and learned gentleman must himself admit, that to go into an inquiry at that period could not lead to any beneficial result. He would recommend that advantage should be taken of the interval between the close of the present session and the beginning of the next, to obtain the report of the commissioners, and to procure further evidence. He should have no sort of objection to enter into the inquiry early next session, and to allow that inquiry to be as ample and complete as the hon. and learned gentleman could wish. Enough had already transpired to excite a public feeling against the duke of Manchester; and he thought it was not fair to aggravate this prejudice by entering into an inquiry which could not be brought to a satisfactory conclusion. On the one hand, the government had more evidence to procure; and on the other, the hon. and learned gentleman, who had already obtained so much evidence, and who shewed no want of a zealous disposition to obtain evidence, would have an opportunity of making his case more complete, so that both sides would come to the discussion at the beginning of the next session better prepared fully to elucidate the matter. like severe or unkind judgment against | mass of evidence collected in the progress him. It was a strong presumption, not of the inquiry, he thought that the hon. only that his grace had conducted himself with propriety, but that it was his own conscientious belief that his conduct would bear investigation. Had he made this proposal at the commencement of the business, it would have entitled him to this favourable construction; but much more was he entitled to it, when he made this proposal, after knowing the impression which had been made, the exaggerations which had gone abroad, respecting the case of these individuals in this country, and after he had reviewed, in consequence, all his own proceedings, and had closely examined the conduct of every officer concerned in the transaction. The hon. and learned member for Peterborough had observed, that if the duke of Manchester had done wrong, he had probably been misled. In this opinion he entirely concurred; but it was yet to be shown that the duke, in what he had done, had exceeded his authority: and that he himself entertained no apprehension as to the result of his conduct, was at least to be presumed from the readiness with which he courted inquiry into it. The main feature in the case then came to be considered-namely, what there had been in the conduct of other persons apart from that of the duke of Manchester, which Mr. Brougham rose, to request his hon. afforded ground for complaint; and, upon and learned friend to accede to the prothat point he was free to say, that govern- position of the right hon. Secretary oppoment had at least so far thought there site, which he thought, the state of the was ground for investigation, that the session considered, was the best calculated commissioners in the West Indies had re- to obtain the ends of substantial justice. ceived instructions (and in about a month As the evidence stood, the transaction hence they would be in Jamaica) to ex- was a most iniquitous one. These three amine into all the circumstances, and points would have to be made out: first, transmit home a report generally upon that there had been proof that the comthe transaction. Under these circumstan- plainants were aliens ; secondly, that there ces, he was certainly not disposed to had been the sedition imputed; and thirdmaintain the proposition that no further ly, that there had been ground for sending inquiry was called for. He admitted that them away without being heard in their it was, and that it ought to be had; but, defence. Now, as the case stood, it was both the offer made by the duke of Man-nonsense to talk of conflicting evidence; chester and the course of justice required the proof of the birth was as clear as could that they should be separated, and not be desired. What might arise out of the involved one with the other. The inqui-papers further to be produced, he could ry into the other parts of the case could not co-exist with the inquiry into the conduct of the duke of Manchester. He was prepared to admit the necessity of inquiry; but it was morally impossible, at that late period of the session, that it could then be gone into and, brought to a determination. When he considered the distance of the place, and the voluminous not judge; but the matter stood as he described it at present. With reference to the postponement of the committee, he would further observe, that it was only just to take the case of the individuals into the consideration of the House. They were highly respectable men; they had been ruined by their banishment; and had hitherto been supported by the contribu tions of some benevolent individuals; but certainly, as this delay was to take place, some means of existence ought to be afforded them by parliament. Mr. Sykes deprecated the idea of adjourning the inquiry for another year; but if such were the wish of the House, he would not be positive in opposing it. This, however, he would say, that it was the duty of the House to provide for the maintenance of the complainants during that time, as they were totally without funds, and supported by the charity of friends. Mr. Grossett said, he took a different view of the case from the gentlemen opposite. He thought these persons might be guilty, and he denied that they were entitled to be provided for. Mr. W. Smith hoped the House would support these injured individuals, without any reference to the view just thrown out by the hon. member. Mr. Brougham reminded the hon. member, that all his statements were derived from private letters, and that all the evidence which had been brought before the House by his hon. and learned friend had been taken on oath. Sir C. Forbes thought this a case of greater oppression than any he had ever heard of in the East Indies. Dr. Lushington then replied, and animadverted with great warmth on a pamphlet, published by an hon. member (Mr. Grossett), stigmatizing the character of the unfortunate petitioners in the most unwarrantable manner. He had read that pamphlet with the utmost disgust, and with contempt the most unmitigated. He would accede to the proposal of the right hon. Secretary for postponement, but he called upon the House, in the mean time, to consider the destitute condition of the parties; and he relied upon the right hon. Secretary, for the institution of a full, entire, and free inquiry, in the next session, and to facilitate his exertions to obtain justice for the parties concerned. The motion was then, with the leave of the House, withdrawn. BUCKINGHAM HOUSE BILL.] On the order of the day for the second reading, Mr. Bankes expressed his regret, that a site had not been chosen on which a palace might be built more accordant with the opulence of the country and the dignity of the sovereign. He thought that Hyde-park or the Regent's-park would be much more eligible. The Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted, that it would be desirable to have a palace in which the dignity of the Crown and the personal comforts of the sovereign might be consulted; but it was not the wish of his majesty, in the arrangements now in contemplation, to infringe on the conveniences of the public, by any encroachments on the parks. It would, no doubt, be desirable to have a site for a palace, in which accommodation might be afforded, not only for his majesty, but for the different branches of the royal family, the ambassadors, and the great officers of state. He had seen the splendid plans of Inigo Jones, for a royal palace, which he could wish to see erected; but it could not be accomplished in any of the royal parks, without infringing materially on the comforts of the public. Hyde-park would therefore be an injudicious selection, as far as the public was concerned, and as respected the sovereign himself; for though it might be desirable to have the residence of the king public, to a certain degree, it was also necessary that it should afford the means of privacy. If the palace were built in Hyde-park, it would be necessary to have enclosures round it, and if plantations were now made, it would take some twenty years before they were of sufficient growth to secure that degree of privacy which would be desirable; and even this, if it could be acquired, would be a great encroachment on the accommodation of the public, whether it was in Hydepark or Kensington-gardens. It would be found, also, that the Regent's-park would be at an inconvenient distance for the despatch of public business. With respect to Buckingham-house, there might be inconveniences, but there were advantages belonging to it which could not be found elsewhere. As to the abandonment of Carlton-house, it did not arise from any capricious taste on the part of his majesty. It might be said rather, that instead of his majesty wishing to leave that house, the house seemed disposed to leave his majesty. The lower part of the house consist ed originally of offices, but was now changed to apartments where his majesty reside and when his majesty had company in the upper, they were obliged to be propped up. The house had not been furnished for these thirty years, and was quite unfit in many other respects royal residence. He did not give any for a of an opinion, on the question of expending a million, ora million and a half, ona suitable palace for his majesty; but, supposing such a measure to be adopted, what was to become of his majesty in the interim? And, supposing a royal palace to be afterwards erected, the present buildings would not be lost to the country. It was not an improbable thing that we might have a queen dowager, or an heir apparent, each of whom would require a residence. As to Carlton-house, by its removal open view would be obtained from Regent's-street to the Park and the Horseguards; and, on that supposition, buildings might be erected which would be highly ornamental to the metropolis; and at the same time government might so dispose part of the ground situate in that neighbourhood, as to produce an income sufficient to defray the expense of some of the projected improvements. Part of the site of Carlton-house might be advantageously applied in the erection of buildings for the accommodation of the Royal Academy and the National Gallery. For the former, the Strand was most inconvenient; and for the latter, the British Museum was not the most proper place. With respect to Buckingham-house, it was absolutely necessary, for the comfort of the sovereign, that some improvements should take place. It was in its present state, desperate dirty. The expense, he would admit, might not be less than 200,000l.; but even if it were not to be the permanent residence of the sovereign, it would still be an ornament to the metropolis, and highly desirable for the accommodation of other branches of the royal family. The bill was read a second time. HOUSE OF LORDS. Friday, June 17. RATE OF INTEREST IN INDIA.] The Marquis of Hastings rose, to introduce a bill to explain the clause of the act of the 13th of George 3rd, which had been supposed to limit the rate of interest on loans made in India to 12 per cent. He objected, we understood, in the first place, to the opinion given by the law officers of the Crown on the construction of the clause of this act. He paid the greatest deference to their opinion; but he must dissent from it, when he found it in contradiction with the system which had been acted on for half century in India. It surely could never be maintained that the simple opinion of a counsel, however respectable, should su persede so long a practice. This, it was true, was not likely to happen now; but bad times might return, and their lordships should be careful not to establish such a precedent. The opinion given purported, that the clause in question extended to the whole of India, even to powers totally independent of the EastIndia company-than which nothing could be more unjust, when it was considered what the practice had been. The preamble of the act showed what the meaning of the clause was. It was made penal to take a higher rate of interest than 12 per cent, because, under the plea of interest, presents had sometimes been corruptly taken; but the framers of the bill never dreamt that they were competent to restrain British subjects from taking any rate of interest in the dominions of an independent prince, over whose states they had no authority. If this could be supposed, the greatest confusion and inconsistency would appear in the subsequent practice of the government of India. How could acts done in foreign independent states be made prosecutable and recoverable only in his majesty's courts in India? This would be to suppose that a penalty was enacted which these courts had not the means of inflicting. The noble marquis then proceeded to show, that the construction put upon the act of parliament by the law-officers of the Crown was inconsistent with regulations which had been subsequently made by the supreme government of India. These regulations had the force of law. They were not issued until after they had been registered in the supreme court of justice, and they were annually laid before parliament. These regulations had sanctioned the lending of money at a much higher rate of interest than 12 per cent. A regulation was promulgated in 1793, authorizing the recovery of interest at 24 to 37 per cent. Another regulation, made in 1803, extended the rate of interest to 30 per cent. These regulations, and the practice which had been constantly followed, clearly showed, that the court of directors and the government of India had never understood the act to put any limit on the rate of interest, with respect to contracts made by British subjects domiciled in the territory of a foreign prince. On these grounds he submitted to their lordships a bill to amend and explain the act of the 13th of George 3rd. After the first reading, he should move that the opinion of the judges be taken, to ascertain whether the bill he now introduced clearly and effectually explained what ought to be in the meaning of the clauses of the act relating to the rate of interest. The bill was read a first time. HOUSE OF COMMONS. age at which judges were appointed, with very few exceptions, to the bench, and more particularly during what might be called the dynasty of the present lord chancellor. His opinion was, that 5,000%. while in office, and 4,000l. on retiring, was a fit and proper salary. Mr. Secretary Peel said, that nothing would be more absurd than to establish, as a general regulation, that a judge should not be appointed until, or should retire at, a certain age. Considering the bodily labour to which a judge was sub character in his profession and sufficient professional qualification, he saw no reason why want of age should be a disqualification. He had no such impression on his mind, that 60 was a proper age. The effect of this increase would be, to induce men to undertake office who had sufficient bodily power to undergo its fatigues. JUDGES' SALARIES BILL.] On the order of the day for the third reading, Mr. Brougham said, that his opinion re-ject, provided at the age of 45 he had a mained unchanged as to this bill, which he believed to be unjust and uncalled-for. Let the House only look at the progressive increase of the salaries of the puisne judges. A few years ago their salary was but 3,000l. a-year, and 25, or rather 33, per cent was then added, to make up for the increased price of the articles of life, and that was deemed sufficient. The prices lowered; but no reduction of the salary was the consequence. Then followed the restoration of the currency, which must again have made a difference in their favour, amounting to 25 per cent more, independent of the reduction of taxes, and other branches of their expenditure. The consequence of these several additions since the year 1809, was, that the judges' salaries were raised in the proportion of 7,000l. a-year, as compared to the 3,000l. with which they were satisfied 15 years ago. If granting these large and unnecessary allowances to the judges, was evincing a faithful stewardship of the public purse, then he did not know what the meaning of an unfaithful steward was. He wished to see the dignity of the judicial situation upheld; but he disliked to see it done at this expense; and still more he disliked their being placed in the track of promotion, or translation, like the bishops; because he was convinced that in the law, as in the church, such prospects were detrimental to the public service. Mr. John Williams concurred in the observations which had been made by his learned friend, and regretted that ministers had persevered in carrying the measure through the House. He knew the difficulty of making any general regulation for the particular age at which a judge ought to retire; for some men were as competent to transact business at 70 years of age as others were at 60. It was, how ever, painfully remarkable to notice the Mr. Hobhouse thought the augmentations had been carried to an extent beyond all reasonable endurance. Why should the judges be paid more than the Secretaries of State? He was one of those who thought that the dignity of a judge was not dependent upon the amount of his salary. Nor could he see the propriety of stimulating the judges to move out of their present quiet circle of society, and rear the younger branches of their families at the west end of the town. Besides, he had to complain that several useless offices were still maintained about these courts. So decidedly opposed was he to the proposed augmentation, that he meant to move, as an amendment, that the sala. ries of the judges be reduced from 5,500/ to 5,000l. The increase was considered by lawyers of different politics as entirely too much. There was another subject to which his learned friend had not adverted he meant the principle of making the puisne judges immoveable. Mr. N. Calvert thought there was still a great disproportion between the full salaries and the retiring allowances of the judges, which must have the effect of inducing men to cling to office at a time of life when they were unfit for its duties. He had seen judges on the bench who were labouring under two of the disqualifying infirmities of old age-deafness and peevishness. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that if he were disposed, he could not now increase the amount of the retired allowances, although it was competent for the House to reduce it. He contended for Mr. Serjeant Onslow said, that he per- The bill was read a third time. Mr. Hobhouse then moved to leave out "five hundred." Upon which the House divided: Ayes 45; Noes 74. The bill was then passed. SIR ROBERT WILSON.] On the motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, career of his gallant friend, a period of twenty-nine years of service, had been interrupted by a measure which preceded all inquiry. He would ask any hon. member who heard him, whether, in consequence of any thing which had taken place, either there or elsewhere, his hon. and gallant friend was less valued and cherished by his profession, or less esteemed by the House or the country? Sure he was, that every man who heard him would answer in the negative. And, was such a man to have his military glory thus at once and for ever blasted? His hon. and gallant friend had been dismissed without either trial or inquiry. He sought inquiry; he courted investigation; but he was refused. He alluded to this part of the case, only for the purpose of calling to the recollection of the House the temMr. Abercromby said, that as the per, the moderation, the great forbearance Speaker was about to leave the chair, he with which his hon. and gallant friend begged to call the attention of the House conducted himself upon that occasion. to a subject of much interest, and to That conduct, on the part of his gallant which he was sure the House would lend friend, was a source of sincere gratification a favourable ear. He wished to call the to his friends, and he was sure there were attention of the House to the condition of many gentlemen on the other side who one of its members-a person who had regretted, that what they conceived to be performed the most meritorious services their duty compelled them to vote as they to his country, and on whom foreign did. He confessed, that seeing that this princes had conferred the highest honours might perhaps be the last sitting of the -he meant his hon. and gallant friend the present parliament, he was inclined to member for Southwark. He would first think that the sentiments of many memstate, most distinctly and unequivocally, bers, hitherto adverse, must now be that he did not wish to attach the least changed upon this question. Indeed, he blame to the persons at whose instance would venture to ask them in what light his gallant friend had been removed from they now viewed the conduct and chathe army, and still less would he say any racter of his gallant friend. He appealed thing which could cast the least reflection also to many gallant officers who had on his royal highness the commander-in- served with his gallant friend, who had chief; nor would he call in question the shared with him the toils of the field, authority by which he had been removed, and participated in its glory and renown; nor impose restrictions on the prerogatives he appealed to them, whether, if the name of the Crown. Far was it from his inten- of that gallant officer were replaced in that tion to complain of any opinions of hon. list to which his heroic actions and valugentlemen upon this subject; nor did he able services entitled him, they would not intend, in the slightest degree, to invite a hail his return amongst them with pleasure revision of the past. His object was, to and delight. He had cautiously abstained persuade the House to do honour to itself, from entering into a detail of the conduct by shewing a sympathy with one of its of his gallant friend: he had avoided remembers, the tenor of whose life, and his counting his brilliant services; and he had public services, had reflected equal done so because he felt it was unnecessary honour upon himself and his country. to enter into a history of that which was That gallant individual was endowed in already known to the House, and because the most eminent degree with noble senti- his only object was, to give those who were ments. His errors, if they were errors, acquainted with his services, an opportuhad arisen from the excess of an ardent nity of expressing their opinions upon the mind, and from an extreme zeal in the subject. Those opinions he fondly anticiservice of his country. It was unne-pated would be of such a nature as to incessary for him to say that the military duce certain individuals, in whom the feel |