

There is an article in the Herald and Genealogist, Grene (Patent Roll, 8 Hen. V.). 1439, March 6, marriage contract of Henry

Norton, and attempting to prove their Yorkshire Grene, ar., and Constance, widow of John Paulet, origin, but the data given do not seem very trust


F. W. G. Knight, to marry within three months (Close Roll, 17 Hen. VI.).

Italian Idiom (8th S. ii. 445, 498 ; iii. 37, 171, 1454, June 8, Isabel Grene, daughter of Dame 289).- I do not know which Mk. Young will conPhilippa, deceased, who was daughter of Robert, sider the higher authorities for deciding as to the Lord Ferrers, and wife of Thomas Grene, Knight, use of voi in addressing royal personages father of said Isabel. Thomas, son and heir of number of persons who are not known to bave had said Philippa (Close Roll, 33 Hen. VI.).

any connexion with the Court, and therefore may 1472, June 12, pardon for unlicensed marriage be presumed to have no special knowledge of its of Richard Midelton, ar., and Maud, widow of sir usages, or the correspondent quoted by me, who Thomas Grene (Patent Roll, 12 Edw. IV., Part 1). bas off and on acted as equerry in Italy for the

1482, Oct. 8, Sir Thomas Greve made bis wilí, last ten years, and who, at my request, took such Friday before Nativity of our Lady, anno 2 extreme care to be accurate in this matter that he (Sept. 3, 1462). His widow, Dame Mawde, mar- referred bis pote, before sending it, to another ried Richard Middleton, ar. Thomas Grede, ar., equerry, who had had even greater experience than their son and heir (Close Roll, 22-3 Edw. IV.).

himself. If we are talking of two different things HERMENTRUDE.

there is no need of further discussion; but if it is a Sir Henry Greene (Grene in the Rolls of Parlia-question as to the correct mode of addressing in ment), "q? feust adjuggez a la mort a Bristuyt," speech royal personages in Italy, I think there July 29, 23 Ric. II. (so in Rot. Parl., 13 8. IV.), always with them and who are thoroughly saturated

can be no higher authorities than those who are was of Drayton, a younger son of Sir Henry Greene, with Court


HOLCOMBE INGLEBY. of Greed's Norton, Cb. Just. The eldest branch ended in two coboiresses, married to Lord Vaux INSCRIPTIONS ON POOR-BOXES (8th S. iii. 228). and Sir Thomas Parr. The younger, or Drayton -Perbaps these two instances of ancient poorbranch ended in Sir Henry's great-granddaughter | boxes may be of interest to more than one reader

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